Win At Life said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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Good Bull Jones 17 said:

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Looking for some advice on ways to best live out a marriage between a Protestant and Catholic.

I was raised Catholic, my wife was raised evangelical/Baptist. We started dating in college and got married in the Catholic Church. At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically. I tell her I want to be Catholic again, and she doesn't see how we can make a faith-mixed marriage work.

Anyone else been in this situation, know someone else who is, or have some thoughts?

TIA

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How about you both follow Christ, live a Godly Biblical Christian marriage, and stop letting loyalty to a denomination cause division? This is why I hate when people first say they are (X) instead of a follower of Christ, if being labeled catholic, protestant, baptist, etc is your first response instead of a believer in Christ then you need to reexamine. When you meet christ he's not going to embrace you as a good catholic or protestant.

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I hear what your saying...But doctrine is important. Lots of people claim to follow Christ, and from the outside most might think they miss the mark.. I think how you follow Christ would tend to align with a denomination ...whether we use that denomination to describe how we follow Christ. Christ gave us a Church to help us

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I hear you, doctrine is deathly important. Hence why I don't consider Mormon or JWs Christian denominations.

I not saying there shouldn't be sound biblical doctrine or order, as God has set the order.

I really wish we could get back to a true apostolic type church and faith.

You'll find more heretical "church tradition" followed because that's what always been done.

A little yeast leaven's the whole lot.

I'm not trying to cause a fight because lord knows theres to much harsh division among believers than needs to be.

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I agree, especially on getting back to the type of faith practiced by the apostles

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You want to worship with Jews in a synagogue on the Sabbath?

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Blue said practiced by the apostles, not practiced by Saul.

Romans 14:5
One man considers one day more sacred than another, another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

Shalom

Win At Life said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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Good Bull Jones 17 said:

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Looking for some advice on ways to best live out a marriage between a Protestant and Catholic.

I was raised Catholic, my wife was raised evangelical/Baptist. We started dating in college and got married in the Catholic Church. At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically. I tell her I want to be Catholic again, and she doesn't see how we can make a faith-mixed marriage work.

Anyone else been in this situation, know someone else who is, or have some thoughts?

TIA

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How about you both follow Christ, live a Godly Biblical Christian marriage, and stop letting loyalty to a denomination cause division? This is why I hate when people first say they are (X) instead of a follower of Christ, if being labeled catholic, protestant, baptist, etc is your first response instead of a believer in Christ then you need to reexamine. When you meet christ he's not going to embrace you as a good catholic or protestant.

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I hear what your saying...But doctrine is important. Lots of people claim to follow Christ, and from the outside most might think they miss the mark.. I think how you follow Christ would tend to align with a denomination ...whether we use that denomination to describe how we follow Christ. Christ gave us a Church to help us

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I hear you, doctrine is deathly important. Hence why I don't consider Mormon or JWs Christian denominations.

I not saying there shouldn't be sound biblical doctrine or order, as God has set the order.

I really wish we could get back to a true apostolic type church and faith.

You'll find more heretical "church tradition" followed because that's what always been done.

A little yeast leaven's the whole lot.

I'm not trying to cause a fight because lord knows theres to much harsh division among believers than needs to be.

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I agree, especially on getting back to the type of faith practiced by the apostles

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You want to worship with Jews in a synagogue on the Sabbath?

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Christians where allowed to worship in the synagogue? That would be a hard ask since the Jews persecuted early Christians.

Plus what would you say to a messianic Jew who still observes Jewish heritage while accepting Christ as their savior?

I have seen plenty of Messianic Jews who still read the Torah portion and do the sabbath ritual, are they in error too?

AG @ HEART said:

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Win At Life said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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BluHorseShu said:

---

AG @ HEART said:

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Good Bull Jones 17 said:

---

Looking for some advice on ways to best live out a marriage between a Protestant and Catholic.

I was raised Catholic, my wife was raised evangelical/Baptist. We started dating in college and got married in the Catholic Church. At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically. I tell her I want to be Catholic again, and she doesn't see how we can make a faith-mixed marriage work.

Anyone else been in this situation, know someone else who is, or have some thoughts?

