New computer analysis hints volcanism killed the dinosaurs, not an asteroid (sciencenews.org)

Despite the efforts of the Alvarez father and son team, it seems that the evidence is not conclusive that an asteroid impact was responsible for killing off the dinos.

ETA: Recognizing that I know very little about the facts and specific science relevant to this issue, I've always wondered why the cause could not be both? It would seem that a "One-Two" punch could be exponentially more devastating than simply one or the other.

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I say all that to ask the question: could the impact have triggered the volcanism that is described in this article?

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I've wondered the same thing. Please update us when you get the answer. My guess is that no one knows for sure but lots of geologists, even with PhDs, will have an opinion.

As others have said it was most likely the meteor that triggered seismic activity and this the eventual fallout of major species die off.

Well worth watching.

sodycracker said:

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Well worth watching.

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Why?

Anyone posting a link to any video of more than 5-15 minutes should explain why it's worth watching and provide a summary so that readers can decide for themselves.

I'm not going to watch an hour long video just because. And by the way, Kent Hovind is an embarrassment to YECs like myself.

Summary- unlike ridiculous theories about dinosaurs, a biblical perspective

sodycracker said:

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Summary- unlike ridiculous theories about dinosaurs, a biblical perspective

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Describe some of these ridiculous theories about dinosaurs

BonfireNerd04 said:

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If you believe the currently-popular theories that:

1. dinosaurs were the ancestors of modern birds
2. their extinction was set in motion by an asteroid impact

Then that asteroid has the all-time record for most birds killed with one stone.

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Dinosaurs aren't just the ancestors. Birds are literal dinosaurs.

schmendeler said:

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C'mon, I've never heard birds go RAWR! like in Jurassic Park.

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Hmm. True. I may need to rethink this.

Though the current thoughts about what Rexy actually sounded like would be terrifying to be anywhere near.

Sapper Redux said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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If you believe the currently-popular theories that:

1. dinosaurs were the ancestors of modern birds
2. their extinction was set in motion by an asteroid impact

Then that asteroid has the all-time record for most birds killed with one stone.

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Dinosaurs aren't just the ancestors. Birds are literal dinosaurs.

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Oh, c'mon. I know of several parakeets, parrots, and even crows that understand double entendres, metaphors, sometimes even similes. One or two could even tell jokes.

On the other hand, whenever those figurative expressions have been tried on dinosaurs, they just don't get them.

You may have it backwards.

https://xkcd.com/2845/

As a Christian, I think them dying in Noah's flood makes sense to me because obviously the water dinosaurs wouldn't have died just like fish didn't which would explain "sea monster" sightings through history. But if the Earth is an Old Earth, it very well could have been an asteroid or some other natural disaster too. It's also fascinating to think about but the real answer is "WE DON'T KNOW " Lol. It bugs me when people get angry about their stance and it's not worth arguing over but it's fun to discuss and think about. I have loved dinosaurs since I was a kid so it will definitely be cool to find out the true answer when I get to Heaven.

In all my years I've only heard one person ever mention the whole "fossils were put here by the devil maybe to fool us" and that was back in the 90's when my friend mentioned it and I still think that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But we are in 2023 where people don't believe what they see on video so who knows, it may make a comeback lol.

Questions:

• If an asteroid, where's the asteroid?
• If the Tsunami was created by an Asteroid, would this have created fossils?
• What happens to water after the initial surge in a Tsunami?
• What happens to the people/animals that get washed away?
• Are they buried alive?
• What happens to animals in a volcano?
• How does a Tsunami bury sea life that we see fossilized?

Genesis 7 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained;

DirtDiver said:

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Questions:

• If an asteroid, where's the asteroid?
• If the Tsunami was created by an Asteroid, would this have created fossils?
• What happens to water after the initial surge in a Tsunami?
• What happens to the people/animals that get washed away?
• Are they buried alive?
• What happens to animals in a volcano?
• How does a Tsunami bury sea life that we see fossilized?

Genesis 7 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained;

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I imagine the asteroid partially disintegrated....but isn't the theory that the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater][/url]Chicxulub crater (from asteroid impact) was large enough to cause a mass extinction? I don't know. God works in mysterious ways so although its interesting to ponder, when the dinosaurs lived and how they died doesn't really impact (pun intended) our salvation.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater][/url]

You are right in that this topic of discussion does not have an impact on a person's salvation.

• It can have an impact on how one views the biblical text.
• I think the physical evidence of a global flood that endured over time is the best explanation for what we see in the fossil record and how rocks get placed into layers in the first place.
• I think there are too many holes in the alternatives.
• To accept the alternatives is also an exercise in faith vs fact.

