Don't expect peace..

"This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed as a wild donkey! He will raise his fist against everyone, and everyone will be against him. Yes, he will live in open hostility against all his relatives."

Of course this does not apply to all but, the question is who are the decedents' and what is the driving force

Serotonin said:

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Negative ghost rider.

Modern Jews are not ancient Israel and are not a monolith.

Their views on Palestine are as diverse as the views of 'white' Americans on any issue here like abortion or MAGA.

63% of American Jews believe in a peaceful two-state solution, higher than the rest of the U.S. adult population.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/

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It's says last days, and are you saying it's impossible for God to compel all Jews in their hearts to return?

agAngeldad said:

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Don't expect peace..

"This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed as a wild donkey! He will raise his fist against everyone, and everyone will be against him. Yes, he will live in open hostility against all his relatives."

Of course this does not apply to all but, the question is who are the decedents' and what is the driving force

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This could be said of his immediate descendants since they were warring tribes at that time, and now. But it's also been proven that Muhammad is not in the lineage of Ishmael. And that even there were inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula even at that time.

Edit: (wrong emoji)

AG @ HEART said:

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agAngeldad said:

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Don't expect peace..

"This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed as a wild donkey! He will raise his fist against everyone, and everyone will be against him. Yes, he will live in open hostility against all his relatives."

Of course this does not apply to all but, the question is who are the decedents' and what is the driving force

---

This could be said of his immediate descendants since they were warring tribes at that time, and now. But it's also been proven that Muhammad is not in the lineage of Ishmael. And that even there were inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula even at that time.

Edit: (wrong emoji)

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Interesting. Is there a source?

AG @ HEART said:

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agAngeldad said:

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Don't expect peace..

"This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed as a wild donkey! He will raise his fist against everyone, and everyone will be against him. Yes, he will live in open hostility against all his relatives."

Of course this does not apply to all but, the question is who are the decedents' and what is the driving force

---

This could be said of his immediate descendants since they were warring tribes at that time, and now. But it's also been proven that Muhammad is not in the lineage of Ishmael. And that even there were inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula even at that time.

Edit: (wrong emoji)

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Yeah, there is no way to prove this, so I'm calling bull*****

CrackerJackAg said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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agAngeldad said:

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Don't expect peace..

"This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed as a wild donkey! He will raise his fist against everyone, and everyone will be against him. Yes, he will live in open hostility against all his relatives."

Of course this does not apply to all but, the question is who are the decedents' and what is the driving force

---

This could be said of his immediate descendants since they were warring tribes at that time, and now. But it's also been proven that Muhammad is not in the lineage of Ishmael. And that even there were inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula even at that time.

Edit: (wrong emoji)

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Yeah, there is no way to prove this, so I'm calling bull*****

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Its thought that Abraham lived around the 22nd and some even later around 16th and 19th century BC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arabia

The Arabian peninsula has been dated to having people living there as early as 30th century BC

As for his lineage, I'm looking that up, I've heard it said that Muslims had a hard time tracing his line back but attempted to connect it to Abraham to garner credibility with the Jews and arab Christians.

Ishmael is recognized by Muslims as the ancestor of several northern prominent Arab tribes and the forefather of Adnan, the ancestor of Muhammad. Muslims also believe that Muhammad was the descendant of Ishmael who would establish a great nation.

Also from wiki.........

He presents a hadith that says that Ishmael learned Arabic from the Arabs... How can he be the father of the Arabs if he learned Arabic from the Arabs according to Muslim sources themselves?

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3364

Muslim scholars and writers claim muhammad said that Ishmael founded the city of Mecca, there's no historical evidence either in buildings, inscriptions, or literature that says it even existed that far back, and all claims to it being cities stated by non-Islamic sources are in great contention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca

But anyway, we got off-topic. This was about the nation of Israel returning home not Ishmael's descendants.

These verses are in reference to the Jews of the Old Covenant, no?

bigcat22 said:

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These verses are in reference to the Jews of the Old Covenant, no?

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Apparently not, since they did not inhabit nor control the land for all time. If that was the case then we could not take eschatology prophecy from Daniel ETC if it just applied to the fulfilled covenant.

SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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Negative ghost rider.

Modern Jews are not ancient Israel and are not a monolith.

Their views on Palestine are as diverse as the views of 'white' Americans on any issue here like abortion or MAGA.

63% of American Jews believe in a peaceful two-state solution, higher than the rest of the U.S. adult population.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/

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Two state solution will only work in fantasy land. The Palestinians need to be relocated to Egypt, Saudi or someplace else besides Texas.

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That's not happening. A two state solution can work, but it will require leadership changes on both sides and a willingness to confront the extremists on both sides.

Jewish support for Israel does not mean every Jew is going to return and live in the modern state to fulfill Christian claims about the end times.

Sapper Redux said:

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Jewish support for Israel does not mean every Jew is going to return and live in the modern state to fulfill Christian claims about the end times.

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I never said they would do it for Christian claims, it's literally in their Books, which by the way we share in canon. And don't forget, they do not consider their covenant fulfilled like Jesus said he came to do. Don't forget that we worship the same Godhead. The form of Judaism today is more Talmudic than Hebrew and derived from the time after Christ. Second-temple Jews believed differently than modern Jewish rabbis. But what can you expect from a people who rejected their messiah, lost their temple, and their sacrifices, and thus fell into Jewish Talmudic mysticism which is antithetical to second-temple Judaism.

AG @ HEART said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Jewish support for Israel does not mean every Jew is going to return and live in the modern state to fulfill Christian claims about the end times.