TIA

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How about you both follow Christ, live a Godly Biblical Christian marriage, and stop letting loyalty to a denomination cause division? This is why I hate when people first say they are (X) instead of a follower of Christ, if being labeled catholic, protestant, baptist, etc is your first response instead of a believer in Christ then you need to reexamine. When you meet christ he's not going to embrace you as a good catholic or protestant.

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I hear what your saying...But doctrine is important. Lots of people claim to follow Christ, and from the outside most might think they miss the mark.. I think how you follow Christ would tend to align with a denomination ...whether we use that denomination to describe how we follow Christ. Christ gave us a Church to help us

---

I hear you, doctrine is deathly important. Hence why I don't consider Mormon or JWs Christian denominations.

I not saying there shouldn't be sound biblical doctrine or order, as God has set the order.

I really wish we could get back to a true apostolic type church and faith.

You'll find more heretical "church tradition" followed because that's what always been done.

A little yeast leaven's the whole lot.

I'm not trying to cause a fight because lord knows theres to much harsh division among believers than needs to be.

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I agree, especially on getting back to the type of faith practiced by the apostles

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You want to worship with Jews in a synagogue on the Sabbath?

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Christians where allowed to worship in the synagogue? That would be a hard ask since the Jews persecuted early Christians.

Plus what would you say to a messianic Jew who still observes Jewish heritage while accepting Christ as their savior?

I have seen plenty of Messianic Jews who still read the Torah portion and do the sabbath ritual, are they in error too?

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Christians where allowed to worship in the synagogue? That would be a hard ask since the Jews persecuted early Christians. Yes they were according to the biblical account of how the apostles practiced their type of faith.

Plus what would you say to a messianic Jew who still observes Jewish heritage while accepting Christ as their savior? I would say they look like they are getting back to the type of faith practiced by the apostles.

I have seen plenty of Messianic Jews who still read the Torah portion and do the sabbath ritual, are they in error too? Not at all, unless you consider getting back to the type of faith practiced by the apostles to be an error.

diehard03 said:

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You essentially said "getting back to when everyone would be Catholic", no? Thats my point.

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We should be able to be confident about doctrinal issues while also realizing when people are on their own path and that doesn't make it inherently wrong. I still go back to 'Seek first the kingdom of God'. I can't faulty anyone genuinely doing that. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox...All brothers and sisters in Christ

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You may believe this, but I am come to understand that Catholic beliefs do not. We are not part of the Church, the Bride of Christ, etc. We would be drinking condemnation upon ourselves for taking the Eucharist. Its our fault for rejecting Catholocism.

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Well, I didn't overtly state that...But did the apostles have it wrong in how they practiced their Christianity? Regardless of the RCC....does it not make sense to consider the Christology of those closest to and who knew Christ and the apostles, rather than doctrine that wasn't established until 1500 years later?
I mean I guess its possible for a person alone on a deserted island to read the Bible for the first time and understand the scriptures 100% accurately as God intended....But I don't think that is the probability for most people...Which is why others can help us discern the intention...like the Church fathers.

Win At Life said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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Good Bull Jones 17 said:

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Looking for some advice on ways to best live out a marriage between a Protestant and Catholic.

I was raised Catholic, my wife was raised evangelical/Baptist. We started dating in college and got married in the Catholic Church. At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically. I tell her I want to be Catholic again, and she doesn't see how we can make a faith-mixed marriage work.

Anyone else been in this situation, know someone else who is, or have some thoughts?

TIA

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How about you both follow Christ, live a Godly Biblical Christian marriage, and stop letting loyalty to a denomination cause division? This is why I hate when people first say they are (X) instead of a follower of Christ, if being labeled catholic, protestant, baptist, etc is your first response instead of a believer in Christ then you need to reexamine. When you meet christ he's not going to embrace you as a good catholic or protestant.

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I hear what your saying...But doctrine is important. Lots of people claim to follow Christ, and from the outside most might think they miss the mark.. I think how you follow Christ would tend to align with a denomination ...whether we use that denomination to describe how we follow Christ. Christ gave us a Church to help us

---

I hear you, doctrine is deathly important. Hence why I don't consider Mormon or JWs Christian denominations.

I not saying there shouldn't be sound biblical doctrine or order, as God has set the order.

I really wish we could get back to a true apostolic type church and faith.

You'll find more heretical "church tradition" followed because that's what always been done.

