I pray all people would come to know the saving grace of the Lord.

And the only "duty" a Christian has, in my opinion, is to have complete faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sins and and an abundant life here and eternal life.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I pray all people would come to know the saving grace of the Lord.

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I knew you were a Calvinist.

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Nope. I believe people have a choice to accept or reject God's grace. Resistible grace.


Calvinists, if they are truly Calvinists, do not.

I prefer being called a Christian.

And yes I believe Calvinists are Christians.

I do not believe in double pre destination and have a completely different view of free will.

I said exactly what I believe.

God's grace is available to all.

We can choose to accept it or reject it.

What is difficult to understand in those words?

The difficulty lies in why you pray.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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The difficulty lies in why you pray.

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Please explain.

I pray all people would come to know the saving grace of the Lord.

Are you actually petitioning God? Or is it simply letting him know your thoughts and desires that ultimately he has as much control over it as you do?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I pray all people would come to know the saving grace of the Lord.

Are you actually petitioning God? Or is it simply letting him know your thoughts and desires that ultimately he has as much control over it as you do?

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I just want all people to come to know the good news of the Gospel. And I am asking God to make that possible.

And I believe he can. Scripture says God desires to save all men and have them come to a knowledge of the truth.

I do not understand your point.

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I just want all people to come to know the good news of the Gospel. And I am asking God to make that possible.

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How exactly? Simply merging your two sentences above make it sound like you are asking God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I just want all people to come to know the good news of the Gospel. And I am asking God to make that possible.

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How exactly? Simply merging your two sentences above make it sound like you are asking God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel.

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Y'all are making this a typical legalism debate; praying God acts to save all people isn't the same thing as believing He will ultimately do so, even if against their own will.

It's not a doctrinal belief/confession in universal salvation (or total depravity/limited atonement/prevenient grace etc), it's a prayer for God to act as He chooses and that people accept his mercy/message/salvation.

LOL.

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it's a prayer for God to act as He chooses

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What does this act look like?

Philippians 4:6

Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, in prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

Seems pretty straightforward to me

Except it doesn't answer my question.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Except it doesn't answer my question.

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I am petitioning God just like we are instructed to

So far your petition is for God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel. How exactly?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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So far your petition is for God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel. How exactly?

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Well, we do know that Chick tracts didn't work. What they spread wasn't really 'good' news though. Depressing mostly.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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So far your petition is for God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel. How exactly?

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I am not God. That is why I am asking Him. His ways are above my ways.

I am having a hard time figuring out where you are going with this.

So I am going to bow out.

God bless.

BluHorseShu said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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So far your petition is for God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel. How exactly?

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Well, we do know that Chick tracts didn't work. What they spread wasn't really 'good' news though. Depressing mostly.

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Of course not. Gospel literally means good news. Turn or burn stuff is not the Gospel in my opinion.

Somebody preaches condemnation or sinners in the hands of an angry God, I am out of there. Along with my family.

And my kids have done wonderful only one spanking each I believe.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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So far your petition is for God to make all people come to know the good news of the Gospel. How exactly?

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I am not God. That is why I am asking Him. His ways are above my ways.

I am having a hard time figuring out where you are going with this.

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I already stated it above. God is sovereign over a man's heart and he hears your petitions to change their hearts. There's no problem praying him to do that...because he can.

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I already stated it above. God is sovereign over a man's heart and he hears your petitions to change their hearts. There's no problem praying him to do that...because he can.

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I don't understand at all what your issue is with what he said then. Maybe he is praying 'wrongly' to ask God to help everyone, in your judgment or something. But even if so, according to your own confessional faith standards, so what?

I disagree with non-Calvinist's about a lot, but we should probably all (if/as Christian's) accept and appreciate people praying for God to save/redeem others. Again, there's no real need to make this a legalistic discourse/debate every time it comes up, imho.

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Maybe he is praying 'wrongly' to ask God to help everyone, in your judgment or something.

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Not at all. I explicitly said there's no problem praying for him to do that. I'm glad he thinks it's within God's ability and will to change men's hearts. It just goes against his own confessional faith standards. That somehow God doing that removes man's choice in the matter. I don't believe it does.

Man, you guys can argue about anything!!

Dear Lord, please bring this thread to an end.

Buford T. Justice said:

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Dear Lord, please bring this thread to an end.

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Amen.

Another request to control people. You'd be better off praying to staff instead.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Another request to control people. You'd be better off praying to staff instead.

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If I did I am sure you would say I am praying wrong.

Shalom my brother in Christ.

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If I did I am sure you would say I am praying wrong.

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I think your prayers are consistent with a Calvinist. How could they be wrong?

Martin Q. Blank said:

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If I did I am sure you would say I am praying wrong.

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I think your prayers are consistent with a Calvinist. How could they be wrong?

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Consistent with a Christian prayer who does not believe in double predestination, total depravity, limited atonement, etc.

dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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If I did I am sure you would say I am praying wrong.

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I think your prayers are consistent with a Calvinist. How could they be wrong?

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Consistent with a Christian prayer who does not believe in double predestination, total depravity, limited atonement, etc.

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But that God can and does change hearts.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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If I did I am sure you would say I am praying wrong.

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I think your prayers are consistent with a Calvinist. How could they be wrong?

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Consistent with a Christian prayer who does not believe in double predestination, total depravity, limited atonement, etc.

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But that God can and does change hearts.

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With the consent of the person whose heart is changed.

Grace can be rejected in my opinion. God is not a bully.

Why are you trying to redefine my beliefs?