https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

On further reflection, I may have some quibbles with the article.

First, its examination of the history in religion in modern cultures is, by definition, very brief and limited. It's always dangerous to extrapolate from a very limited data set.

Second, even if their premise is correct, God can always intervene in that culture. Although they discount revival, they should not if it is founded on or supported by God's power.

And although I agree completely that God is always in control, that does not mean that he always intends to leave a remnant behind. Islam virtually eliminated Christianity from North Africa, which until that time may have had the highest number of Christians and church leaders in the world. And Japan was very successful in eliminating Christianity (although apparently there are some "hidden" groups that may or may not still be Christians: Driven Underground Years Ago, Japan's 'Hidden Christians' Maintain Faith : Parallels : NPR)

dermdoc said:

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UTExan said:

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I wonder if this was the same opinion in 33AD?

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I was thinking the same thing. And the five hundred years or more thereafter.

The Gospel is truth and truth never dies

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^ Amen.

dermdoc said:

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UTExan said:

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I wonder if this was the same opinion in 33AD?

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I was thinking the same thing. And the five hundred years or more thereafter.

The Gospel is truth and truth never dies

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It's not just the Gospel btw. It's written on every human heart from the beginning. Time is irrelevant.

IF the full truth about the et reality is disclosed, the major religions are rendered inert over night. This is one of the prime reasons the cover-up is in place. Fear of societal collapse.

Aztec1948 said:

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IF the full truth about the et reality is disclosed, the major religions are rendered inert over night. This is one of the prime reasons the cover-up is in place. Fear of societal collapse.

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Buddhism will be just fine.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Jabin said:

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https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

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I mean...the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly rejects Christ. So I'm not surprised. In orthodoxy, its the prayers of the priests, monasteries, and laity asking God to give us more time to repent from our sins that kicks the can down the road. Removing those groups removes the petitions.

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Yes it's over when liturgy ends. Long way to go imo.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Jabin said:

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https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

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I mean...the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly rejects Christ.

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Disagree. The most basic trigger for the end times is that Israel according to the flesh overwhelmingly believes in Christ.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Jabin said:

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https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

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I mean...the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly rejects Christ.

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Disagree. The most basic trigger for the end times is that Israel according to the flesh overwhelmingly believes in Christ.

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Okay this is a new one for me. Nothing about the end of times begins with 'things are so good - a huge majority of people believe in Christ.'

Judgement for our sins happens when humanity rejects God the most, not the least.

Would be interested to hear more though.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Jabin said:

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https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

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I mean...the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly rejects Christ.

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Disagree. The most basic trigger for the end times is that Israel according to the flesh overwhelmingly believes in Christ.

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Okay this is a new one for me. Nothing about the end of times begins with 'things are so good - a huge majority of people believe in Christ.'

Judgement for our sins happens when humanity rejects God the most, not the least.

Would be interested to hear more though.

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What denomination are you?

The Green Dragon said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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IF the full truth about the et reality is disclosed, the major religions are rendered inert over night. This is one of the prime reasons the cover-up is in place. Fear of societal collapse.

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Buddhism will be just fine.

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Perhaps so. It was the one that I always felt would be least effected. Any native American religion is probably even bolstered by the reality I would think. Hinduism...? Dunno....many gods, many et..

Martin Q. Blank said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Jabin said:

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https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

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I mean...the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly rejects Christ.

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Disagree. The most basic trigger for the end times is that Israel according to the flesh overwhelmingly believes in Christ.

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Okay this is a new one for me. Nothing about the end of times begins with 'things are so good - a huge majority of people believe in Christ.'

Judgement for our sins happens when humanity rejects God the most, not the least.

Would be interested to hear more though.

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What denomination are you?

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What difference does it make for your end times assertion?

one MEEN Ag said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Jabin said:

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https://religionnews.com/2023/06/06/book-the-world-is-losing-its-religion-revival-is-unlikely/

This article is very interesting and I'm not sure that I can find a lot to disagree with in it.