A little yeast leaven's the whole lot.

I'm not trying to cause a fight because lord knows theres to much harsh division among believers than needs to be.

---

I agree, especially on getting back to the type of faith practiced by the apostles

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You want to worship with Jews in a synagogue on the Sabbath?

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Well...if you actually look at the tradition the apostles passed down...They celebrated on the day of Christ's resurrection....or the Lords Day...what your people may call 'Sunday'.

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Well, I didn't overtly state that...But did the apostles have it wrong in how they practiced their Christianity? Regardless of the RCC....does it not make sense to consider the Christology of those closest to and who knew Christ and the apostles, rather than doctrine that wasn't established until 1500 years later?

I mean I guess its possible for a person alone on a deserted island to read the Bible for the first time and understand the scriptures 100% accurately as God intended....But I don't think that is the probability for most people...Which is why others can help us discern the intention...like the Church fathers.

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You're just confirming my point of "my team good, your team bad". You implied it before, now you're overtly saying it.

I don't mind you having that view, just be honest about it. You are also glossing over my point that my faith tradition is not the one saying we are not one in Christ, yours is. You can't sit there and chant kumbaya yet hold your faith is the only one whos actually in the Body of Christ.

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At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically.

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Is your faith in Catholicism or in Jesus?

Read the Bible, study the bible, understand the Bible.


How to find a church tips?

1. To they teach a clear presentation of the gospel? That a person is only saved by placing their faith in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins? If they don't teach this, run.
2. Does the church have authority over the scriptures or the scriptures have authority over the church? If the church disagrees with the Biblical text, run!
3. Do they teach the deity of Christ? If not, run.

Jesus doesn't care about denominations. He seems to be vary anti-religious. He cares about worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth and he said in Jn 17. God's word is true.

Denominal pride is a divisive, worthless idol.

DirtDiver said:

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Quote:

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At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically.

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Is your faith in Catholicism or in Jesus?

Read the Bible, study the bible, understand the Bible.


How to find a church tips?

1. To they teach a clear presentation of the gospel? That a person is only saved by placing their faith in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins? If they don't teach this, run.
2. Does the church have authority over the scriptures or the scriptures have authority over the church? If the church disagrees with the Biblical text, run!
3. Do they teach the deity of Christ? If not, run.

Jesus doesn't care about denominations. He seems to be vary anti-religious. He cares about worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth and he said in Jn 17. God's word is true.

Denominal pride is a divisive, worthless idol.

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Catholic means the 'whole' of those who have faith in Jesus.
1. A person is only saved by grace alone through faith...which is what the Church and scripture teaches. The debate often gets confused by substituting 'believe' for 'faith'.
2. The Church as a matter of faith cannot contradict scripture. As far as authority, the bible is of course the inerrant Word of God. Christ also gave us his Church and sacred tradition. For a long time, oral tradition was the only way people heard the Word of God. Scripture states that it is sufficient, but never states it is the sole authority (thus the Church...which Christ is at the head of). Paul actually uses the terms 'tradition' and 'Church' much more often than 'scripture'.
3. Absolutely. "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God...all as one God.

DirtDiver said:

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Quote:

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At that time, she wanted to be Catholic but never got comfortable making the jump. 2 years into marriage, we started attending a Lutheran Church, and I thought that I had convinced myself the Catholic Church wasn't for me. 2 more years later, and I'm not feeling like I'm living my faith authentically.

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Is your faith in Catholicism or in Jesus?

Read the Bible, study the bible, understand the Bible.


How to find a church tips?

1. To they teach a clear presentation of the gospel? That a person is only saved by placing their faith in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins? If they don't teach this, run.
2. Does the church have authority over the scriptures or the scriptures have authority over the church? If the church disagrees with the Biblical text, run!
3. Do they teach the deity of Christ? If not, run.

Jesus doesn't care about denominations. He seems to be vary anti-religious. He cares about worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth and he said in Jn 17. God's word is true.

Denominal pride is a divisive, worthless idol.

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You are obviously putting words in God's mouth here. There is no indication that Jesus doesn't care about denominations in the scriptures. He's not happy with the divisions within Judaism during his earthly period. And if you read church history its all the actions of man that cause the divisions.

