The Novus Ordo Parishes are pushing away the orthodox

2,226 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by PabloSerna
Dies Irae
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I have been Catholic my whole life, and thoroughly love the Catholic Church. I believe it to be One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ 1990 or so years ago. I love the Sacraments, I love the Mysteries and I love the Traditions.

I do not think I will be able to continue going to a Novus Ordo Parish. I didn't like communion in the hand, or the EMHC's, or the modern music with guitars and drums, or the Deacons giving the homily, but those things weren't fatal, the Church in its wisdom had sanctioned them (albeit not to this level) so I could handle them.

What I am finding myself unable to handle is the absolute lack of availability or concern for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. My current Parish has two Priests for 6,000 families, they offer reconciliation for two hours a week, one hour on Weds, one hour Saturday morning. Often times only one Priest is available per session. There is very poor guidance on the form of Confession, with people using it as a counseling session and taking 15-20 mins instead of giving name and number of sins.

I haven't been able to go to confession in months, it is disheartening to show up an hour early and still be 11th in line behind the nice Filipina grandmas. This has happened 4 times in the last 3 months.

Contrast this with the TLM parishes , where they have confessionals, with screens, and kneelers, and have reconciliation before every mass, and where they bring in Priests from around town to hear confession several times a year.

Reconciliation is central to the ability to properly receive the Body and Blood of Christ, and it feels like the NO parishes see it as some sort of once a lifetime sacrament that is a quaint tradition of a bygone time.
TSJ
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AG
Do y'all have few priests? The parishes around me run extremely thin on priests.
The Banned
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It is frustrating for sure. Have you brought it up with the parish priests in a reasonable way? I'm a part of a small parish and the priest is fairly orthodox, but even he won't have a ton of times because "it's always the same few people"

I have ideas on how to fix it, but they're all theoretical right now.
Dies Irae
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Yes, I have a very good relationship with the Pastor and I am a bit discouraged by him. He has turned from a young vibrant priest on fire for Christ to a grouchy middle aged overburdened Parish Administrator in the time that I have known him.

He has a ton on his plate, I get that, but his entire demeanor is "I don't need any more problems". I think that comes from having a catholic school, and 6,000 family church under his control. There are troubling signs though, he has allowed Protestants to sing in the choir, we have a lector that is in a "gay marriage" and we have a gay cantor.

More to the point, he kind of grudgingly told me that I only need to be going to confession a few times a year, and that appointments can always be made for confession. I do not like appointments as it takes away the anonymity that is vital to the sacrament, and they are hard to get anyway.


TSJ
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AG
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/anonymity-in-the-confessional-4487

From this link it looks like anonymous confession really didn't take hold till the 17th century. Are you really going to shock him? They have heard everything.

Why not go to another parish for confession if yours is not accommodating.
The BQ Jock
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I haven't been to a NO for years, but in each TLM parish/chapel I have been to the priest hears confessions for about 1-2 hours before each mass. If you can't get into confession at your home parish, try looking at other parishes in the diocese or hit up a TLM and make it home. That's what I did, at least. If you need help finding one I would be happy to assist
Dies Irae
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That's actually very interesting, I didn't know that. I just know personally that I prefer the anonymity and from what I have read, priests do as well. There is also a story I heard from Joe McClane (Houston based catholic radio personality) who tells of a buddy he knew that had a laicised priest (that he had confessed to) move in as his neighbor, and how awkward that would be.


Dies Irae
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The BQ Jock said:

I haven't been to a NO for years, but in each TLM parish/chapel I have been to the priest hears confessions for about 1-2 hours before each mass. If you can't get into confession at your home parish, try looking at other parishes in the diocese or hit up a TLM and make it home. That's what I did, at least. If you need help finding one I would be happy to assist


I think I am going to start attending Regina Caeli in Houston. It is a bit of a drive but it is worth it. I have gone with a good friend of mine (actually a fellow TexAgs poster) and enjoyed the experience, I also saw a lot of my old acquaintances from my current church who I hadn't seen in a while and had left to come there.

