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World Economic Forum

M1Buckeye said:

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Disney.
Inbev (owner of Anheuser Busch)
NBA
NFL
MLB
Comcast
Joel Osteen
Catholic Church
Hollywood
Most universities
etc., etc. etc.

Maybe the Amish have had it right all along.

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Wow. Not afraid to just come right out again the Christ's Church without any context. Bold move Cotton. Well, opinions and elbows....you know the drill.

BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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Disney.
Inbev (owner of Anheuser Busch)
NBA
NFL
MLB
Comcast
Joel Osteen
Catholic Church
Hollywood
Most universities
etc., etc. etc.

Maybe the Amish have had it right all along.

---

Wow. Not afraid to just come right out again the Christ's Church without any context. Bold move Cotton. Well, opinions and elbows....you know the drill.

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There are many false teachers and pretenders in various "Christian" denominations that are "of the world" and not of God.

DirtDiver said:

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9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindlernot even to eat with such a one.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11

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Amen.

M1Buckeye said:

---

Disney.
Inbev (owner of Anheuser Busch)
NBA
NFL
MLB
Comcast
Joel Osteen
Catholic Church
Hollywood
Most universities
etc., etc. etc.

Maybe the Amish have had it right all along.

---

M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

---

Disney.
Inbev (owner of Anheuser Busch)
NBA
NFL
MLB
Comcast
Joel Osteen
Catholic Church
Hollywood
Most universities
etc., etc. etc.

Maybe the Amish have had it right all along.

---

Wow. Not afraid to just come right out again the Christ's Church without any context. Bold move Cotton. Well, opinions and elbows....you know the drill.

---

There are many false teachers and pretenders in various "Christian" denominations that are "of the world" and not of God.

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Those are individuals and are not the Church. Christ is the head of the Church. It still all goes back to the individual. When we sin, we are doing things that are not of God and of the world.
I'd be interested in your belief that the Catholic Church is part of the beast mentioned in revelation (I believe you mentioned this in your other post).

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Jesus's church is his body of followers which include many Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, non-denominational, etc. Jesus's church is NOT some worldly institution located in Vatican City or anywhere else. Believers in Christ, such as you (I presume) and I are his church.

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That is part of the members of His Church but is better defined as the Body of Christ. But what makes more sense...That Jesus only left the scriptures for us to figure out on our own and pick and choose how and what we interpret? Or that he left us an actually Church to continue the teachings (interpretation) of scripture as the Apostles where doing? Seems Jesus would not put us in a position to just continue to reinvent various interpretations but something that represents his teaching authority (like he tasked the Apostles and they tasked their successors? The problem with the idea its only made up of people who at bare minimum believe Christ is the Messiah who died and was resurrected is that there is significant disagreement about key elements of Christs teachings.
Technically, the Church and specifically the early Church...was just the Christian Church. So what would the Apostles be.....Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, non-denominational (which is just a vague term for not being bound to any organization and able to change statements of faith).?
I think its fair to say that the amalgam of denominations looks absolutely nothing like the early Church.

A church is an assembly, it's a physical thing. You can't have an assembly without assembling.

St Paul says "when you come together as church". A group of people with a common belief is not a church.

The church properly is actualized in communion, as the scriptures teach. One Lord, one Faith, one Baptism; because there is one Loaf there is one Body.

If you don't have those things, that's not the church presented in the scriptures.

One can be a faithful follower of Christ and be a member of his church without belonging to or attending a man's church.

no, you can't. you can't be an assembly of one. it's nonsense.

BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

---

Disney.
Inbev (owner of Anheuser Busch)
NBA
NFL
MLB
Comcast
Joel Osteen
Catholic Church
Hollywood
Most universities
etc., etc. etc.

Maybe the Amish have had it right all along.

---

Wow. Not afraid to just come right out again the Christ's Church without any context. Bold move Cotton. Well, opinions and elbows....you know the drill.

---

There are many false teachers and pretenders in various "Christian" denominations that are "of the world" and not of God.