And He is not anti-religious. This is a huge deal with protestantism. They read the scriptures and go, look at the pride these Jews have in their rituals! And instead of throwing out the pride, protestants throw out the rituals. The rituals and ceremonies are still important. They still work on your heart. They still are worship of God.

Most of our division is self-inflicted. We are choosing to say we are not united. We are choosing to say that this group is not a Christian (or in the Body of Christ, or in Christ or whatever).

Both sides are guilty of this.

A church without a border is no church at all. You have to be able to say who is and is not in the church. This is scriptural. You undoubtedly have your own lines, you just get mad when someone else's borders don't include you.

The problem is not that borders exist. The problem is that people practice a different faith which creates disparate borders.

My comment was under the premise of Catholic vs Protestant, that's been the flow of the conversation. In that context, I do think we are making bigger issue than it needs to be about unity. We aren't in so much disagreement on WHO deserves the worship but rather HOW. It seems kinda silly to me.

I do take issue with your comment about "me being mad that someone else doesn't include you". I am not mad at this. Every faith is welcome to make their own borders. But we should talk about it rightly. If your borders are ultra narrow in that not being in your faith removes people from the Body of Christ and gives doubt to one's salvation, then don't pretend that there's unity and don't act like its our problem that your borders are narrow. Own it. Say you don't think were Christians. It's ok if that's what your faith believes.

diehard03 said:

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My comment was under the premise of Catholic vs Protestant, that's been the flow of the conversation. In that context, I do think we are making bigger issue than it needs to be about unity. We aren't in so much disagreement on WHO deserves the worship but rather HOW. It seems kinda silly to me.

I do take issue with your comment about "me being mad that someone else doesn't include you". I am not mad at this. Every faith is welcome to make their own borders. But we should talk about it rightly. If your borders are ultra narrow in that not being in your faith removes people from the Body of Christ and gives doubt to one's salvation, then don't pretend that there's unity and don't act like its our problem that your borders are narrow. Own it. Say you don't think were Christians. It's ok if that's what your faith believes.

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Except absolutely no one is saying Protestants aren't Christians or that Catholics aren't Christians ….(we can all agree Jehovahs Witnesses are not). I wouldn't have been able to get married to my wife in the Catholic Church if I wasn't a Christian (Protestant at the time).

shrug, maybe you're not mad but you seem at least miffed.

the issue is more about you reacting to statements. anyone can be a christian, it is kind of a useless descriptor these days. but not everyone is in the church. beliefs don't have borders - anyone can believe anything, or claim to, and there's no way to contradict them. but the church does. you are either in it or you are not. you are not in my church. i am not in your church.

whether that gives doubt to your salvation is a different subject altogether.

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the issue is more about you reacting to statements. anyone can be a christian, it is kind of a useless descriptor these days. but not everyone is in the church. beliefs don't have borders - anyone can believe anything, or claim to, and there's no way to contradict them. but the church does. you are either in it or you are not. you are not in my church. i am not in your church.

whether that gives doubt to your salvation is a different subject altogether.

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We've danced around this subject before and it's ended with you confirming that we are not just outside of YOUR church, but THE Church, as described in Scripture. There would be no reason for to be mad, miffed or whatever else you want to call it if we are just talking about not being part of each other's denominations. it's what that actually means. And, the last time we had this back and forth, it ended with the idea that we aren't the same religion entirely and that any similarities we may hold in who Jesus is and what he's done are rendered moot.

Now, if this is not the case, then I've just come away with the wrong impression and thats on me.

Well, seeing as it is literally an article of my faith that there is one church, and you're not in my church, that does put you out of the church. you balk at that border because it excludes you, but happily apply your own that excludes others. this approach is just least common denominator wins, which results in a useless category of "christian" which includes everyone but explains nothing.

again, a church without borders is not the church. Certainly not the church of the NT.

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Except absolutely no one is saying Protestants aren't Christians or that Catholics aren't Christians ….(we can all agree Jehovahs Witnesses are not). I wouldn't have been able to get married to my wife in the Catholic Church if I wasn't a Christian (Protestant at the time).

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I am getting to the deeper meaning of what it all means. Are we in the Body of Christ as you believe you are? Are in "in Christ" as many famous Scriptures reference? What's the eternal consequence? What does it mean we essentially reject (your words) "the Church"?

