https://catholicexchange.com/nine-proofs-of-the-true-presence/

Goosebumps every time!!

Where do you think evil comes from?

ETA: Not trying to trap you, but don't you think your assessment of the mass at your church sounds like what Jesus was talking about in MT 15:19?

PabloSerna said:

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Where do you think evil comes from?

ETA: Not trying to trap you, but don't you think your assessment of the mass at your church sounds like what Jesus was talking about in MT 15:19?

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I don't know how you come away with that. I'm not disparaging anyone. That's my take on why there are so many Mass going Catholics who don't believe in the real presence. It's just an observation. The article attributes it to poor catechesis. I don't as much. Why do you think that is? Or do you doubt the stats given are right? If you believe the statistics, do you think that's okay?

"People's attitudes about the eucharist have been shaped through decades of haphazard treatment. Bring back communion rails. Use patinas. Bring back sacred liturgical music. end performative music."

Maybe I read too much into your words? I took your statement above to indicate that all that is needed is to, as you put it, bring back communion rails, patinas, and Gregorian chant.

Maybe you also teach RE at your parish, it has been my experience that indeed, poorly catechized generations of youth are passing through and not really grasping the words of Jesus. No amount of sacred architecture will impact our youth today if they do not encounter Jesus in this time. I posted a link to an update on the Synod going on and it is worth a listen to hear the Cardinal speak directly about the youth, world youth day, and why the Church is listening. They sense the very thing we are discussing and are working on how to "mission" to the church in our time.

There are some who seek a return to a time in the past, where women covered their heads and there was little or no reflection on the gospel offered. The hard questions were rebuffed as, "how dare you!" and nobody ever talked about the gift of human sexuality.

We live in different times and the new wine requires new wineskins!

PabloSerna said:

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"People's attitudes about the eucharist have been shaped through decades of haphazard treatment. Bring back communion rails. Use patinas. Bring back sacred liturgical music. end performative music."

Maybe I read too much into your words? I took your statement above to indicate that all that is needed is to, as you put it, bring back communion rails, patinas, and Gregorian chant.

Maybe you also teach RE at your parish, it has been my experience that indeed, poorly catechized generations of youth are passing through and not really grasping the words of Jesus. No amount of sacred architecture will impact our youth today if they do not encounter Jesus in this time. I posted a link to an update on the Synod going on and it is worth a listen to hear the Cardinal speak directly about the youth, world youth day, and why the Church is listening. They sense the very thing we are discussing and are working on how to "mission" to the church in our time.

There are some who seek a return to a time in the past, where women covered their heads and there was little or no reflection on the gospel offered. The hard questions were rebuffed as, "how dare you!" and nobody ever talked about the gift of human sexuality.

We live in different times and the new wine requires new wineskins!

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Maybe this wasn't your experience growing up, but I think there was and continues to be a kind of nonchalance or casualness about the way some priests handle the eucharist, say the Eucharistic prayer, present themselves (your chasuble shouldn't look like you got it for 50% off at party city). It rubs off on people. I'm just saying that if we're teaching people to believe that the eucharist is substantively the body of Christ, then we should take care to act like we're in His presence, distributing and consuming His body, blood, soul and divinity..

You might have read it already, but the center of attention comment I stole from the Pope's apostolic letter Desidario Desideravi paragraph 54. I don't think I'm out of line here.

When the post-Vatican II church allowed the traditional rubrics of the eucharistic liturgy such as removal of communion rails, non-use of patens, lay persons distributing the sacred bread and wine, to say nothing of the hideous music that infects just about every church I have attended since I can remember (born 1966), the message was "relax, take it easy, wear what you want. There's nothing special going on here."

Yes, I have experienced very reverent novus ordo Masses and yes, I understand that Vatican II is a valid, ecumenical council. I also understand that the modernism that infected the church is real and has done more to destroy reverence and proper belief about the Holy Eucharist than anything else.

PabloSerna said:

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"People's attitudes about the eucharist have been shaped through decades of haphazard treatment. Bring back communion rails. Use patinas. Bring back sacred liturgical music. end performative music."

Maybe I read too much into your words? I took your statement above to indicate that all that is needed is to, as you put it, bring back communion rails, patinas, and Gregorian chant.

Maybe you also teach RE at your parish, it has been my experience that indeed, poorly catechized generations of youth are passing through and not really grasping the words of Jesus. No amount of sacred architecture will impact our youth today if they do not encounter Jesus in this time. I posted a link to an update on the Synod going on and it is worth a listen to hear the Cardinal speak directly about the youth, world youth day, and why the Church is listening. They sense the very thing we are discussing and are working on how to "mission" to the church in our time.

There are some who seek a return to a time in the past, where women covered their heads and there was little or no reflection on the gospel offered. The hard questions were rebuffed as, "how dare you!" and nobody ever talked about the gift of human sexuality.

We live in different times and the new wine requires new wineskins!

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Catholic masses are borefests. They do a terrible job of teaching the spirit of Jesus and in helping people, let alone children, to seek, know, and follow Jesus. Of course, the church often guides people not to Jesus or God but, rather, to dead "saints", priests, and the Pope.

FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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When the post-Vatican II church allowed the traditional rubrics of the eucharistic liturgy such as removal of communion rails, non-use of patens, lay persons distributing the sacred bread and wine, to say nothing of the hideous music that infects just about every church I have attended since I can remember (born 1966), the message was "relax, take it easy, wear what you want. There's nothing special going on here."

