Christian Dating

8,185 Views | 69 Replies | Last: 10 mo ago by swimmerbabe11
fatherof4
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Have any of you dad's observed your adult children having difficulty in dating? I have a daughter who is educated, good job, works out, active in her church, and she has little to zero men asking her out. How common is this issue?
dermdoc
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AG
fatherof4 said:

Have any of you dad's observed your adult children having difficulty in dating? I have a daughter who is educated, good job, works out, active in her church, and she has little to zero men asking her out. How common is this issue?
Very few real men out there in my experience.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Bob Lee
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My kids aren't old enough to date or marry, but this is something I worry about for them. The stats on fecundity in the U.S. and all western European countries are grim. Replacement birth rate is 2.1. We're at a little under 1.7 and falling. The western European countries are lower than that.

Specific to your daughter, I don't know that a degree and a good job make her more desirable to men as a marriage prospect. Not that they're bad necessarily, but if she has ambitious career goals and works long hours, those aren't things men are looking for I don't think.

Other more general factors are: porn is extremely pervasive. We're an increasingly secular, even anti-religious society. A lot of men see marriage as a raw deal or a risky proposition, wherein women aren't bringing anything to the table anymore because they increasingly want to be independent and take on masculine roles in society. They want to be seen as men's equals in the workplace. So they forsake their roles in the home. And if marriage stops benefitting them personally, women stand to benefit financially from leaving. And they can leave for any reason or no reason at all because of no fault divorce, leaving men no recourse. It's that easy to effectively destroy the lives that men have built for their families.

I still do think there are good men looking for women to marry. But those men are very particular in terms of what they're after. They want selfless women. Not self interested women.
UTExan
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fatherof4 said:

Have any of you dad's observed your adult children having difficulty in dating? I have a daughter who is educated, good job, works out, active in her church, and she has little to zero men asking her out. How common is this issue?


Not being snarky, but little old church ladies are pretty good at matchmaking. They have an eye for these things.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
fatherof4
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Thanks to all for the reply's. I don't find the little old lady comment snarky at all. I appreciate it. Times are just different.
chimpanzee
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It's got to be tough out there. The dating-courtship-marriage culture of today seems completely disconnected from any kind of social tradition that seemed to define the process for the last few millennia. I have two daughters myself that will be in that scene sooner than I like to admit, and the best advice I could give is to be as out and about in the world with real people doing real things that are good and conducive to your end goals as a person.

I think the social aspects of the internet can be detrimental to many people trying to start real relationships, it's probably helpful if used appropriately, but I get the feeling that the algorithms want you to use them more selfishly.

Women have been told to be career minded and not to trust that there will be a good man around to support them and their kids, men have heard the same thing too, that they don't have to be good men or want to support their kids. The "trad" approach to things seems to get a lot of traction in certain circles on the internet, but it's not actually traditional if you didn't grow up in it and have an extended social structure that supports it. Maybe things will equilibrate back more towards more stable relationships being a primary goal of young men and women on equal terms, but who knows.

The pill has been out 50+ years now, when people could reliably separate the some of the deepest feelings of affection people can ever feel from the natural consequences (a new life!), the calculus around what people do with and for that affection was changed forever.






Win At Life
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AG
There's a problem that's not just a Christian thing, but a bit more universal. Many college educated men don't mind having a wife who is not, but college educated women will rarely accept a blue-collar working man, which dramatically reduces their dating pool by their own choice. Here is where OP comes along and says that doesn't apply to them.
chimpanzee
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Win At Life said:

There's a problem that's not just a Christian thing, but a bit more universal. Many college educated men don't mind having a wife who is not, but college educated women will rarely accept a blue-collar working man, which dramatically reduces their dating pool by their own choice. Here is where OP comes along and says that doesn't apply to them.
Hypergamy is a very interesting dynamic, seemingly across cultures. In China, their population control one child policy actually worked, and now they're facing demographic collapse. Working women there don't want to settle for a man that's equal to them, and culturally none of them have the slightest idea what living in a big family is like even if they didn't take to heart the generations of propaganda they were fed about overpopulation.