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I never said they would do it for Christian claims, it's literally in their Books, which by the way we share in canon. And don't forget, they do not consider their covenant fulfilled like Jesus said he came to do. Don't forget that we worship the same Godhead. The form of Judaism today is more Talmudic than Hebrew and derived from the time after Christ. Second-temple Jews believed differently than modern Jewish rabbis. But what can you expect from a people who rejected their messiah, lost their temple, and their sacrifices, and thus fell into Jewish Talmudic mysticism which is antithetical to second-temple Judaism.

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Nothing problematic in this summary of Judaism.

There were Christians living in Nagasaki, Japan, but that didn't stop the US from nuking them. War is hell.

SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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Negative ghost rider.

Modern Jews are not ancient Israel and are not a monolith.

Their views on Palestine are as diverse as the views of 'white' Americans on any issue here like abortion or MAGA.

63% of American Jews believe in a peaceful two-state solution, higher than the rest of the U.S. adult population.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/

---

Two state solution will only work in fantasy land. The Palestinians need to be relocated to Egypt, Saudi or someplace else besides Texas.

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So Palestinian Christian communities which date back nearly 2,000 years should leave their churches, monasteries, and homeland and be forced to go live somewhere else?

Just trying to understand your position here.

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Yes, they should be relocated. Below is from google on the size of Gaza

The Gaza Strip is 41 km (25 mi) long, from 6 to 12 km (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, and has a total area of 365 km2 (141 sq mi). It has a 51 km (32 mi) border with Israel, and an 11 km (7 mi) border with Egypt, near the city of Rafah.

So yes they don't need to live there. Plenty of other places but nobody wants them.

You act like there is no other place in the world. People lose their houses to build airports and are forced to relocate.

They are being forced to relocate because they cannot stop in terrorist activities. Too bad.

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So Christians and their families will be forcibly removed from their homeland for following Christ?

Even the Muslim rulers weren't that demonic!

You might want to reflect on your theology a bit if it leads you to persecuting followers of Christ.

Serotonin said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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SirDippinDots said:

---

Serotonin said:

---

Negative ghost rider.

Modern Jews are not ancient Israel and are not a monolith.

Their views on Palestine are as diverse as the views of 'white' Americans on any issue here like abortion or MAGA.

63% of American Jews believe in a peaceful two-state solution, higher than the rest of the U.S. adult population.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/

---

Two state solution will only work in fantasy land. The Palestinians need to be relocated to Egypt, Saudi or someplace else besides Texas.

---

So Palestinian Christian communities which date back nearly 2,000 years should leave their churches, monasteries, and homeland and be forced to go live somewhere else?

Just trying to understand your position here.

---

Yes, they should be relocated. Below is from google on the size of Gaza

The Gaza Strip is 41 km (25 mi) long, from 6 to 12 km (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, and has a total area of 365 km2 (141 sq mi). It has a 51 km (32 mi) border with Israel, and an 11 km (7 mi) border with Egypt, near the city of Rafah.

So yes they don't need to live there. Plenty of other places but nobody wants them.

You act like there is no other place in the world. People lose their houses to build airports and are forced to relocate.

They are being forced to relocate because they cannot stop in terrorist activities. Too bad.

---

So Christians and their families will be forcibly removed from their homeland for following Christ?

Even the Muslim rulers weren't that demonic!

You might want to reflect on your theology a bit if it leads you to persecuting followers of Christ.

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Lol. Removed from their homes for following Christ.

Serotonin said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Serotonin said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

Serotonin said:

---

Negative ghost rider.

Modern Jews are not ancient Israel and are not a monolith.

Their views on Palestine are as diverse as the views of 'white' Americans on any issue here like abortion or MAGA.

63% of American Jews believe in a peaceful two-state solution, higher than the rest of the U.S. adult population.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/

---

Two state solution will only work in fantasy land. The Palestinians need to be relocated to Egypt, Saudi or someplace else besides Texas.

---

So Palestinian Christian communities which date back nearly 2,000 years should leave their churches, monasteries, and homeland and be forced to go live somewhere else?

Just trying to understand your position here.

---

Yes, they should be relocated. Below is from google on the size of Gaza

The Gaza Strip is 41 km (25 mi) long, from 6 to 12 km (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, and has a total area of 365 km2 (141 sq mi). It has a 51 km (32 mi) border with Israel, and an 11 km (7 mi) border with Egypt, near the city of Rafah.

So yes they don't need to live there. Plenty of other places but nobody wants them.

You act like there is no other place in the world. People lose their houses to build airports and are forced to relocate.

They are being forced to relocate because they cannot stop in terrorist activities. Too bad.

---

So Christians and their families will be forcibly removed from their homeland for following Christ?

Even the Muslim rulers weren't that demonic!

You might want to reflect on your theology a bit if it leads you to persecuting followers of Christ.

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Lol. Removed from their homes for following Christ.

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"Yes my child, we have been sent by Sir Dippin Dots to forcibly remove you and your family from your home because of his theology. Israel is only for the Jews, no Christians allowed. You may stay in Israel only if you renounce Christ."

<Sir Dippin Dots smiles knowing that this is what Christ wants.>

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I see Gaza still has internet.

Do you have a better idea?

Quote:

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"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good." Thomas Sowell

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This Sowell quote applies 1000X here.

Top-down utopian projects enforced by the barrel of a gun (whether Marxist, Zionist, or any other -ist) always end in unforeseen consequences and disaster.

The answer to the failures of one large-scale utopian project is not another large-scale utopian project ("let's just ethnically cleanse the region!")