I've been thinking about this for several hours now, and would like to hear your thoughts.
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Is Hamas Satan in Human Form?
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Last: 1 yr ago by Redstone
Buford T. Justice said:
I've been thinking about this for several hours now, and would like to hear your thoughts.
The are demonically influenced for sure. Maybe some are even possessed.
Anyone in unrepentant sin is influenced by satan and his angels or their flesh.
"I have lots of thoughts"
*Doesn't share them*
"Tell me your thoughts"
*Doesn't share them*
"Tell me your thoughts"
Quote:
Is Hamas Satan in Human Form?
No.
yah, like an incarnation?747Ag said:Quote:
Is Hamas Satan in Human Form?
No.
Hang on…
The purpose of my asking is related to my developing faith. I am a Christian, and within the past couple of years have began to read scripture on a daily basis. With that said, there is a lot that I have yet to learn, and asked the question to learn if that is even possible.
I am not trolling or trying to start an argument. Just wanted to get the thoughts of others that are more educated in Christianity than myself.
The purpose of my asking is related to my developing faith. I am a Christian, and within the past couple of years have began to read scripture on a daily basis. With that said, there is a lot that I have yet to learn, and asked the question to learn if that is even possible.
I am not trolling or trying to start an argument. Just wanted to get the thoughts of others that are more educated in Christianity than myself.
These kinds of discussions work a lot better if you just tell us what you're thinking. It's perfectly fine if those thoughts are new or undeveloped.
No, I don't think Hamas is Satan in human form, if I understand the way you are asking it. However, that does not discount the possibility Satan or demonic influence is involved in the hearts of those men and women.
Although, man is inherently sinful and has the capability to do evil all on his own. He does not need to be demon possessed to transgress against God. The answer to your question is we don't know and will never know in this lifetime.
Although, man is inherently sinful and has the capability to do evil all on his own. He does not need to be demon possessed to transgress against God. The answer to your question is we don't know and will never know in this lifetime.
In a word, no. Is Lucifer influencing the evil wrought upon the innocent women and children? Indeed.
The idea that Lucifer (Satan is a title) can take human form is like an apple becoming a whale. There are some things in common, but their nature is completely different. First, Lucifer is a angel. What some great minds have written about angels is that they are pure spirit, where as humans are embodied spirits. For Satan to take human form would require a supernatural intervention beyond Lucifer's capabilities- God would have to grant this act.
God did send a couple of angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. We also read in the Revelations that there are countless angels around the throne of God, 4 holding back the winds of judgement, 7 sounding the trumpets, and many more doing the WILL of God.
I do not think that Satan or any angel is doing the will of God in Gaza right now. That is man's doing and God is permitting for a greater good no doubt.
St. Paul has some insight, when he writes:
"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (Ephesians 2:1-3)"
It has been written that God gave certain power to the angels as guardians of his creation. This is why Jesus recognized the devil as a prince of this world. That along with a superior intellect to ours, gives the devil an advantage over our finite mind and frail body. The devil does the most damage when we think there is no God, no devil, and that we can know right from wrong without God's grace. "See how good that fruit//land/money looks?" the whisper (in the air) comes to our ears. "Take it! It's yours after all." And to top it all off- "God commands it!"
Wasn't it Barabbas that killed a Roman guard in the uprising that the people choose to set free instead of Jesus? Surely Barabbas was not some angel sent by God- instead he had it in his mind that the messiah was coming to kick Roman ass and make the Jews rulers of the world! That is not what Jesus was preaching about, but it was what the devil was spinning.
The idea that Lucifer (Satan is a title) can take human form is like an apple becoming a whale. There are some things in common, but their nature is completely different. First, Lucifer is a angel. What some great minds have written about angels is that they are pure spirit, where as humans are embodied spirits. For Satan to take human form would require a supernatural intervention beyond Lucifer's capabilities- God would have to grant this act.
God did send a couple of angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. We also read in the Revelations that there are countless angels around the throne of God, 4 holding back the winds of judgement, 7 sounding the trumpets, and many more doing the WILL of God.
I do not think that Satan or any angel is doing the will of God in Gaza right now. That is man's doing and God is permitting for a greater good no doubt.
