The Israelites who converted to Orthodox Christianity and make up the Orthodox (and Catholic) Church in the middle east are the descendants of the Israelites.
This gives interesting genetic backing to the idea of Christian liturgy being a direct continuation of Temple Worship in Israel.
These Christians, who have been continually persecuted by "Israel", are the last living community of the early church. They were Israelites who were converted by the Apostles.
European Jews, meanwhile, are genetically further from Israel than Cappadocian Greek Christians.
This is interesting and a little amusing to me, because Christianitry places no religious importance on bloodlines at all, and I can't think of another world religion that places as much emphasis as Judaism.
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This is interesting and a little amusing to me, because Christianitry places no religious importance on bloodlines at all, and I can't think of another world religion that places as much emphasis as Judaism.
Yes, great point.
Anyone can become Christian, whereas there needs to be a proven genetic or familial connection to be Jewish.
The irony here is that the genetic descendants of the Israelites are being persecuted by a modern nation state called Israel because they are not Jewish.
This is interesting and a little amusing to me, because Christianitry places no religious importance on bloodlines at all, and I can't think of another world religion that places as much emphasis as Judaism.
Yes, great point.
Anyone can become Christian, whereas there needs to be a proven genetic or familial connection to be Jewish..
What???? Anyone can convert to most mainstream Jewish religions. Nobody can convert there racial/genetic bloodline.
What are you trying to say? It looks like you are mixing religion with ethnicity.
The irony here is that the genetic descendants of the Israelites are being persecuted by a modern nation state called Israel because they are not Jewish.
Israel is NOT a racial supremacist state that persecutes people "because they are not Jewish".
They do tend do dislike religious groups that try to convert Jews, and they REALLY dislike the ones that try to kill Jews, but that's understandable.
I don't think Paul, whose mission was to preach to the gentiles, would be real impressed with such modern genetic analyses.
The Mediterranean (including Italy/Rome/Greece etc.) has been a genetic melting pot for many millennia, predating written history/books/scripture. Some arab sub-populations today are very worryingly inbred, but that is a separate matter/unrelated problem.
This gives interesting genetic backing to the idea of Christian liturgy being a direct continuation of Temple Worship in Israel.
Huh? 1+1 = Cake, apparently.
You have a history of centuries of people being forcibly removed from the region, forcible conversions by empires from the Byzantines to the Ottomans, etc… There's zero evidence that these Christians have been so since the first century, let alone that their liturgy is connected to the second temple because of their genetics.
So it is ok to kill them since they are not God's chosen people?
Deut 7 "When the Lord your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, 2 and when the Lord your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. 3 Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. 4 For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you. 5 But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.6 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
"The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the Lord brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments; 10 but repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face. 11 Therefore, you shall keep the commandment and the statutes and the judgments which I am commanding you today, to do them.
Deut: 12:31 31 You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
I don't think Paul, whose mission was to preach to the gentiles, would be real impressed with such modern genetic analyses.
The Mediterranean (including Italy/Rome/Greece etc.) has been a genetic melting pot for many millennia, predating written history/books/scripture. Some arab sub-populations today are very worryingly inbred, but that is a separate matter/unrelated problem.
I think the issue here is that many Americans believe that Zionists have a right to displace Palestinians because that is the home of Israel and the Israelites.
The analogy is grandchildren returning to their grandfather's estate and kicking out the squatters.
The issue in this case is that it is the grandchildren themselves being kicked out.
I don't think Paul, whose mission was to preach to the gentiles, would be real impressed with such modern genetic analyses.
The Mediterranean (including Italy/Rome/Greece etc.) has been a genetic melting pot for many millennia, predating written history/books/scripture. Some arab sub-populations today are very worryingly inbred, but that is a separate matter/unrelated problem.
I think the issue here is that many Americans believe that Zionists have a right to displace Palestinians because that is the home of Israel and the Israelites.
The analogy is grandchildren returning to their grandfather's estate and kicking out the squatters.
The issue in this case is that it is the grandchildren themselves being kicked out.
I don't understand that at all. I don't think many Americans, let alone Christian's, feel the largely ashkenazy population of israel are entitled to land due to their genetics.
I don't think Paul, whose mission was to preach to the gentiles, would be real impressed with such modern genetic analyses.
