Zobel said:
I think it means what it says. Liberty of conscience and immunity of citizenship is recognized as a natural right versus something permitted, and the US government doesn't permit bigotry or persecution.
Religious beliefs of America's founders...
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Last: 1 yr ago by TexasAggie81
Yeah the irony was not lost on me
Zobel said:
I think it means what it says. Liberty of conscience and immunity of citizenship is recognized as a natural right versus something permitted, and the US government doesn't permit bigotry or persecution.
A large part of ensuring that in the model of classically-based Enlightenment republicanism is a total separation of the organ of state from that of religion.
To me, it is patently obvious that almost all of the Founders believed in a God, whether Christian or otherwise.
That thought and morality is interwoven in every major American document written at that time.
It always come down to the thought of conservative strict interpretation or liberal "living documents".
Not so much about actual Christianity than conservatism vs liberalism.
Seems like that is what everything is about these days.
That thought and morality is interwoven in every major American document written at that time.
It always come down to the thought of conservative strict interpretation or liberal "living documents".
Not so much about actual Christianity than conservatism vs liberalism.
Seems like that is what everything is about these days.
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And will add that there were a lot of classic liberals in the Founding fathers.
No lefties to my knowledge. And despite what anyone thinks, "enlightened" does not equate to leftism.
No lefties to my knowledge. And despite what anyone thinks, "enlightened" does not equate to leftism.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
facts not in evidence in that letter.
i think it's critical here that you correctly included one organ but did no explicitly include the other. the organ of state from the organ(s) of religion is NOT the same as the organ of state from religion.
i think it's critical here that you correctly included one organ but did no explicitly include the other. the organ of state from the organ(s) of religion is NOT the same as the organ of state from religion.
dermdoc said:
And will add that there were a lot of classic liberals in the Founding fathers.
No lefties to my knowledge. And despite what anyone thinks, "enlightened" does not equate to leftism.
Wait, are you saying that the enlightenment and those that followed it were not progressive minded?
Macarthur said:dermdoc said:
And will add that there were a lot of classic liberals in the Founding fathers.
No lefties to my knowledge. And despite what anyone thinks, "enlightened" does not equate to leftism.
Wait, are you saying that the enlightenment and those that followed it were not progressive minded?
it is nuanced. Classic liberalism is great. Leftism is bad.
The problem with the Enlightment is that those two terms became confused.
Any additional governmental control is bad. And that should be the Enlightenment.
It is so patently obvious.
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Sure, it's nuanced, but I think it's pretty safe to say whether it be the more radical or moderate forms of the enlightenment, they were both pretty progressive, at the time.
I"m not sure how beneficial it is to try and label based on the current US political talking points (i.e., liberal v conservative).
I"m not sure how beneficial it is to try and label based on the current US political talking points (i.e., liberal v conservative).
Macarthur said:
Sure, it's nuanced, but I think it's pretty safe to say whether it be the more radical or moderate forms of the enlightenment, they were both pretty progressive, at the time.
I"m not sure how beneficial it is to try and label based on the current US political talking points (i.e., liberal v conservative).
So can you define "progressivism"? And what the end games are?
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Sapper Redux said:
So now Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence and a key figure in Revolutionary Virginia's politics is being demoted? The founders aren't just those at the Constitutional Convention. It's about 2-3 generations of people who created the whole framework for revolution and republic.
And many were doctrinally orthodox Christians. That does not mean they founded the United States as a doctrinally Christian nation. They saw it as vital to the exercise of religion that it not be.
Even though Jefferson produced his own version of the Bible and was often characterized as a Deist, his advocacy for religious freedom and choice cannot be questioned. Thank goodness for Jefferson, whose faith was far from orthodox.
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