St. Paul has some insight, when he writes:
"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (Ephesians 2:1-3)"
It has been written that God gave certain power to the angels as guardians of his creation. This is why Jesus recognized the devil as a prince of this world. That along with a superior intellect to ours, gives the devil an advantage over our finite mind and frail body. The devil does the most damage when we think there is no God, no devil, and that we can know right from wrong without God's grace. "See how good that fruit//land/money looks?" the whisper (in the air) comes to our ears. "Take it! It's yours after all." And to top it all off- "God commands it!"
Wasn't it Barabbas that killed a Roman guard in the uprising that the people choose to set free instead of Jesus? Surely Barabbas was not some angel sent by God- instead he had it in his mind that the messiah was coming to kick Roman ass and make the Jews rulers of the world! That is not what Jesus was preaching about, but it was what the devil was spinning.
How do you tell whether an idea comes from the Satan or from a human being's evil inclination? Is there even a distinction to be made?
While Satan is incredibly powerful and incredibly influential, and he has legions of demons in his control, I think it's important to know that he doesn't share the attributes of God, namely, he isn't omnipresent (all present, or everywhere at once) and so he can't be Hamas itself.
He could certainly influence Hamas and it's members, and I think he does through his demons, etc. He could certainly use Hamas to further his goals.
At least that's my understanding of Satan. I find Christians often erroneously ascribe attributes to him that are more God-like. We often blame Satan for desires of the flesh, for example
He could certainly influence Hamas and it's members, and I think he does through his demons, etc. He could certainly use Hamas to further his goals.
At least that's my understanding of Satan. I find Christians often erroneously ascribe attributes to him that are more God-like. We often blame Satan for desires of the flesh, for example
Mm.. I think you need to dig a little deeper into "what is a spirit" here. Omnipresence is a strange one, because Satan - or any demon, for that matter - lacks a physical body. "Presence" is kind of a strange attribute to examine in that regard.
Spirits are the organizing principles which animate bodies, which make them alive. Hamas absolutely could be a body animated by a single spirit. In fact many would probably describe them that way intuitively. Less the sprit of Islam, more a spirit of hatred and violence.
I think when you start talking about the agency of the animating spirit is where things get more interesting.
Spirits are the organizing principles which animate bodies, which make them alive. Hamas absolutely could be a body animated by a single spirit. In fact many would probably describe them that way intuitively. Less the sprit of Islam, more a spirit of hatred and violence.
I think when you start talking about the agency of the animating spirit is where things get more interesting.
In Revelation, Satan = the dragon and Hamas (and countless other evil groups) = the beast. They are distinct even if they work together.
Satan doesn't exist, so no.
I am enjoying reading each of your responses, and this has been an educational and eye opening conversation. Please do not let my response slow it down. With that said, your response resonated with me, as your thought brought me back to my question, and maybe jars loose a little more context behind it.
Is Satan using Hamas and the land, i.e., Palestine to diametrically oppose God? I.e., Christianity and Israel?
Is Satan using Hamas and the land, i.e., Palestine to diametrically oppose God? I.e., Christianity and Israel?
Satan wants to destroy humans. He uses people from all backgrounds to do that. God wants all humans to live - that's what the scriptures say.
People can become animated by a spirit the same way your body is a sum of smaller parts animated by your spirit. The Holy Spirit animates the Church and makes it alive in Christ, makes it His Body comprised of many Christians with Him as the head.
I don't know about just Satan, or just Hamas, but I think when we see any group of people become consumed with things opposed to God - war, hatred, greed, gluttony, pleasure - their collective actions are being animated by evil. That's why St Paul says our enemies are not flesh and blood, but the powers which drive these behaviors. When you look at history and wonder, how could a society ever become that way, that's how. Those are our brothers who have fallen. We should pray for their salvation.
People can become animated by a spirit the same way your body is a sum of smaller parts animated by your spirit. The Holy Spirit animates the Church and makes it alive in Christ, makes it His Body comprised of many Christians with Him as the head.
I don't know about just Satan, or just Hamas, but I think when we see any group of people become consumed with things opposed to God - war, hatred, greed, gluttony, pleasure - their collective actions are being animated by evil. That's why St Paul says our enemies are not flesh and blood, but the powers which drive these behaviors. When you look at history and wonder, how could a society ever become that way, that's how. Those are our brothers who have fallen. We should pray for their salvation.
