PabloSerna said:

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Interesting that St. Paul would think that being jealous would be more effective than the truth? He probably had a better grasp of the people of his time.

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Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

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So we're just pawns in this whole thing? Just to get the Jews jealous.

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TheGreatEscape said:

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A&M entering the SEC provoked the Longhorns and Sooners into jealousy.
Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

Romans 11:14

"…in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them."

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Jabin said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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I believe we tend to see the great commission as individualistic. It is. But it is also cooperate. We are to disciple the nations.

Matthew 28-18-20 (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

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Sorry for the derail, but I've always wondered why we call that statement by Christ, to his disciples, the "Great Commission". It only began to be called that late in the 19th century and then gained wide-spread use in the late 20th century with the advent of the evangelical para-church groups such as Campus Crusade.

It was never repeated in the Bible.

The apostles never commanded or even encouraged other Christians to be missionaries or to evangelize.

It would seem that the duty to evangelize does flow naturally from the 2nd Commandment, i.e., to love your neighbor as yourself. But setting up Christ's command, which was given to his disciples only, as a "Great Commission" elevates that duty and prioritizes it over other Christian duties and callings.

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Jabin said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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I believe we tend to see the great commission as individualistic. It is. But it is also cooperate. We are to disciple the nations.

Matthew 28-18-20 (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

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Sorry for the derail, but I've always wondered why we call that statement by Christ, to his disciples, the "Great Commission". It only began to be called that late in the 19th century and then gained wide-spread use in the late 20th century with the advent of the evangelical para-church groups such as Campus Crusade.

It was never repeated in the Bible.

The apostles never commanded or even encouraged other Christians to be missionaries or to evangelize.

It would seem that the duty to evangelize does flow naturally from the 2nd Commandment, i.e., to love your neighbor as yourself. But setting up Christ's command, which was given to his disciples only, as a "Great Commission" elevates that duty and prioritizes it over other Christian duties and callings.

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

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So we're just pawns in this whole thing? Just to get the Jews jealous.

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

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So we're just pawns in this whole thing? Just to get the Jews jealous.

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Hopefully we are God's pawns making everyone want to be like us. The Jewish people are probably the only ones that would be jealous, as we are spreading the Word of their God more than they are

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Sapper Redux said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

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So we're just pawns in this whole thing? Just to get the Jews jealous.

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Hopefully we are God's pawns making everyone want to be like us. The Jewish people are probably the only ones that would be jealous, as we are spreading the Word of their God more than they are

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I'd say the ones I know are far more frustrated at the notion of God promoted by Christianity than any jealousy.

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Sapper Redux said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

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So we're just pawns in this whole thing? Just to get the Jews jealous.

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Hopefully we are God's pawns making everyone want to be like us. The Jewish people are probably the only ones that would be jealous, as we are spreading the Word of their God more than they are

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I'd say the ones I know are far more frustrated at the notion of God promoted by Christianity than any jealousy.

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Sapper Redux said:

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I'm referring to the idea of the Trinity in general and the Messiah as an aspect of God. There's some minor variations among the denominations, but that's fairly central to Christianity.

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Bob_Ag said:

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The Gospel is literally translated as "Good Message". It is repeated over and over that it is to be spoken, communicated and preached to the world. Jesus' ministry was literally proclaiming the gospel. If we are to be "conformed to the image of Christ", then it pretty clearly follows that we are to sow the seeds of the gospel in order for God to build up the body of Christ. I find it hard to believe anyone can read the Bible and not believe God has called all as believers to share the gospel. It is a message, after all, which implies communication.

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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dermdoc said:

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Jabin said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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I believe we tend to see the great commission as individualistic. It is. But it is also cooperate. We are to disciple the nations.

Matthew 28-18-20 (NIV)

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

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Sorry for the derail, but I've always wondered why we call that statement by Christ, to his disciples, the "Great Commission". It only began to be called that late in the 19th century and then gained wide-spread use in the late 20th century with the advent of the evangelical para-church groups such as Campus Crusade.

It was never repeated in the Bible.

The apostles never commanded or even encouraged other Christians to be missionaries or to evangelize.

It would seem that the duty to evangelize does flow naturally from the 2nd Commandment, i.e., to love your neighbor as yourself. But setting up Christ's command, which was given to his disciples only, as a "Great Commission" elevates that duty and prioritizes it over other Christian duties and callings.

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I have always wondered about that also.

It is pretty obvious Scripturally that only certain people were called to be evangelists and missionaries.

