Do you believe in soul sleep or that we are sent to heaven (out of this world heaven) when we die?

There's also the physical resurrection that is
important for us to be in our physical glorified bodies or glorification in the new heavens and new earth (or heaven).

I'm leaning a little towards soul sleep because I just
can't wrap my brain around God sending people
to hell and then bringing them back to judge them in the final judgement. But I need your expertise.

Zobel said:

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The Church teaches that when people die their lives are hidden in Christ. And, the faithful departed are in a place of rest while they await the final judgment and the resurrection. What that means, I don't know. I don't think we can comprehend life separate from our bodies, so I don't think it really matters all that much. It doesn't change what is before us right now.

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Agree.

Thank you. I now agree.

Well…yeah.
It's like a son facing his father, who is the judge, that messed up with grand larceny.
The jury finds the the son guilty. The father has no pleasure in the punishment of his son. But he has to issue justice.

TheGreatEscape said:

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Well…yeah.
It's like a son facing his father, who is the judge, that messed up with grand larceny.
The jury finds the the son guilty. The father has no pleasure in the punishment of his son. But he has to issue justice.

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That is a very Western way of looking at judgement.

What if instead of judicial it is ontological?

And please understand I am not trying to change any aspect of your beliefs. I like to read and learn.

dermdoc said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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Well…yeah.
It's like a son facing his father, who is the judge, that messed up with grand larceny.
The jury finds the the son guilty. The father has no pleasure in the punishment of his son. But he has to issue justice.

---

That is a very Western way of looking at judgement.

What if instead of judicial it is ontological?

And please understand I am not trying to change any aspect of your beliefs. I like to read and learn.

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Lol. Well…you're in the East and I'm in the West.

TheGreatEscape said:

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dermdoc said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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Well…yeah.
It's like a son facing his father, who is the judge, that messed up with grand larceny.
The jury finds the the son guilty. The father has no pleasure in the punishment of his son. But he has to issue justice.

---

That is a very Western way of looking at judgement.

What if instead of judicial it is ontological?

And please understand I am not trying to change any aspect of your beliefs. I like to read and learn.

---

Lol. Well…you're in the East and I'm in the West.

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Truth is truth. Worth some study in my opinion.

dermdoc said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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Well…yeah.
It's like a son facing his father, who is the judge, that messed up with grand larceny.
The jury finds the the son guilty. The father has no pleasure in the punishment of his son. But he has to issue justice.

---

That is a very Western way of looking at judgement.

What if instead of judicial it is ontological?

And please understand I am not trying to change any aspect of your beliefs. I like to read and learn.

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What you said in your post above is essentially the Lutheran position.

Anybody going to hell is doing it of their own accord.

God desires all to be saved and we are in a passive way through faith. But we can choose to actively reject God and in doing so choose hell.

Zobel,

Eastern Orthodox does not have "particular judgement" equivalent to Catholic doctrine on death? CCC 1021-1022 for reference.

1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.596

Maybe. I don't know, I've never seen anything in particular about it that I can remember.

AgLiving06 said:

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dermdoc said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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Well…yeah.
It's like a son facing his father, who is the judge, that messed up with grand larceny.
The jury finds the the son guilty. The father has no pleasure in the punishment of his son. But he has to issue justice.

---

That is a very Western way of looking at judgement.

What if instead of judicial it is ontological?

And please understand I am not trying to change any aspect of your beliefs. I like to read and learn.

---

What you said in your post above is essentially the Lutheran position.

Anybody going to hell is doing it of their own accord.

God desires all to be saved and we are in a passive way through faith. But we can choose to actively reject God and in doing so choose hell.

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Well, I'm glad all of you are around here.

Hey Zobel

Do you believe in Soul Asylum or Collective Soul?