Additionally, you would know better than anyone the promises you had to make for that marriage to even occur, so all that's not giving you pause that maybe there's doctrinal stances that Catholics hold that make us in disunity?

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Well, seeing as it is literally an article of my faith that there is one church, and you're not in my church, that does put you out of the church. you balk at that border because it excludes you, but happily apply your own that excludes others. this approach is just least common denominator wins, which results in a useless category of "christian" which includes everyone but explains nothing.

again, a church without borders is not the church. Certainly not the church of the NT.

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I am not balking at your border. I am perfectly fine with your border. There is a generally understood definition of Christian that most people use. We don't need to debate the fringes or throw our hands up like we can't define "christian" reasonably. When groups are excluded from Christianity, it's usually because they hold to contrary beliefs about Jesus himself or his divinity - ie, things that most people can understand. Your border is just around your denomination or ones you deem yourself in communion with. That means all Protestants are not "christians", essentially.

I am just asking that we are honest about is all and don't pretend otherwise. I know you personally are not doing this, but others are. I am not mad or miffed or anything about your choice to but your borders where you want.

I don't think the word Christian is the same as those in the church. I wouldn't argue with anyone who says they're a Christian, it'a kind of unprovable. What is clear is if you're in the church or not. And it's not whether I deem or not - you're either in communion or you're not.

It seems as if you're dividing the concept of the church from the concept of the body of Christ.

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It seems as if you're dividing the concept of the church from the concept of the body of Christ.

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I assume you see no division, so outside of your church is outside the Body of Christ? According to you, could I be outside of your church and still be "in Christ", Scripturally speaking?

the scriptures are clear that the body of Christ is the church, and that we were baptized into that body. If you're not in the church, you're not a member of the same body as me. This quickly becomes a question of whether or not your baptism is valid; it's not a question I have an answer to without knowing more. Our church sometimes receives by chrismation, sometimes by baptism. It depends on the circumstance.

Im talking about objective realities. You are asking about something that is not so objective, so you'll need to clarify what you mean by "in christ."

I think you've answered it sufficiently. Based on your questions, "in Christ" might be a red herring as it sounds like it means something different to you.

For the sake of argument, if someone came up to you and said that they prayed the sinners prayer, they would not be in the same body...and getting a traditional baptist-type baptism would not suffice. Therefore, they would be outside the Body of Christ and essentially outside of all that entails. I understand that salvation itself gets sticky, so we don't have to go that far.

Baptists don't believe that there is any grace in their baptism, that it's just a symbol. Why would I argue with them?

Our belief doesn't change reality and God doesn't need our permission to do His work. Baptism works and doesn't require the people performing the baptism to understand it.


there's a name for that heresy and I can't remember what its called.

You're probably thinking of the Donatist controversy. The conclusion the western church came to was - among other things - intent is required - that is to say, person administering baptism needed to intend to do what the church does when she baptizes. Error in understanding of the Trinity or other doctrinal matters, or the sinfulness of the priest, do not prohibit baptism because it is Christ who baptizes.

Nevertheless, the key point here is the intent to do what the church does when it baptizes. I would argue that baptists are not trying to do a baptism. The church has everywhere taught that baptism is a sacrament or mystery, an activity through which grace is conferred and the power and grace of God works in a real way. A person who is neither wanting or expecting this grace to happen is not doing the same thing that the church does when it baptizes, even if they call it baptism and do it in water. They're not even trying to, they don't think they are, and they don't want to be.

It should also be noted that in the council of Arles the acceptance of baptism from those in heresy still required those being received into the church to have the laying on of hands (ie chrismation) for the receipt of the Holy Spirit. The implications of that should be fairly obvious.

Find a denomination you can both enjoy Lutheran or Anglican are a good start. Search for truth not comfort.
Why are you catholic? Why do you believe grace plus works?

Read Augustine.

TrailerTrash said:

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Find a denomination you can both enjoy Lutheran or Anglican are a good start. Search for truth not comfort.
Why are you catholic? Why do you believe grace plus works?

Read Augustine.