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To run with the tangent, I think a lot of it is the Once Saved Always Saved theology that is prominent in a lot of Protestant groups coupled with the principle of a Salvific Prayer. When you put those together, basically all you need to do is get someone to say a certain prayer and your entire job as a Christian is done. That person is saved from hell and you can move on to the next group of damned sinners. Fellowship, brotherhood, spiritual growth, good living, community, and continued faith all become secondary to that single heartfelt prayer that does all the work in an instant. Under this thought, we should all be out there trying to get people to say the Lord's Prayer non-stop. I've been to a lot of churches that are this way. Their only focus is on the moment of conversion and everything else is an afterthought. Well, everything except the tithe, but that's an entirely different discussion.

Since growing up, I've spent a lot of time around people of different faiths in places that weren't majority Christian or at least not by much. For a Jew or Muslim to convert to Christianity is an utterly life changing experience. They might lose their family, their spouse, their friends, and their job. They could become entirely untethered and alone in the world except for the people converting them. As Christians, I think it is our duty to make the people we convert into our family. If you're not willing to take someone into your home, help them find a job, have them over every weekend, etc, then you shouldn't be trying to convince them to upend their entire lives. That's where the iterant evangelist model rubs me the wrong way. It can't be all about the conversion. You have to actually care about people current lives as well as their souls.

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dermdoc said:

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Bob_Ag said:

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The Gospel is literally translated as "Good Message". It is repeated over and over that it is to be spoken, communicated and preached to the world. Jesus' ministry was literally proclaiming the gospel. If we are to be "conformed to the image of Christ", then it pretty clearly follows that we are to sow the seeds of the gospel in order for God to build up the body of Christ. I find it hard to believe anyone can read the Bible and not believe God has called all as believers to share the gospel. It is a message, after all, which implies communication.

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Do not disagree. The question is the methods used. And I think every Christian has a different role to place in advancement of the Kingdom.

I am not called to preach. I am not called to be a monk. I am called to pass the faith on to my children and entire family. I am called to demonstrate how I am different by my actions, words, how I conduct my business, my integrity, etc.

I am called to love God and love my neighbor.

I am called to be a good steward of the financial blessings God has bestowed on me.

I am called to be the best version of me I can be. But my job and race is different than every other human being.

You have to understand your identity in Christ to fulfill your destiny.

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Bob_Ag said:

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dermdoc said:

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Bob_Ag said:

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The Gospel is literally translated as "Good Message". It is repeated over and over that it is to be spoken, communicated and preached to the world. Jesus' ministry was literally proclaiming the gospel. If we are to be "conformed to the image of Christ", then it pretty clearly follows that we are to sow the seeds of the gospel in order for God to build up the body of Christ. I find it hard to believe anyone can read the Bible and not believe God has called all as believers to share the gospel. It is a message, after all, which implies communication.

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Do not disagree. The question is the methods used. And I think every Christian has a different role to place in advancement of the Kingdom.

I am not called to preach. I am not called to be a monk. I am called to pass the faith on to my children and entire family. I am called to demonstrate how I am different by my actions, words, how I conduct my business, my integrity, etc.

I am called to love God and love my neighbor.

I am called to be a good steward of the financial blessings God has bestowed on me.

I am called to be the best version of me I can be. But my job and race is different than every other human being.

You have to understand your identity in Christ to fulfill your destiny.

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A message is shared and communicated. You are confusing spiritual gifts with sharing the gospel. It doesn't matter what you're gifts are because as true believers we are to "bear witness" and "make disciples" because "the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes".

If I feed the hungry as we are all called to do, but tell no one about the good news of Jesus Christ and how he is the true bread of life and living water, then I have done a good work devoid of faith. I have done nothing to further the kingdom. Even secular people feed the hungry.

I appreciate what you are trying to say, but I couldn't disagree more with your last statement. It is not your identity in Christ, it is your identity is Christ. "And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from degree of glory to another". We are to be imitators of Christ and Christ shared the gospel, verbally.

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Win At Life said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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A&M entering the SEC provoked the Longhorns and Sooners into jealousy.
Gentile nations entering into the covenant will provoke the Jews into jealousy and they will follow.

Romans 11:14

"…in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them."