Picking up on what I believe Zobel is saying, I recently listened to a conversation on NPR between a Rabbi and an Imam:
On what they want to say to each other:
This is how evil works in the hearts of man -Hamas really believes they are acting out the will of God. So, yes I believe that Satan is influencing the evil being wrought upon the Israelis, but they are not physical manifestations of fallen angels.
On what they want to say to each other:
Quote:
Rabbi Brous: I will say to you, Imam Herbert, I'm holding you and your community, your beloveds in your mosque and their families in Gaza in my heart and in my prayers. And I know that there is a better way for humanity that we can walk together toward peace, dignity and justice for all people. And I really appreciate you as a partner in that work. Thank you.
Imam Herbert: I share the same sentiment. For me, I think one of the most profound things that I heard you say that really, really stuck out to me, rabbi, was you mentioned that the real enemies of this war are not the Jews or the Israelis or the Palestinians. It's those people who have decided that violence is the only answer. And that really, really stuck with me. That this shows that there actually is a way to have a conversation.
This is how evil works in the hearts of man -Hamas really believes they are acting out the will of God. So, yes I believe that Satan is influencing the evil being wrought upon the Israelis, but they are not physical manifestations of fallen angels.
Buford T. Justice said:
Is Satan using Hamas and the land, i.e., Palestine to diametrically oppose God? I.e., Christianity and Israel?
Maybe, although this is secondary in importance. God is in control. The reign of Satan in this world is only as much as God allows.
Buford T. Justice said:
I've been thinking about this for several hours now, and would like to hear your thoughts.
That nicely sums it up.
Does God exist?schmendeler said:
Satan doesn't exist, so no.
Not god as described in the bible. Could a god exist? Possibly.
Been thinking about this...and I'm not sure of the answer, HOWEVER....I have had hummus that had a kind of satin texture to it.Buford T. Justice said:
I've been thinking about this for several hours now, and would like to hear your thoughts.
Then it's possible a god could not exist, in your mind?schmendeler said:
Not god as described in the bible. Could a god exist? Possibly.
If so, then one must reconcile the existence of the universe and all things. Is it possible in the natural world for something to create itself from nothing?
It's an interesting mystery. But i don't find the supernatural explanation compelling. You've just moved the mystery up a step.
Group psychology regarding these things is fascinating and intersects very easily with a lot of religious thought. For example, Hamas is an organization that wants to destroy the state of Israel. It grows by indoctrinating children and others into fighting for it. It is somewhat self perpetuating. But really any organization can be the same way or sometimes not even organizations. Mob violence, social movements, revolutions, and asset bubbles all seem to have a life of their own. The people participating are sometimes just participating to be participants, and they can't really give a good reason. It's certainly not a big stretch to give these things a sort of agency that is at best guided by it's leaders but often can be the other way around. From there it's a small step to talking about some spirit or another causing the phenomenon. You don't have to make a religious connection in these instances, but it can sometimes make more sense than otherwise.
That made sense in my head, but I'm not sure it came out that way
That made sense in my head, but I'm not sure it came out that way
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This whole Middle East dust up is really doing a number on evangelicals
How so?
Yukon Cornelius said:
How so?
Conflating biblical discussions of Israel with the modern nation of Israel, claiming Hamas is the incarnation of Satan, claiming Israel needs to destroy Hamas to fulfill some "fig leaf prophecy" which will usher in the 2nd coming of Christ.
I for one have never understood the absolute slavish worship that it seems evangelicals specifically and Protestants generally have for Israel.
Hamas is a reflection of islam.
The people of Gaza, including the political/military structure of Hamas, reflect the history and religion of islam.
It's just that simple.
Muhammad's message left no room for ambiguity for Muslims: it wasn't just about governing a city, seizing a state, or settling for a single country. His vision extended far beyond these boundaries, and he unequivocally articulated their mission to transcend continents. Muhammad's…
— Amy Mek (@AmyMek) October 30, 2023
The people of Gaza, including the political/military structure of Hamas, reflect the history and religion of islam.