Now they're trying to encourage 3 children, and women are saying "no thanks, The People's Republic has promised to care for me, I don't need to subordinate my life to a man or a kid".
bigtruckguy3500
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As a single person myself, dealing with the current state of affairs, I've been doing a bit of a deep dive into this. Long story short, I think social media, porn, feminism, and dating apps have ruined courtship. Started a thread on the sexual revolution where we go off on some tangents that cover some issues, here's the link.

https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/3423333

But how is your daughter? How educated is she? As others pointed out, well educated men don't really care much about a woman's career or success. A millionaire would easily marry a barista from starbucks if she brought peace and stability into his life. Women tend to want a man that makes more than them and is more educated than them, or at least on their level. So an educated man's dating pool is increased, while an educated woman's is decreased. And if a man has a huge pool to select from, he's usually going to go for the one that is also the youngest and most fertile, on top of whatever else criteria he's looking for.

I'm in some FB groups for singles of various categories based on career and religion and stuff. I see profiles for men almost always looking for someone only younger. Women look for someone younger and older. Some are in their 30's and won't data man more than 4-5 years older. While most men will easily date much younger than that. There was a YouTube video I saw recently where someone was talking about a guy that was just playing the field, not dating seriously because he was I think still in grad school or something. His thought was that in 2 years he'll be making a ton more money and will be able to attract much better women that he can date seriously. Till then just having fun or something.

Are your daughter's expectations realistic? Most women over value themselves and undervalue men that don't fit their criteria. Studies show that women swipe left on over 90% of men on dating apps, while men swipe right on over 80% of women. The issue is that women are usually going to the same top 10% of men. So a lot of that top 10% have the pick of the barrel.

Others have made a lot of the points I would have said as well. Society has conditioned women to be more masculine, and men to be more feminine. Yet most women, even the more masculine or feminist types, still find traditional masculine men attractive. There just aren't as many of them.

I can post some YouTube podcasts if you're interested.
fatherof4
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I appreciate all the input. I used the term educated more to indicate the she is not lazy, that she's accomplished things. My observation is that young men, 25-30, don't act the way I did at the same age. I find it odd that guys don't walk up to a girl, introduce themselves and just talk. It's just different.
BonfireNerd04
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Bob Lee said:

A lot of men see marriage as a raw deal or a risky proposition, wherein women aren't bringing anything to the table anymore because they increasingly want to be independent and take on masculine roles in society. They want to be seen as men's equals in the workplace. So they forsake their roles in the home. And if marriage stops benefitting them personally, women stand to benefit financially from leaving. And they can leave for any reason or no reason at all because of no fault divorce, leaving men no recourse. It's that easy to effectively destroy the lives that men have built for their families.


This. It's so easy to find horror stories where the woman is the adulterous one but still gets custody of the children.
BonfireNerd04
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fatherof4 said:

I appreciate all the input. I used the term educated more to indicate the she is not lazy, that she's accomplished things. My observation is that young men, 25-30, don't act the way I did at the same age. I find it odd that guys don't walk up to a girl, introduce themselves and just talk. It's just different.


I think that at least part of this is that the weaponization of sexual harassment and sexual assault accusations has created a chilling effect that discourages many men from pursuing women. But does nothing against actual rapists, who DGAF.
Bob Lee
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AG
With respect to the level of education, everything you said is true. I think a caveat that could be helpful is that if her mentality allows her to leave behind her career if that is what her husband thought was best for their family, then it really isn't an issue. I wouldn't include it as a "resume item" on any dating site, because it's a little bit of a red flag if that's a point of pride for her. It would tell me that leaving her job would be difficult, so there's the potential for some resentment there. She would be giving up something that's important to her.

As I'm writing this though I think even the potential for a woman to out earn her man is probably detrimental. It really is sad and scary for our children. I truly believe there are a couple of generations of women who've been lied to by society about the things they'll find fulfillment and happiness in, and the truth is that there are millions of women coming to the realization that they want children in their late 30s or 40s when it's too late.

I recently went on a trip with my younger brother and his groomsmen for his bachelor party. Most of these guys are.mid to late 20s, and it was shocking and eye opening as someone who's been married 14 yrs with 5 kids, just talking with them about their dating experiences and future plans. Horrific stuff.
Bob Lee
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AG
fatherof4 said:

I appreciate all the input. I used the term educated more to indicate the she is not lazy, that she's accomplished things. My observation is that young men, 25-30, don't act the way I did at the same age. I find it odd that guys don't walk up to a girl, introduce themselves and just talk. It's just different.