I could see the comet disintegrating or breaking if it landed on the water as things that hit water quickly slow down quickly. While the impact may cause a Tsumai, would it cause one of global proportions? Would the water level rise high enough, endure long enough to cause the pressures to cover mountains where we find fossilized sea life?

Dinosaur Bones:

I think dinosaur fossils teach us the majesty of God's creative ability.
I think they remind us that at one time our planet was different.
They teach us that God's judgement of sin can be severe.

Gomer95 said:

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As a Christian, I think them dying in Noah's flood makes sense to me because obviously the water dinosaurs wouldn't have died just like fish didn't which would explain "sea monster" sightings through history.

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Wouldn't they have gone on the boat like all the other animals?

I've always liked the theory that when God created man, He did not create infants. He created two mature humans. In the same way, He very well could have created a mature planet, complete with things to baffle our tiny brains.

Yes I have seen and read where some think that yes baby or young dinosaurs did get on the Ark but when they came off, because of the flood the atmosphere was too different for them and that along with other things are why they eventually died out with the exception of the sea creatures, I mentioned. Supposedly that is why there are a few stories throughout history of some dinosaurs still living such as dragons pulling carts in China and cave paintings of dinosaurs and things like that. It sounds like a fairly plausible theory to me, but there is nothing to back it up or prove it so we can't know if that is what happened or not in regards to them getting on the ark or really how they died. The Bible does say two of EVERY kind so I'm assuming whatever animals WERE alive as the clouds were getting dark lol were included on the Ark so who knows?

DirtDiver said:

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You are right in that this topic of discussion does have an impact on a person's salvation.

• It can have an impact on how one views the biblical text.
• I think the physical evidence of a global flood that endured over time is the best explanation for what we see in the fossil record and how rocks get placed into layers in the first place.
• I think there are too many holes in the alternatives.
• To accept the alternatives is also an exercise in faith vs fact.

I could see the comet disintegrating or breaking if it landed on the water as things that hit water quickly slow down quickly. While the impact may cause a Tsumai, would it cause one of global proportions? Would the water level rise high enough, endure long enough to cause the pressures to cover mountains where we find fossilized sea life?

Dinosaur Bones:

I think dinosaur fossils teach us the majesty of God's creative ability.
I think they remind us that at one time our planet was different.
They teach us that God's judgement of sin can be severe.

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I did say it doesn't impact salvation but to your point and one I didn't consider, is that some people do believe that if you don't read scripture and discern the earth is exactly and only around 6k years old, you are not part of the faithful. So I can see how you interpret scripture and consider things like the dinosaurs and age of the world could impact some. I came at it from a different perspective. Our faith in Christ and our salvation isn't for the most part foundationally based on when and how the dinosaurs died unless it takes Creation completely out of the equation.

BluHorseShu said:

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DirtDiver said:

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You are right in that this topic of discussion does have an impact on a person's salvation.

• It can have an impact on how one views the biblical text.
• I think the physical evidence of a global flood that endured over time is the best explanation for what we see in the fossil record and how rocks get placed into layers in the first place.
• I think there are too many holes in the alternatives.
• To accept the alternatives is also an exercise in faith vs fact.

I could see the comet disintegrating or breaking if it landed on the water as things that hit water quickly slow down quickly. While the impact may cause a Tsumai, would it cause one of global proportions? Would the water level rise high enough, endure long enough to cause the pressures to cover mountains where we find fossilized sea life?

Dinosaur Bones:

I think dinosaur fossils teach us the majesty of God's creative ability.
I think they remind us that at one time our planet was different.
They teach us that God's judgement of sin can be severe.

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I did say it doesn't impact salvation but to your point and one I didn't consider, is that some people do believe that if you don't read scripture and discern the earth is exactly and only around 6k years old, you are not part of the faithful. So I can see how you interpret scripture and consider things like the dinosaurs and age of the world could impact some. I came at it from a different perspective. Our faith in Christ and our salvation isn't for the most part foundationally based on when and how the dinosaurs died unless it takes Creation completely out of the equation.

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I had a HUGE typo. This topic does NOT impact a person's salvation. For those that say, one cannot be faithful and if they do not believe in YEC, I'm not in that camp. There are many faithful and committed Christians who do not hold the YEC view of creation.

I'm personally convinced that the flood is the best explanation of how dinosaurs died, that the scriptures contain the best explanation of our existence.

Side note 1: After further thought if the comet disintegrated over the ocean. That means it would most likely have absorbed most of the force and not caused a massive wave needed to cover the entire earth and kill all of life. Water has pretty cool properties. There's one view in this video where the camera is on the surface of the water and a wave in a small area is not created.