---

Those are individuals and are not the Church. Christ is the head of the Church. It still all goes back to the individual. When we sin, we are doing things that are not of God and of the world.
I'd be interested in your belief that the Catholic Church is part of the beast mentioned in revelation (I believe you mentioned this in your other post).

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Jesus's church is his body of followers which include many Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, non-denominational, etc. Jesus's church is NOT some worldly institution located in Vatican City or anywhere else. Believers in Christ, such as you (I presume) and I are his church.

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But what makes more sense...That Jesus only left the scriptures for us to figure out on our own and pick and choose how and what we interpret?

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That's where you and I have a different perspective, my brother. I believe the scriptures are meant to be read and understood. I don't believe we need someone else to read it for us and then to tell us what it says. I don't recall any scripture wherein Jesus or the apostles said that we need such a person to interpret it for us.

Zobel said:

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no, you can't. you can't be an assembly of one. it's nonsense.

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Are you saying that a faithful Christian that doesn't attend a church is not a member of Jesus's church?

i'm saying that you can't be a member of an assembly if you are not a member of an assembly.

a church is an assembly, that's what the word means. if you don't belong or attend an assembly, you are not a part of an assembly.

i would also say you cannot be faithful as a christian and not attend church. we are commanded in the scriptures to assemble, we see from the very first images of the faithful the practice of assembly, and we are told in the scriptures that it is precisely in this assembly that the church is actualized.

Zobel said:

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i'm saying that you can't be a member of an assembly if you are not a member of an assembly.

a church is an assembly, that's what the word means. if you don't belong or attend an assembly, you are not a part of an assembly.

i would also say you cannot be faithful as a christian and not attend church. we are commanded in the scriptures to assemble, we see from the very first images of the faithful the practice of assembly, and we are told in the scriptures that it is precisely in this assembly that the church is actualized.

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Really? What did Jesus say are the most important laws?

non sequitur.

Nowhere in scripture are we ordered to attend a church. Paul encourages it but it's not a requirement.

Anyone who is a faithful believer and follower of Jesus IS a member of his church.

End of story.

Also, faithful believer in scriptural terms is redundant, it's the same word. So a faithful faithful person isn't the one who assents to some facts intellectually, it is the one who is faithful. The scriptures say we are faithful, that we know we love Him, because we follow the commandments. One commandment is to celebrate the Eucharist. You cannot celebrate the Eucharist alone. You cannot be a Christian alone. It is a fundamentally communal faith.

M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

---

Disney.
Inbev (owner of Anheuser Busch)
NBA
NFL
MLB
Comcast
Joel Osteen
Catholic Church
Hollywood
Most universities
etc., etc. etc.

Maybe the Amish have had it right all along.

---

Wow. Not afraid to just come right out again the Christ's Church without any context. Bold move Cotton. Well, opinions and elbows....you know the drill.

---

There are many false teachers and pretenders in various "Christian" denominations that are "of the world" and not of God.

---

Those are individuals and are not the Church. Christ is the head of the Church. It still all goes back to the individual. When we sin, we are doing things that are not of God and of the world.
I'd be interested in your belief that the Catholic Church is part of the beast mentioned in revelation (I believe you mentioned this in your other post).

---

Jesus's church is his body of followers which include many Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, non-denominational, etc. Jesus's church is NOT some worldly institution located in Vatican City or anywhere else. Believers in Christ, such as you (I presume) and I are his church.

---

But what makes more sense...That Jesus only left the scriptures for us to figure out on our own and pick and choose how and what we interpret?

---

That's where you and I have a different perspective, my brother. I believe the scriptures are meant to be read and understood. I don't believe we need someone else to read it for us and then to tell us what it says. I don't recall any scripture wherein Jesus or the apostles said that we need such a person to interpret it for us.

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Acts 8:30-31

Jesus did interpret scripture for some in the Bible. Then he left his apostles and his Church to continue this tradition. No one is saying there aren't passages that are clear, many are. But the idea of the perspicuity of scripture should then assume no one would disagree about how to interpret them. I guess the response could be, well, the Holy Spirit will inform me about what a difficult passage means when the time is right. Even the idea of Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible but people still read into that way.

Wonderful site with the writings of the Church Fathers.