A lot of men are so wounded by all the rejection they've experienced. Another poster mentioned that women tend to over value themselves relative to men. If 90% of women buy into the delusion that they're going to marry the top 10% of men, then where does that leave the other 90% of men?
Junction71
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AG
To the OP. Please send phone #.

Just kidding! I have a 36 year old son, unmarried and never has been. A&M grad and works for the county plus has his own IT business. Protestant church member, Deacon and a teacher in the church to high school students. They love him. But no social life to speak of in this small town (Junction) of 2500 people. Christian girls few and far between probably like many small towns across Texas and U.S. Most young women leave or just flat dis-interested in spiritual things. He handles his situation well but social life is frustrating. He is considering a re-location to the Dallas area where he has many of his A&M buds, who with the exception of one, are all married.
BluHorseShu
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fatherof4 said:

Have any of you dad's observed your adult children having difficulty in dating? I have a daughter who is educated, good job, works out, active in her church, and she has little to zero men asking her out. How common is this issue?
I think dating in general has changed the last few generations. I know my daughter and many of her friends their entire time in high school without going on even just harmless dates that we would approve of. So when they get to college, its all new.
Plus I think that the nature of communication is being ruined by social media/cell phones etc. People don't just meet and talk in person anymore compared to the amount of time they just text back and forth.

So I think that affects social skills of both young adults (men and women).
Howdy Dammit
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Junction71 said:

To the OP. Please send phone #.

Just kidding! I have a 36 year old son, unmarried and never has been. A&M grad and works for the county plus has his own IT business. Protestant church member, Deacon and a teacher in the church to high school students. They love him. But no social life to speak of in this small town (Junction) of 2500 people. Christian girls few and far between probably like many small towns across Texas and U.S. Most young women leave or just flat dis-interested in spiritual things. He handles his situation well but social life is frustrating. He is considering a re-location to the Dallas area where he has many of his A&M buds, who with the exception of one, are all married.

Or he can relocate to Austin for my 33 year old single Aggie sister! Haha. Times are tough for both men and women these days dating. Glad I got lucky early in life.
Martin Q. Blank
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fatherof4 said:

Have any of you dad's observed your adult children having difficulty in dating? I have a daughter who is educated, good job, works out, active in her church, and she has little to zero men asking her out. How common is this issue?
Has she tried online dating?
Win At Life
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AG
As for "Christian" dating, I've seen the most selfish, petty, bickering people in my life at churches. I'm not saying these are ax murder types. But, dang, it does seem like you're just about as likely to meet a truly "good" person who actually puts others before themselves outside of churches as you are inside churches.
dermdoc
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Win At Life said:

As for "Christian" dating, I've seen the most selfish, petty, bickering people in my life at churches. I'm not saying these are ax murder types. But, dang, it does seem like you're just about as likely to meet a truly "good" person who actually puts others before themselves outside of churches as you are inside churches.
Agree completely.
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Bob Lee
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Win At Life said:

As for "Christian" dating, I've seen the most selfish, petty, bickering people in my life at churches. I'm not saying these are ax murder types. But, dang, it does seem like you're just about as likely to meet a truly "good" person who actually puts others before themselves outside of churches as you are inside churches.


It's always hard for me to believe that Church is where people find the most petty and selfish people. A lot of people say that and I think it's bull crap. Like, the WORST people you know of are church going Christians? Give me a break. It's also a dumb reason to sour on Christianity if you believe in the teachings of the Church. You either believe what the Church believes and are cutting your nose off to spite your face, or you don't believe, and you're just taking gratuitous shots at Christians.

I think about it this way. The only place I can go where I can be relatively certain the other people there share my fundamental beliefs and values, is my parish or some diocesan or Catholic charity event or something. For me, I would not have entertained dating a non-Catholic girl, and I would not have gone past a certain point dating a girl who wasn't devout. As in, if you aren't demonstrating to me fairly early on your devotion to God, His mother, adoration, etc, then I'm moving on from you. What are the chances you're going to happen into someone like that at Wal Mart? There's no chance you'll find that person in a bar.