Life in Gaza, September 2023, just days before Hamas' massacre.
— Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) October 30, 2023
Is this the “open air prison” they're talking about?pic.twitter.com/GRPH5RzfIA
This is the reason why Israel is hesitant to free Palestine. This death cult believes in the total subjugation of everyone. It doesn't rest until it has taken over everything in its path. They don't even bother to hide it👇🏽👇🏽 https://t.co/a9PEJxTell
— Harris Sultan (@TheHarrisSultan) October 30, 2023
It's just that simple.
Terminus Est said:Yukon Cornelius said:
How so?
Conflating biblical discussions of Israel with the modern nation of Israel, claiming Hamas is the incarnation of Satan, claiming Israel needs to destroy Hamas to fulfill some "fig leaf prophecy" which will usher in the 2nd coming of Christ.
I for one have never understood the absolute slavish worship that it seems evangelicals specifically and Protestants generally have for Israel.
Seems to derive from traditions of men built ontop of and preceding Biblical truths that are causing the issues.
From a Catholic view, some loosely connected thoughts:
- Fr. Chad Ripperger, an exorcist, says that a) Lucifer (angelic name and the entity retains angelic nature, with intellect, talents, and "job" in the inverse), b) Satan (capitalized, the top ranked "accuser"), and c) Beezelbub are the same fallen entity.
The "personality" was shattered after the sin of rejecting God's charge, in a fit of pride. 3 is "triune" in the same way God punished demons by forcing them to remember their fall.
- there are levels of influence: temptation, harassment, possession, "perfect" possession, via Fr. Gabrielle Amorth (get the books, movie is awful) and Fr. Malachi Martin among other exorcists
- IMO both Zionists (nationalism with an explicit rejection of the Messianic claim of the Nazarene) AND Islamist movements (funded for years by Likud coalition as a way to deflect 2 states, btw) …
In rejecting Christ, open the door to undue influence of the demonic at a bare minimum
- Fr. Chad Ripperger, an exorcist, says that a) Lucifer (angelic name and the entity retains angelic nature, with intellect, talents, and "job" in the inverse), b) Satan (capitalized, the top ranked "accuser"), and c) Beezelbub are the same fallen entity.
The "personality" was shattered after the sin of rejecting God's charge, in a fit of pride. 3 is "triune" in the same way God punished demons by forcing them to remember their fall.
- there are levels of influence: temptation, harassment, possession, "perfect" possession, via Fr. Gabrielle Amorth (get the books, movie is awful) and Fr. Malachi Martin among other exorcists
- IMO both Zionists (nationalism with an explicit rejection of the Messianic claim of the Nazarene) AND Islamist movements (funded for years by Likud coalition as a way to deflect 2 states, btw) …
In rejecting Christ, open the door to undue influence of the demonic at a bare minimum
Hagee et al. (Glenn Beck and many others, but J.H. is really bad) do massive harm:
The people of the Holy Cross are the people Israel.
NEVER a nation-state, never a kingdom of this world.
Joseph, Abraham, Moses and Joshua - they were Trinitarians as the Apostolic (Catholic - Orthodox) are now. Worshipping Logos before Logos Incarnate. We have the fulfillment of the Mosaic Covenant: temple (body), priests, Sacrifice, manna (Eucharist), Ark (St. Mary).
Exactly as Christ predicted, Titus smashed Herod's Temple in 70 AD.
Christians are Israel. Let's pray both some members of both Hamas and Zionist - Likud coalition come to recognize Christ as the only way out of this mess - a spiritual escape.
The people of the Holy Cross are the people Israel.
NEVER a nation-state, never a kingdom of this world.
Joseph, Abraham, Moses and Joshua - they were Trinitarians as the Apostolic (Catholic - Orthodox) are now. Worshipping Logos before Logos Incarnate. We have the fulfillment of the Mosaic Covenant: temple (body), priests, Sacrifice, manna (Eucharist), Ark (St. Mary).
Exactly as Christ predicted, Titus smashed Herod's Temple in 70 AD.
Christians are Israel. Let's pray both some members of both Hamas and Zionist - Likud coalition come to recognize Christ as the only way out of this mess - a spiritual escape.
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