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I mean...the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly rejects Christ.

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Disagree. The most basic trigger for the end times is that Israel according to the flesh overwhelmingly believes in Christ.

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Okay this is a new one for me. Nothing about the end of times begins with 'things are so good - a huge majority of people believe in Christ.'

Judgement for our sins happens when humanity rejects God the most, not the least.

Would be interested to hear more though.

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What denomination are you?

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What difference does it make for your end times assertion?

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Usually people like to read from people they're familiar with. I was just going to use an author from your denomination. The relevant passage is Rom. 11:25-27. He uses Isaiah to prove a future salvation of Israel, but there are others such as Mal. 3:3.

"All Israel" is not Israel according to the flesh.

Zobel said:

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"All Israel" is not Israel according to the flesh.

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Do you think "all Israel" means the church?

Thanks

I think Israel was formed from one family, Abraham's genetic kids. But the idea of Israel as a specific people was not genetic at all, it came from Passover and Pentecost, God made them a People who once was not a People. The ten of the twelve tribes were completely lost, scattered, destroyed and became gentiles, both ethnically or genetically (something the scriptures don't really have a place for) and culturally. "All Israel" is the reconstituted Israel as a People where those tribes are restored out from the gentiles. The People of God are Israel, and the Church is the assembled People of God. So when God saves All Israel, He saves All Mankind.

As St Paul says, not all who are of Israel are Israel. The marker to who is Israel is faith, not genetics.

Zobel said:

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I think Israel was formed from one family, Abraham's genetic kids. But the idea of Israel as a specific people was not genetic at all, it came from Passover and Pentecost, God made them a People who once was not a People. The ten of the twelve tribes were completely lost, scattered, destroyed and became gentiles, both ethnically or genetically (something the scriptures don't really have a place for) and culturally. "All Israel" is the reconstituted Israel as a People where those tribes are restored out from the gentiles. The People of God are Israel, and the Church is the assembled People of God. So when God saves All Israel, He saves All Mankind.

As St Paul says, not all who are of Israel are Israel. The marker to who is Israel is faith, not genetics.

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Protestants will deny this until their death because they are controlled by Rabbinic narratives. They deny Christian history.

Zobel said:

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As St Paul says, not all who are of Israel are Israel.

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So he used "Israel" in two different senses in his letter. One according to the flesh, one according to faith. Which one does he reference below?

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

"The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27 "and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."

There is a third use - "all Israel" meaning all twelve tribes, as opposed to the only ones left in existence when he was writing. This is the same we see in St John's Apocalypse - the faithful are from all the tribes. That quote of Isaiah is from 59 and also 27:9 in the Greek. Isaiah 27 concludes with "in that day a great trumpet will be blown, and those who were lost in the land of Assyria and those who were driven out to the land of Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain at Jerusalem." It also paraphrases Jeremiah 31:33-34. That passage talks about God as the God of "all the clans" of Israel, that again they will live in Ephraim and Samaria (ie northern kingdom). It says "I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the farthest parts of the earth… He who scattered Israel will gather him,
and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.' For the LORD has ransomed Jacob and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him…. There is hope for your future,
declares the LORD, and your children shall come back to their own country. I have heard Ephraim grieving, 'You have disciplined me, and I was disciplined, like an untrained calf; bring me back that I may be restored, for you are the LORD my god.' "

The quotes are to call all of this to mind. This theme of restoration of all Israel - all 12 tribes - is throughout the prophets. At the time of the writing of the NT the northern tribes had been completely gone for seven hundred years.

What blows St Paul's mind is how God brought this about - by bringing in the gentiles, into whom the northern tribes had been scattered. So by the very act of the gentiles coming in, those tribes were reconstituted. God scattered the unfaithful of Israel into the gentiles, and from that brought them back to redeem all mankind.

Regardless, the most basic trigger for the end times is that the world overwhelmingly accepts Christ, not rejects him.