If you're not just out there looking for a girl who's nice and fun to hang out with, your odds are pretty bad. I think dating sites are probably the best place for anyone single and out of college who wants to be in a Christian marriage, because it's easy to vet people that way.
dermdoc
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AG
So my wife of over 30 years and I met on a blind date that was not supposed to happen. Our best friends were celebrating their first anniversary and inadvertently asked both of us out to eat. Both raised Baptist. Both Aggies. Both conservative politically.

I had fallen in love and almost married a couple of other girls and they dumped me.

God really does control this stuff.

And we raised our two daughters in a Christian environment that was definitely not legalistic. They turned out better than us. No piercings except for ears, no tattoos, no out of wedlock kids, no drug or alcohol problems. If you stress about this stuff too much the opposite of what you desire will happen.

And my son in law is a lot like me. My grand kids are awesome.

Sounds farcical,but I firmly believe all this came from God.

And my wife and I quit buying anniversary cards because we would buy the same one independent of each other.
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BonfireNerd04
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BluGorseShu said:

I think dating in general has changed the last few generations. I know my daughter and many of her friends their entire time in high school without going on even just harmless dates that we would approve of. So when they get to college, its all new.


And then they're suddenly faced with people considering "not knowing what you're doing" to be a dealbreaker, creating a catch-22 that makes it extremely difficult to get a late start in dating.
AgTDub
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AG
It's really eye opening and something I don't know if I've even gotten my mind around yet. I'm 41, divorced, 2 kids and am dating an awesome woman(37) who has been divorced 2.5 years for the past 7 months.

She tried the dating app world before meeting me and the stories she has about the potential dating pool are astonishing. We were introduced by mutual friends and just common sense things like opening doors, conversation topics, date ideas, etc… are apparently not common at all. Before our first date she was really impressed that I actually called her to set up the date instead of texting. Wtf?

I don't think I'm anything special but was raised to treat women and people in general with respect and it seems that trait alone has me in rare air. Some of the things she tells me about going on a date or two with some guy leave me in disbelief as to what guys are thinking. Nobody wants to put in any effort. Likely because most of the time they don't have to. In 2 years of online dating before she met me, nobody got past a 2nd date.

She's a keeper in my opinion (professional, 2 degrees, stable/normal family, fit)so the fact that some other guy before me either didn't notice that or didn't know how to treat a woman is bewildering to me. Seems that nobody wants to put in the effort necessary to invest in building a relationship and are generally just looking for the cheap "connection".

I'm grateful for that bc it's working out in my favor.
Azeotroper
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I have a friend with twin girls who just graduated from Oklahoma Christian University. Great girls, not supermodels but smart, funny and should be on somebody's dating list. He took them and about 15 of their friends out to supper one night and said many were gorgeous. None were seriously dating and in fact rarely were even asked out. He asked why and they said the guys are playing video games or watching porn, or who knows but the guys seem to have no testosterone. sad
bigtruckguy3500
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I think this view, while largely true, also ignores the men's perspective. I haven't verified these statistics, but I heard something like 86% of women expect a man to approach them, 50% of men are afraid of making the first move because they think they'll be seen as a creep, and 20% of young people view a man approaching a woman they don't know as harassment. These were from different studies, so not apples to apples comparison.

Given that women tend to prefer someone at a level higher than them, and tend to overvalue themselves, most women are going to reject anyone close to average or below. And while there are a plethora of reasons young women have been lied to by feminists, young men have been lied to by society about many things too. One of which is that they don't need to work super hard to compete for a woman. And also that pornography is ok, there's no harm in it, etc., or that when you're young you should just "have fun," i.e. hookup, and worry about settling down later. The results of all this is rather predictable and visible.
BonfireNerd04
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Good point. Women either need to take an equal active role in dating, or accept "harassment" as a fact of life. I know I'll get criticized for saying that, but how else would you make things fair between the sexes?
BartInLA
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I think that almost all women prefer a manly man. Not necessarily a lumberjack but a confident guy who knows how to change oil. I think this is true of many "successful" women.
Stonegateag85
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Online dating ruined all that. Back in my day you had to go to a bar and actually talk to chicks. I also caught the first few years of Bumble, Hinge and Tinder. It was the Wild West. I had no need to hit the bars or talk to girls in the wild, by Tuesday I would have dates set up Th-Sa.
barnag
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God is good. God has a plan. Getting down on your knees and surrendering everything to Him and trusting Him fully is the only answer in my humble opinion. There are so many distractions, dating apps, not any other Christian singles in the small town you might live in. So many factors, but getting plugged into a local church, becoming a member and praying for His will to be done and not ours is a great start. Also, being content and seeing singleness as a gift is a great perspective to have. And if God has a future husband for your daughter, amen. All in His good timing.