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You won't make them jealous by pushing a pagan looking Jesus who violates Elohim's sabbaths and instead is celebrated with pagan winter solstice and spring fertility goddess festivals. Just like Joseph, the savior of Israel, stood before them looking like an Egyptian pagan god, they did not recognize him. It was only when he removed his pagan trappings and approached them as a son of Israel did they recognize him. Likewise, it will not be until the times of the gentile pagan dressing of Jesus has come to an end and He is revealed as the perfect Torah Law keeper named the Jewish Yeshua will they see him. Unfortunately, the Torah predicts that won't happen until the 7-year famine (tribulation) known as the Time of Jacob's Trouble will that happen.

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Jabin said:

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I've not heard of the 28 epics in Ecclesiastes but am interested in learning more about that. Do you have any links explaining that topic?

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dermdoc said:

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Bob_Ag said:

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dermdoc said:

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Bob_Ag said:

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The Gospel is literally translated as "Good Message". It is repeated over and over that it is to be spoken, communicated and preached to the world. Jesus' ministry was literally proclaiming the gospel. If we are to be "conformed to the image of Christ", then it pretty clearly follows that we are to sow the seeds of the gospel in order for God to build up the body of Christ. I find it hard to believe anyone can read the Bible and not believe God has called all as believers to share the gospel. It is a message, after all, which implies communication.

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Do not disagree. The question is the methods used. And I think every Christian has a different role to place in advancement of the Kingdom.

I am not called to preach. I am not called to be a monk. I am called to pass the faith on to my children and entire family. I am called to demonstrate how I am different by my actions, words, how I conduct my business, my integrity, etc.

I am called to love God and love my neighbor.

I am called to be a good steward of the financial blessings God has bestowed on me.

I am called to be the best version of me I can be. But my job and race is different than every other human being.

You have to understand your identity in Christ to fulfill your destiny.

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A message is shared and communicated. You are confusing spiritual gifts with sharing the gospel. It doesn't matter what you're gifts are because as true believers we are to "bear witness" and "make disciples" because "the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes".

If I feed the hungry as we are all called to do, but tell no one about the good news of Jesus Christ and how he is the true bread of life and living water, then I have done a good work devoid of faith. I have done nothing to further the kingdom. Even secular people feed the hungry.

I appreciate what you are trying to say, but I couldn't disagree more with your last statement. It is not your identity in Christ, it is your identity is Christ. "And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from degree of glory to another". We are to be imitators of Christ and Christ shared the gospel, verbally.

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I agree that is fits better than in.

And agree with your post. I do think we are all called to share the Gospel but I do not think we are all supposed to be on the street yelling at people that they are going to hell if they go to a fb game.

And that is what these folks were saying.

That is not Scriptural to my understanding. I do think feeding the hungry, visiting the prisoner, etc.when combined with a gentle sharing of the Gospel is more effective than bullhorns.

And thanks for the civil tone.

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Jabin said:

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Like you two guys' discussion. Very civil.

I want to reemphasize that I'm not arguing against the Christian duty to evangelize. But I believe it flows from the 2nd Commandment, not any so-called "Great Commission". And the point is important to me because many Christians in full-time evangelization roles often tend to view other Christians as second-class because they're not following the "Great Commission" full time. Years ago, I dated a girl who was on staff of Cru (then Campus Crusade) and the biggest obstacle between us was that I wasn't obeying the Great Commission by being in full-time ministry.

Ironically, after we broke up, she ended up leaving Cru and marrying a rich oilman. Oh well.

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Jabin said:

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Like you two guys' discussion. Very civil.

I want to reemphasize that I'm not arguing against the Christian duty to evangelize. But I believe it flows from the 2nd Commandment, not any so-called "Great Commission". And the point is important to me because many Christians in full-time evangelization roles often tend to view other Christians as second-class because they're not following the "Great Commission" full time. Years ago, I dated a girl who was on staff of Cru (then Campus Crusade) and the biggest obstacle between us was that I wasn't obeying the Great Commission by being in full-time ministry.

Ironically, after we broke up, she ended up leaving Cru and marrying a rich oilman. Oh well.

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Quote:

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How can you truly love your neighbors if they are not warned about hell?

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Jabin said:

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Like you two guys' discussion. Very civil.

I want to reemphasize that I'm not arguing against the Christian duty to evangelize. But I believe it flows from the 2nd Commandment, not any so-called "Great Commission". And the point is important to me because many Christians in full-time evangelization roles often tend to view other Christians as second-class because they're not following the "Great Commission" full time. Years ago, I dated a girl who was on staff of Cru (then Campus Crusade) and the biggest obstacle between us was that I wasn't obeying the Great Commission by being in full-time ministry.

Ironically, after we broke up, she ended up leaving Cru and marrying a rich oilman. Oh well.

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