The Mediterranean (including Italy/Rome/Greece etc.) has been a genetic melting pot for many millennia, predating written history/books/scripture. Some arab sub-populations today are very worryingly inbred, but that is a separate matter/unrelated problem.
I think the issue here is that many Americans believe that Zionists have a right to displace Palestinians because that is the home of Israel and the Israelites.
The analogy is grandchildren returning to their grandfather's estate and kicking out the squatters.
The issue in this case is that it is the grandchildren themselves being kicked out.
I don't understand that at all. I don't think many Americans, let alone Christian's, feel the largely ashkenazy population of israel are entitled to land due to their genetics.
Really?
The argument that an apartheid state is Israel is different from South Africa/Rhodesia/etc hinges on the idea that they are returning to their rightful homeland.
This leads to two different conclusions: 1. In the case of Africa, the native Africans deserve have a say in governance and stay. 2. In the case of Palestine, the native Palestinians do not deserve to have a say in governance and need to leave.
This makes sense if you view the Palestinians as a later arrival after the Israelites were there.
The Israelites who converted to Orthodox Christianity and make up the Orthodox (and Catholic) Church in the middle east are the descendants of the Israelites.
This gives interesting genetic backing to the idea of Christian liturgy being a direct continuation of Temple Worship in Israel.
These Christians, who have been continually persecuted by "Israel", are the last living community of the early church. They were Israelites who were converted by the Apostles.
European Jews, meanwhile, are genetically further from Israel than Cappadocian Greek Christians.
Yep. When Christianity was spreading in Israel in the first century, Jewish Christians took to heart the prophecy of the destruction of the temple, which occurred in 70-73 AD.
When the Romans surrounded them and then left the first time, the Christians got out of there because they remembered the prophecy and that the moon would turn to blood (apocalyptic language). Then the Romans came back and slaughtered Israel.
I don't think Paul, whose mission was to preach to the gentiles, would be real impressed with such modern genetic analyses.
The Mediterranean (including Italy/Rome/Greece etc.) has been a genetic melting pot for many millennia, predating written history/books/scripture. Some arab sub-populations today are very worryingly inbred, but that is a separate matter/unrelated problem.
I think the issue here is that many Americans believe that Zionists have a right to displace Palestinians because that is the home of Israel and the Israelites.
The analogy is grandchildren returning to their grandfather's estate and kicking out the squatters.
The issue in this case is that it is the grandchildren themselves being kicked out.
I don't understand that at all. I don't think many Americans, let alone Christian's, feel the largely ashkenazy population of israel are entitled to land due to their genetics.
Really?
The argument that an apartheid state is Israel is different from South Africa/Rhodesia/etc hinges on the idea that they are returning to their rightful homeland.
This leads to two different conclusions: 1. In the case of Africa, the native Africans deserve have a say in governance and stay. 2. In the case of Palestine, the native Palestinians do not deserve to have a say in governance and need to leave.
This makes sense if you view the Palestinians as a later arrival after the Israelites were there.
Genetically the Semitic people are all basically the same. Religiously (as a christian), I don't think the particular genetics matter (Christian's being grafted onto God's promise to Israel in a 'new covenant' etc.).
As a 'tribe' or 'group' (pick a noun) of people I think Jews have a long history in Jerusalem/Israel and as well a history of persecution throughout both Europe and the Middle East. The people who have not been victims since WW2 are the Palestinians and their arab cousins, who have benefited from natural resources and huge amounts of aid since the 40's on the basis of their original population/situation.
I know some on this forum want to just adhere to what I consider a myth which is that jews came and forcibly took land ("nakba") from Arabs but I don't subscribe to that. Once established, morally and legally, I think it has a right to exist and persist. The actual genetics of the jews there play no role in that analyses, to me.
So it is ok to kill them since they are not God's chosen people?
Deut 7 "When the Lord your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, 2 and when the Lord your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. 3 Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. 4 For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you. 5 But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.6 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
"The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the Lord brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments; 10 but repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face. 11 Therefore, you shall keep the commandment and the statutes and the judgments which I am commanding you today, to do them.
Deut: 12:31 31 You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
The physical land aspect to the covenant is now applied to Christians in the physical New Heavens and New Earth or also called the New Jerusalem.
I support the existence of the nation state of Israel. What's done is done and is their home. I support them because of our roots. And I support them in their efforts to bring stability in the Middle East and Islam. Sometimes you have to show strength for your own survival.