My wife is the only holdout right now, so I am asking her to discern.
Pro Sandy
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AG
"There are troubling signs though, he has allowed Protestants to sing in the choir, "

The horror!

Went to a church that had a Jew play organ.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
Are there no other parishes nearby where you could go to confession? I have the confession times for the three parishes nearby bookmarked. I go to the one that is most convenient.

I'm blessed to have a parish where confession is prioritized by our pastor and our parochial vicar.
The BQ Jock
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I've only been to Regina Caeli one time but really enjoyed it. While in college my buddies, sister, and I usually drove to Spring to St. Michael the Archangel. On occasion we went to Dickinson to Queen of Angels priory. I don't know if those are less of a drive for you but thought I'd share. Both great chapels with great priests and solid communities.
PabloSerna
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AG
What about the mission?
PabloSerna
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AG
You are exhibit A why Pope Francis was right to reign in TLM. How are you going to be "salt" to your community if you are traveling 1 hour away to go to a church that makes you "feel good"?

Maybe, just maybe God is calling you to a higher mission with all your knowledge? Why don't you start a Bible Study? A Catholic History class? Sounds like you have been blessed with a lot of knowledge about the faith- don't be stingy and keep it to yourself.

If I ruffled your feathers, mia culpa!

Dies Irae
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PabloSerna said:

You are exhibit A why Pope Francis was right to reign in TLM. How are you going to be "salt" to your community if you are traveling 1 hour away to go to a church that makes you "feel good"?

Maybe, just maybe God is calling you to a higher mission with all your knowledge? Why don't you start a Bible Study? A Catholic History class? Sounds like you have been blessed with a lot of knowledge about the faith- don't be stingy and keep it to yourself.

If I ruffled your feathers, mia culpa!




You are neither hot nor cold, Pablo. You preach that people need to feel welcome in church and have their spiritual needs met when you talk about the gay, the trans, and the pro-abort crowd, but when it comes to us who want to be able to receive the sacraments in a regular fashion it's "toughen up buttercup"?

Again, this isnt "I don't like female altar servers" or "guitars aren't appropriate for mass" but that we virtually have no opportunities for reconciliation.
Howdy Dammit
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PabloSerna said:

You are exhibit A why Pope Francis was right to reign in TLM. How are you going to be "salt" to your community if you are traveling 1 hour away to go to a church that makes you "feel good"?

Maybe, just maybe God is calling you to a higher mission with all your knowledge? Why don't you start a Bible Study? A Catholic History class? Sounds like you have been blessed with a lot of knowledge about the faith- don't be stingy and keep it to yourself.

If I ruffled your feathers, mia culpa!



I can't wrap my head around this take. What in the world does this have to do with lack of sacraments provided.
File5
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AG
Why can't everyone be TLM and have NO be the exception? I will never understand this.

Why are people going to TLM assumed to not be participating in the "mission"? This seems incredibly ironic as the vast, vast majority of NO goers are likely not in the "mission", even though they have such convenience of close services. What defines the "mission"? I am getting so fed up with being browbeaten that all of these obviously devout TLM folks are inferior in their catholicity, and then see such mediocrity in NO parishes. I've been in the "mission" my entire life in NO parishes and the TLM communities are obviously executing the "mission" as well or better from what I can see.
File5
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AG
I've been to Regina Caeli once like you and was also sorely tempted to join whole-hog, but it's a bit of a drive, we're fairly involved at our current parish so it would have been awkward, and life circumstances have changed such that it wouldn't be feasible for at least another 3-4 years. I would like to find someone who's made that switch with a young family and see what they say. I've been blessed at my current church that they are consistent in confessions and the wait is never too long.