Side note 2: Did Dinosaurs live with humans?

DirtDiver said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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DirtDiver said:

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You are right in that this topic of discussion does have an impact on a person's salvation.

• It can have an impact on how one views the biblical text.
• I think the physical evidence of a global flood that endured over time is the best explanation for what we see in the fossil record and how rocks get placed into layers in the first place.
• I think there are too many holes in the alternatives.
• To accept the alternatives is also an exercise in faith vs fact.

I could see the comet disintegrating or breaking if it landed on the water as things that hit water quickly slow down quickly. While the impact may cause a Tsumai, would it cause one of global proportions? Would the water level rise high enough, endure long enough to cause the pressures to cover mountains where we find fossilized sea life?

Dinosaur Bones:

I think dinosaur fossils teach us the majesty of God's creative ability.
I think they remind us that at one time our planet was different.
They teach us that God's judgement of sin can be severe.

---

I did say it doesn't impact salvation but to your point and one I didn't consider, is that some people do believe that if you don't read scripture and discern the earth is exactly and only around 6k years old, you are not part of the faithful. So I can see how you interpret scripture and consider things like the dinosaurs and age of the world could impact some. I came at it from a different perspective. Our faith in Christ and our salvation isn't for the most part foundationally based on when and how the dinosaurs died unless it takes Creation completely out of the equation.

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I had a HUGE typo. This topic does NOT impact a person's salvation. For those that say, one cannot be faithful and if they do not believe in YEC, I'm not in that camp. There are many faithful and committed Christians who do not hold the YEC view of creation.

I'm personally convinced that the flood is the best explanation of how dinosaurs died, that the scriptures contain the best explanation of our existence.

Side note 1: After further thought if the comet disintegrated over the ocean. That means it would most likely have absorbed most of the force and not caused a massive wave needed to cover the entire earth and kill all of life. Water has pretty cool properties. There's one view in this video where the camera is on the surface of the water and a wave in a small area is not created.

Side note 2: Did Dinosaurs live with humans?

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So I watched the video and had a completely different takeaway. First all the shots underwater you can see the water cavitating behind the bullets. each individual bullet leaves a pretty substantial cavitation trail which by itself will cause some pretty hefty shock waves (think how a tapping the top of a glass beer bottle can blow out the bottom). and that is from some small 115 gr projectiles. Then, while yes, there are no significant waves from the bullets, pause the video at around the 5:12 mark and look at all the water that has risen above the normal surface level. that is decent amount of water being redirected up and out as it "absorbs" the bullets' energy. If you watch you can even see droplets going above his head. (beyond that at the 5:18-5:19 mark you can absolutely see ripples or waves going outward from the impact zone). And this is all from a few small bullets. even if we assume a full mag dump instantaneously, at 481J apiece, that is just 14.4 kJ of energy being absorbed by that water. the estimated Chicxulub impact was 300 ZJ. that is 2X10^19 times more energy imparted that that full mag dump. for an easier to visualize reference frame, that is roughly the same difference between 1 second and 650 billion years.

no comment on any of the other items in your post, but just to look at it another way, when you say the "force was absorbed" i don't think that means what you think it means. when the energy of a moving object is absorbed, the energy doesn't just stop existing. the object doing the absorbing is affected by that energy transfer. water heats up, movement is created, objects are deformed, etc. when the energy absorbed is small compared to the capacity of the energy sink, it may look like nothing is happening and the energy just disappears, but that is only because of the scale. the amount of energy being absorbed by earth from an impact like this is hard to comprehend. As an example, if we assume all of this energy was absorbed over the period of 1 second, that would mean that for that 1 second, the equivalent of 10% of the suns full power was being absorbed by a single point on earth. mind you, that's not 10% of the power that earth normally receives from the sun, but 10% of the power being released at the sun itself.

edit:
found this from youtube's algorithm after watching your video. look how much bigger the wave gets just stepping up to a .50 BMG. Here, one .50 BMG round carries roughly the same energy as a full mag dump of 30 9mm rounds. you get a great look at the wave at around the 7:07 mark. even if you assume the 9mm was only effectively giving the energy of 1 round this video shows what a 30 fold increase looks like in water response. not try to extrapolate up by 2x10^19 from this...

I agree with you that the Flood survived by Noah and his family is the best explanation of what happens to the dinosaurs. You mentioned the bones of dinosaurs and I think the fact that the vast majority of fossilized dinosaur bones are found as nearly complete skeletons. This also supports the theory that they were buried rather quickly. Then, they are found on virtually the same layers around the globe as I believe you mentioned.

To my knowledge, none of the other theories can explain this.