If there's no sadness in heaven and our loved ones who've passed are able to "look down" and see us then what exactly do they "feel" when we experience tragedy?

There are many things I have trouble reconciling regarding common Christian religious beliefs.

Would appreciate your thoughts on this one.




Edit: Here is one internet explanation....

from (https://www.desiringgod.org)

"I would say that if God grants saints in heaven to see the suffering and misery as well as the good on the earth, we may be sure that they see it not with their old imperfect eyes and that they understand it not with their old imperfect minds and that they assess it not with their old imperfect hearts. Rather (we may be sure because the Bible says so), they have been perfected in heaven (Hebrews 12:23).

They will see and understand and assess all things in a perfectly spiritual way that takes into account everything they need to know in order to make sense of it and to keep from making any mistakes. And so, they will not in the least doubt the goodness of God in what they see or the wisdom of God in what they see. That may be as important as any surety of whether they can come and see."[url=https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/can-loved-ones-in-heaven-look-down-on-me#new-eyes][/url]

The Banned said:

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I've done limited reading on the beatific vision we will share in when we get to Heaven, but my understanding is we will be able to see how God works all things to His will, both good and bad. So when we experience tragedy, theoretically they will see how God plans on using this tragedy for our good and can rejoice in that the way He would.

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I think that is a good answer, and if you're Catholic, then you can also add in the aspect of interceding for your loved ones and those who are suffering so that the suffering church, the militant church and the triumphant church are all truly ONE in the mystical body of Christ.

92Ag95 said:

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If there's no sadness in heaven and our loved ones who've passed are able to "look down" and see us then what exactly do they "feel" when we experience tragedy?

There are many things I have trouble reconciling regarding common Christian religious beliefs.

Would appreciate your thoughts on this one.

When I first came to faith, reading and listening to John Piper was a great help to me. I feel like he's drifted a but into some SJW stuff over the years, but I do agree with what you posted. RC Sproul also had a good sermon on entire sanctification, and addressed these same questions.


Edit: Here is one internet explanation....

from (https://www.desiringgod.org)

"I would say that if God grants saints in heaven to see the suffering and misery as well as the good on the earth, we may be sure that they see it not with their old imperfect eyes and that they understand it not with their old imperfect minds and that they assess it not with their old imperfect hearts. Rather (we may be sure because the Bible says so), they have been perfected in heaven (Hebrews 12:23).

They will see and understand and assess all things in a perfectly spiritual way that takes into account everything they need to know in order to make sense of it and to keep from making any mistakes. And so, they will not in the least doubt the goodness of God in what they see or the wisdom of God in what they see. That may be as important as any surety of whether they can come and see."[url=https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/can-loved-ones-in-heaven-look-down-on-me#new-eyes][/url]

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Quote:

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If there's no sadness in heaven and our loved ones who've passed are able to "look down" and see us then what exactly do they "feel" when we experience tragedy?

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Maybe the same thing God "feels" when it says he's grieved.

Where does scripture say there is no sadness in heaven?

Win At Life said:

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Where does scripture say there is no sadness in heaven?

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Revelation 21:4

92Ag95 said:

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Win At Life said:

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Where does scripture say there is no sadness in heaven?

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Revelation 21:4

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New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem. How does God wipe away tears in heaven if there are no tears in heaven? Rev. 6:9-10

Martin Q. Blank said:

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92Ag95 said:

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Win At Life said:

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Where does scripture say there is no sadness in heaven?

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Revelation 21:4

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New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem. How does God wipe away tears in heaven if there are no tears in heaven? Rev. 6:9-10

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Fair enough; in the new heaven and the new earth. Are we in the new heaven and new earth right now? I assume the vast majority would say not. Then where are the dead right now, if not heaven? And where is the place of those now crying out in Revelation 6:10?

Win At Life said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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92Ag95 said:

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Win At Life said:

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Where does scripture say there is no sadness in heaven?

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Revelation 21:4

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New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem. How does God wipe away tears in heaven if there are no tears in heaven? Rev. 6:9-10

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Fair enough; in the new heaven and the new earth. Are we in the new heaven and new earth right now? I assume the vast majority would say not. Then where are the dead right now, if not heaven? And where is the place of those now crying out in Revelation 6:10?

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I saw under the altar

We are not in the new heaven and new earth. Hence the tears and sadness.

I just assume we are unable to comprehend the reality of what heaven is.

For example: so much of human fulfillment comes from overcoming obstacles and adversities. If there is nothing to strive for, or nothing to overcome, we become weak and unable to grow.

An existence with nothing to strive for or grow or overcome seems to me to be something that would become hellish.

Also, if there is no risk of failure, how do you get motivated after a while?

I cannot imagine enjoying a life very long in which there is no risk of failure.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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I just assume we are unable to comprehend the reality of what heaven is.

For example: so much of human fulfillment comes from overcoming obstacles and adversities. If there is nothing to strive for, or nothing to overcome, we become weak and unable to grow.

An existence with nothing to strive for or grow or overcome seems to me to be something that would become hellish.

Also, if there is no risk of failure, how do you get motivated after a while?

I cannot imagine enjoying a life very long in which there is no risk of failure.

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This is basically the plot to The Good Place. The humans get tired of heaven where there is no risk and so they make an ending to personhood by allowing good people to choose to dissolve into the monad when they are bored of eternity. This is just another version of materialism that gives no primacy to personhood. The problem here is our imagining of eternity and the divine from a human perspective that hasn't even purified the soul or undergone any level of spiritual transformation. There is no risk in the presence of God since God fills all things. You can't choose evil or something wrong because it won't exist. This will "burn you" since there is no object for your passions to find rest in.

"And so, this begs the question, are the damned ever completely annihilated and cease to exist? Not anymore than the ashes in one's fireplace. Just as the saved for eternity are transformed into God, never reaching the fullness of His grace but like a line approaching infinity for eternity getting closer and closer to it forever, the damned go in the opposite direction. They increasingly cease existence for eternity, but never entirely so. Instead of approaching infinity and never attaining to it completely, they approach zero but never attain to this.

Just as the state of the saved is incomprehensible in its greatness ("Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him," 1 Cor 2:9), the sorry, annihilated (and practically non-existent) state of the damned cannot be contemplated. The damned almost cease to be entities, weeping and gnashing teeth, having seemingly lost all reason, reflection, and other authentic human mannerisms. Their forms, I speak logically, would be indistinguishable and difficult to make outjust as it would be hard to discern which log the embers in the fireplace belong to. However, the damned will persist for eternity in this state as individuals."

""Hell is a double evil," explains Staniloae: "the will to sin, and the pain of the inability to sin. It is attachment to the sin that can no longer actually be committed and thus a refusal to seek out spiritual goods. Through inability the human being is even removed from his relationship with things, and from any egoistic transitory relationship with another person. Any relation that he has with reality is cut off. He leads a phantasmagoric, nightmarish existence. He is totally imprisoned in the hole of solitude. Only the demons and his passions bite him like serpents" (VI:44). The condemned soul loses the good of the other. He is trapped in his subjectivity, cut off from authentic reality, malignant spirits his only companions. The egotistical wall he has built around himself becomes impenetrable to love and light. Staniloae likens the perditional state to an incurable illness, a "lucid madness." It is a total fall from the illuminating Word into the horror of the autonomous self. "He falls into a sort of dreamlike existence in which everything becomes chaotic in a senseless absurdity, without any consistency, without any search for an exit out of it, and without any hope for an exit" (VI:44)."