"It is not good that the man should be alone" (Genesis 2:18), but also Paul tells the unmarried and the widows that "it is good for them to remain single, as I am" (1 Corinthians 7:8). Paul, when looking at the new-covenant community, doesn't see marriage-lessness as a curse, but as a gift.
Win At Life
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AG
I get what you're saying, but I think the driver is that people in church are always acting the way they are "supposed" to act, which for many is phony. Away from the church people let their guard down and act more the way they really are, so it's easier to see who is really walking out their faith. If you sort out those who aren't, what's left probably has a higher percentage of being genuine.

I think that was the case, at least, maybe 20 years ago or more when there was more social and family pressure to attend church for those who were not genuine. A lot of that pressure has evaporated about 20+ years ago, which is reflected in falling attendance. But those there these days are likely more genuine, so maybe the game has changed.
dermdoc
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AG
barnag said:

God is good. God has a plan. Getting down on your knees and surrendering everything to Him and trusting Him fully is the only answer in my humble opinion. There are so many distractions, dating apps, not any other Christian singles in the small town you might live in. So many factors, but getting plugged into a local church, becoming a member and praying for His will to be done and not ours is a great start. Also, being content and seeing singleness as a gift is a great perspective to have. And if God has a future husband for your daughter, amen. All in His good timing.

"It is not good that the man should be alone" (Genesis 2:18), but also Paul tells the unmarried and the widows that "it is good for them to remain single, as I am" (1 Corinthians 7:8). Paul, when looking at the new-covenant community, doesn't see marriage-lessness as a curse, but as a gift.
Amen. I firmly believe God has the perfect person picked out for everyone if you will allow His will to be done.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Howdy Dammit
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AG
dermdoc said:

barnag said:

God is good. God has a plan. Getting down on your knees and surrendering everything to Him and trusting Him fully is the only answer in my humble opinion. There are so many distractions, dating apps, not any other Christian singles in the small town you might live in. So many factors, but getting plugged into a local church, becoming a member and praying for His will to be done and not ours is a great start. Also, being content and seeing singleness as a gift is a great perspective to have. And if God has a future husband for your daughter, amen. All in His good timing.

"It is not good that the man should be alone" (Genesis 2:18), but also Paul tells the unmarried and the widows that "it is good for them to remain single, as I am" (1 Corinthians 7:8). Paul, when looking at the new-covenant community, doesn't see marriage-lessness as a curse, but as a gift.
Amen. I firmly believe God has the perfect person picked out for everyone if you will allow His will to be done.

Well I think there are tons of perfect people for everyone and most just don't want to put in the effort. Marriage is a choice. Love is a choice. Disney and hallmark say otherwise. But I truly believe 90% of marriages can succeed by choice. And the same 90% can fail by choice. I love my wife to death and am so happy I found her, but I think even if I had an arranged married it would be just as successful as long as both parties have a "don't quit" mentality. I'm not saying to not pray for the right person, I just think there are way more "right ones" than people think.
JoCoAg09
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AG
This makes me think of a comedy song (excerpts below):


Quote:

Our love is one in a million, you couldn't buy it at any price
But of the nine point nine nine nine
Hundred thousand other possible loves
Statistically some of them would be equally nice

Quote:

And look I'm not undervaluing what we've got when I say
That given the role chaos inevitably plays
And the inherently flawed notion of fate
It's abstruse to deduce I found my soul mate at the age of 17
It's just mathematically unlikely that at a university in Perth
I happened to stumble on the one girl on earth
Definitively designed for me
And if I may conjecture a further objection
Love is nothing to do with destined perfection
The connection is strengthened; the affection simply grows over time

Quote:

But I'm just saying I don't think you're special
I mean I think you're special but you fall within a bell curve

Quote:

But with all my heart and all my mind I know one thing is true
I have just one life and just one love and my love that love is you
And if it wasn't for you, darling you
I really think that I would probably have somebody else
Stonegateag85
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This is great advice. People often mistake it for "settling". The onus is on you to foster a successful relationship and family.
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