The sad thing at my current church is that there are so few that are heavily involved and so many who are not at all. I will say our parish ministry was well attended this year which gives me hope, three straight nights of solid Dominican homiletics.
747Ag
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AG
PabloSerna said:

You are exhibit A why Pope Francis was right to reign in TLM. How are you going to be "salt" to your community if you are traveling 1 hour away to go to a church that makes you "feel good"?

Maybe, just maybe God is calling you to a higher mission with all your knowledge? Why don't you start a Bible Study? A Catholic History class? Sounds like you have been blessed with a lot of knowledge about the faith- don't be stingy and keep it to yourself.

If I ruffled your feathers, mia culpa!
As the zoomers say... cringe take

Why should I stay in a parish and be salt when I hear heresy from the pulpit? Or if there is a continual ars celebrandi that acts contrary to the dignity of the Holy Mass? Does not my duty to pass on the Faith to my children supersede being a light to those around in me in the pews? Should I trust the pastors of a parish in wherein a friend was judged and berated in the confessional?

Matthew 7:9
"Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?"

Many parishes are sadly handing out stones while we cry out for bread.
Dies Irae
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The BQ Jock said:

I've only been to Regina Caeli one time but really enjoyed it. While in college my buddies, sister, and I usually drove to Spring to St. Michael the Archangel. On occasion we went to Dickinson to Queen of Angels priory. I don't know if those are less of a drive for you but thought I'd share. Both great chapels with great priests and solid communities.


Queen of Angels is SSPX if I remember correctly, no? I have nothing against the SSPX, they are needed in full participation with the church as soon as possible; I just have a slight issue attending their mass given that there is an FSSP option.
SoulSlaveAG2005
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AG
This NO V TLM feud makes me sad.
The BQ Jock
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I'm confused as to what you mean by "full participation." As you can probably tell by my few posts on here I am very biased towards the Society. One of my favorite priests I have ever known is a Fraternity priest in Cabot, Arkansas, though, so I have no issue with them either. I don't understand why you would have to pick one over the other if it was in the area unless it was more of a preferential thing over charisms, proximity, mass times, etc.
The BQ Jock
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But to answer your question, yes Queen of Angels is one of the SSPX priories in Texas. Essentially it's where all the priests live throughout the week until they travel to their respective chapels. Fr Zigrang for example makes the journey from Dickinson to San Antonio each week for mass and confessions. Often times he says mass in Austin as well before going back to Dickinson.
Dies Irae
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The BQ Jock said:

I'm confused as to what you mean by "full participation." As you can probably tell by my few posts on here I am very biased towards the Society. One of my favorite priests I have ever known is a Fraternity priest in Cabot, Arkansas, though, so I have no issue with them either. I don't understand why you would have to pick one over the other if it was in the area unless it was more of a preferential thing over charisms, proximity, mass times, etc.


Well I don't think it's any surprise to anyone that the SSPX's current status in the church is canonically irregular. While I think the Vatican has been purposefully vague on what that actually entails, some Bishops have been a bit more forceful.

With that being said, I am a big fan of the SSPX, and think they are greatly needed back fully, but obviously Vatican II is a big sticking point.
The BQ Jock
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God bless you, amigo. Though I am of the opinion they are already fully part of the Church, it should become abundantly clear very soon. Word on the street has it that Francis has approved the consecration of more bishops.. whether it holds true or not remains to be seen.
PabloSerna
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AG
I think you get my point "cringe" and all. We go to mass to give thanks not to be entertained.
PabloSerna
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Just a follow up. I don't think you should feel un-welcomed at your parish and for that reason alone, you need to seek out a place where your faith journey can grow.
PabloSerna
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AG
There was this whole Vatican II thing that discussed this in great detail. Lumen Gentium is a document that captured the movement away from a liturgy that was not reflective of a greater call to universal holiness.

Is the TLM beautiful? Of course it is. That is not the question. It is instead about the mission. Our universal calling to the new evangelization. We have a three fold baptismal calling as priest, prophet, and king.

When the faithful make this connection the world will change.
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