Yes, I have experienced very reverent novus ordo Masses and yes, I understand that Vatican II is a valid, ecumenical council. I also understand that the modernism that infected the church is real and has done more to destroy reverence and proper belief about the Holy Eucharist than anything else.

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Did you see the movie "Jesus Revolution"?

FIDO95 said:

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Goosebumps every time!!

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That's amazing! Thanks for sharing!

Bob Lee said:

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People's attitudes about the eucharist have been shaped through decades of haphazard treatment. Bring back communion rails. Use patinas. Bring back sacred liturgical music. end performative music. Celebrants should purify the vessels. Stop using Eucharistic ministers to distribute communion at mass. Celebrants stop making yourself the center of attention.

My pet peeve is using 6 or 8 extraordinary ministers to distribute communion to save 5 minutes, then the celebrant can't be bothered to purify the vessels, followed by 7 minutes of announcements after the communion rite. And trying to prepare myself to receive Him over the sound of drums and acoustic guitar guy bouncing up and down to the cadence.

The Agnes Dei at one of our masses is sung to the music of the Titanic theme song. Not joking.

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In theory I agree with you. However, because of the shortage of priests, parishes (at least in the cities and suburbs) have gotten really large. You're probably adding closer to 10 minutes in the big parishes.

RAB91 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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People's attitudes about the eucharist have been shaped through decades of haphazard treatment. Bring back communion rails. Use patinas. Bring back sacred liturgical music. end performative music. Celebrants should purify the vessels. Stop using Eucharistic ministers to distribute communion at mass. Celebrants stop making yourself the center of attention.

My pet peeve is using 6 or 8 extraordinary ministers to distribute communion to save 5 minutes, then the celebrant can't be bothered to purify the vessels, followed by 7 minutes of announcements after the communion rite. And trying to prepare myself to receive Him over the sound of drums and acoustic guitar guy bouncing up and down to the cadence.

The Agnes Dei at one of our masses is sung to the music of the Titanic theme song. Not joking.

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In theory I agree with you. However, because of the shortage of priests, parishes (at least in the cities and suburbs) have gotten really large. You're probably adding closer to 10 minutes in the big parishes.

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Probably. It just feels like I'm in a chick FIL a drive through going to receive communion. Today we had 8 extraordinary ministers and 1 acolyte along with the Priest and Deacon. It's a circus. I personally would not care if it took 30 extra minutes, but I think priest, deacon, and 2 acolytes are completely sufficient for a parish the size our parish. I know that makes me a minority. I don't see the harm in taking longer to distribute communion.

Bob Lee said:

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RAB91 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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People's attitudes about the eucharist have been shaped through decades of haphazard treatment. Bring back communion rails. Use patinas. Bring back sacred liturgical music. end performative music. Celebrants should purify the vessels. Stop using Eucharistic ministers to distribute communion at mass. Celebrants stop making yourself the center of attention.

My pet peeve is using 6 or 8 extraordinary ministers to distribute communion to save 5 minutes, then the celebrant can't be bothered to purify the vessels, followed by 7 minutes of announcements after the communion rite. And trying to prepare myself to receive Him over the sound of drums and acoustic guitar guy bouncing up and down to the cadence.

The Agnes Dei at one of our masses is sung to the music of the Titanic theme song. Not joking.

---

In theory I agree with you. However, because of the shortage of priests, parishes (at least in the cities and suburbs) have gotten really large. You're probably adding closer to 10 minutes in the big parishes.

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Probably. It just feels like I'm in a chick FIL a drive through going to receive communion. Today we had 8 extraordinary ministers and 1 acolyte along with the Priest and Deacon. It's a circus. I personally would not care if it took 30 extra minutes, but I think priest, deacon, and 2 acolytes are completely sufficient for a parish the size our parish. I know that makes me a minority. I don't see the harm in taking longer to distribute communion.

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I would gladly trade a few extra minutes at communion for a few less minutes of our out of control music minister/choir.

Does your parish have regular Adoration? My parish has begun making our religious education students attend Adoration on a monthly basis. I don't know if it has increased reverence if the Holy Eucharist, but I have noticed an increase in our CCD students receiving communion.

Lola68 said:

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Does your parish have regular Adoration? My parish has begun making our religious education students attend Adoration on a monthly basis. I don't know if it has increased reverence if the Holy Eucharist, but I have noticed an increase in our CCD students receiving communion.

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Yes. We have an adoration chapel and perpetual adoration. We also have daily confession. We're not the parish with the most confession times in the diocese, but we're near the top. Our parish changed hands with our pastor being moved about a year or so ago, and the new pastor came through like a tornado, placing further restrictions on when the TLM can be celebrated (despite allowances by Cardinal DiNardo post TC). He got rid of the beautiful antiphons, restricted the limited use of Latin or Greek from the Novus Ordo except for 1 of the Sunday Masses, and added extraordinary ministers to distribute communion among many other changes.

Ironically, the TLMs were really well attended by the Spanish and English speaking communities at our parish, which was nice all of us there together. I thought it had the exact opposite effect as what Pope Francis gave as the reason for promulgating the Motu Proprio.

This pastor apparently allowed a puppet show ministry during the Mass at his former parish. For the record I don't believe any of this is nefarious on his part from what I know, but I don't think the changes have been for the better.