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You read Augustine first. Especially the book he wrote called On Faith and Works, in which he explicitly rejects Sola Fide.

https://books.google.com/books?id=45DDejGaGQkC&lpg=PA28&ots=55y4VjiyRd&dq=Let%20us%20now%20consider%20the%20question%20of%20faith.%20In%20the%20first%20place%2C%20we%20feel%20that%20we%20should%20advise%20the%20faithful%20that%20they%20would%20endanger%20the%20salvation%20of%20their%20souls%20if%20they%20acted%20on%20the%20false%20assurance%20that%20faith%20alone%20is%20sufficient%20for%20salvation%20or%20that%20they%20need%20not%20perform%20good%20works%20in%20order%20to%20be%20saved.%20This%2C%20in%20fact%2C%20is%20what%20some%20had%20thought%20even%20in%20the%20time%20of%20the%20apostles.%20For%20at%20that%20time%20there%20were%20some%20who%20did%20not%20understand%20certain%20rather%20obscure%20passages%20of%20St.%20Paul%2C%20and%20who%20thought%20therefore%20that%20he%20had%20said%3A%20Let%20us%20do%20evil%20that%20there%20may%20come%20good&pg=PA28#v=onepage&q&f=false

In reading some of the words here, I am reminded of Christ's words in prayer, "that they will all be one" (JN 17:21) and how far we still have to go.

In my opinion, the defining characteristic of a Christian is selfless love for all that knows no boundary. Instead of focusing on doctrinal differences we should use every effort tear down the walls between us and build bridges in order to find that common ground. Some would say that this is an idealistic view of evangelization, however, I believe it is the next step in building up the Kingdom of God based entirely on love (agape) for mankind.

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Baptists don't believe that there is any grace in their baptism, that it's just a symbol. Why would I argue with them?

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No Idea, but you've been arguing with me for sometime.

You understand the question. if you're not willing to answer it, then that's fine.

What question? I've answered every one posed. Be specific.

diehard03 said:

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I think you've answered it sufficiently. Based on your questions, "in Christ" might be a red herring as it sounds like it means something different to you.

For the sake of argument, if someone came up to you and said that they prayed the sinners prayer, they would not be in the same body...and getting a traditional baptist-type baptism would not suffice. Therefore, they would be outside the Body of Christ and essentially outside of all that entails. I understand that salvation itself gets sticky, so we don't have to go that far.

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Diehard, you're nondenom right?

I would ask, what is the sinner's prayer actually doing? And what is baptism not doing?

Because if someone approached me and said they had never stepped foot in a church, but said the sinners prayer earnestly I would say "praise God, lets go to Church!"

And that would start the process of inquiry ->catechumen ->membership in the church through confession/baptism/chrismation.

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What question? I've answered every one posed. Be specific.

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Don't worry about it. I already know where you stand and my objection initially wasn't with you. it was with people who have a definition of Christian that most reasonably accept, talk about how we are all Christians and all about Jesus, but then hold faiths whos believes dont' actually reflect that.

You are none of these things. Have a good day.

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Diehard, you're nondenom right?

I would ask, what is the sinner's prayer actually doing? And what is baptism not doing?

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Depends on how technical you want to get with predestination and whatnot, but the act of submission - whatever the act is - is where God steps in. it's in alignment with Romans 10 (confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord...), Ask/Seek/Knock verses and stories like the Thief on the Cross. Baptism isn't doing the savings because one already has been.

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Because if someone approached me and said they had never stepped foot in a church, but said the sinners prayer earnestly I would say "praise God, lets go to Church!"

And that would start the process of inquiry ->catechumen ->membership in the church through confession/baptism/chrismation.

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Just to answer your question directly, we would say the same thing. Not because salvation is at risk, but because we believe it's the starting line, not the finish line. I believe this consistent with Pauls' letters about extoling Christs saving work in the lives of saints, yet still instructing/correcting/teaching.

Personally, I think counting the cost is important. Understanding one's need for salvation is important. Would I question their salvation? That's not my role. But, I would bring up contrary statements/views to Christ's teaching if they express them.

Specific church membership is not important, but you hold a different definition of "church" than I do. (in terms of bigger corporate body of christ where many denominations exist, vs one where one's particular church, and those "in communion with" ARE the body of Christ)

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(in terms of bigger corporate body of christ where many denominations exist, vs one where one's particular church, and those "in communion with" ARE the body of Christ)

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in the model of a "bigger" body, what defines the boundary of what IS the body of Christ?