kurt vonnegut said:AGC said:
Dunno if I'm entirely with you. People reject messages all the time. You certainly wouldn't be an exception, nor does your rejection reflect on God the way you seem to believe (surely an all powerful God could simply grant me this one secret thing that only I know and can't really articulate fully - which I don't feel an unfair description because I think words fail all of us in these encounters and expressing what they need to be). That is ultimately where you land in all of this based on what you post: it's His obligation to reach you in your way and if you don't perceive it or accept it, well, it's still going to be His fault since He's the all powerful one.
That's not such a logical conclusion as it is avoiding agency in the matter and washing your hands of any action. In this scenario you could deny any and every proof and grant yourself a clean conscience, even if you decided to do so spitefully, say due to a relative's painful death or other life experience. You could decide He must give you a billion dollars. It's hostage taking really, and not all that thoughtful in the end.
And if you are wrong about the Christian God, does everything above not also apply to you? I don't know if you consider any possibility that you are wrong in a meaningful way. Maybe you will respond to this by saying something like "I'm sure that I'm wrong about some specifics about God and there is a lot I don't know or understand." But, sometimes statements like this can be genuine but often times I think that they are a false modesty.
I read your second paragraph as a rejection of the idea that my beliefs and values are honest and sincere. My first reaction to it is "Well, F U too." I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but I don't know why you go through all this effort discussing this topic with me if you think this little of me.
And yes, If God wishes for us to have a certain message, I believe its on Him to deliver it. And its on us to listen. The problem with listening though, is that when there is nothing to listen to, we all hear what we want to hear.
A father with 10 young children tries to teach his children the rules of the house. So, he tells one child and none of the others. Eventually 2 of the other children adopt the rules and 7 decide that the others are making it up and if Dad wants us to follow certain rules, he could just tell us all. And you chalk this up to the 7 children intentionally disobeyed their father instead of a grossly negligent father that failed to provide remotely clear direction to anyone other than his one 'chosen' son. Do you really feel it is unreasonable for a child to expect clear communication from their father?
Yes, it's on the father to communicate. When 70% of your creation does not understand what you want them to understand, then you have failed to communicate. Don't make this about me. I'm only one of 5.5 billion here.
I think when you listen and set your own terms for what is acceptable, you're not truly listening or listening in good faith. You wouldn't talk to your wife that way: "you didn't tell me you wanted affirmation and affection, you just asked if I thought the dress made you look fat" (I hope - this is somewhat an attempt at levity). That's been part of your argument here: it has to be said in an unquestionable way (that is entirely subjective and dependent on you). It makes you the most important person in a conversation and relationship which is incompatible with our God. As Christians we view talking to God as something done with humility; we bow our heads, we kneel, etc. We come before God, not saying we have this thing to offer that He really covets and thus should give us what we want, but asking what He wants.
Rather than delve into the parenting analogy, let's examine the Bible for those who see miracles but never come back. Christ feeding the masses. Healing the lepers. It's constant - people treat God like an exchange and leave when they get what they want. You have more exposure to God than the average person on earth and demand yet more while trying to put yourself in the same shoes as them (last paragraph - "don't make this about me"). You're not really comparable to an undiscovered Amazonian people group.
I appreciate your restraint in not outright calling God evil but some of that seems implied in saying that you're just here standing up for the 5.5 billion. What an evil God, that so many don't believe. I assume you think they're all going to hell or hopeless without a Bible. I've not posited any of that but again I think you're speaking out of turn when you speak for them to say that they don't know God. You haven't met them and it's somewhat condescending to think that if you don't believe or haven't heard, that they can possibly have either or they haven't had a fair shake.
