Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
You're gonna have to give us a bit more here.TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned. Rom. 5:12americathegreat1492 said:
Define original sin.
The sin nature all humanity of born with as a result of humanity being cursed.americathegreat1492 said:
Define original sin.
TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
'not biblical' is a matter of interpretation scripture rather than scripture lacking support. Original sin is not Adams transferred but the consequence. Romans 5:19. Paul also taught this.codker92 said:TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
Because, the doctrine of original sin is fundamentally flawed. It carries with it the idea that everyone also inherits the guilt of adam, which is not biblical and is fundamentally false.
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says, all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:12-28
In verse 22, Adam's sin resulted in death, just like Romans says; it does not say that it resulted in GUILT. Along the same lines, because of Christ's resurrection in the flesh, all shall be raised. Death was conquered by Christ (Rom. 6:9) and Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection.
Wisdom of Solomon States "God created man for incorruption ... but death entered the world by the envy of the devil. 2:23-24.
You care to quote Romans 5:19 for me?BluHorseShu said:'not biblical' is a matter of interpretation scripture rather than scripture lacking support. Original sin is not Adams transferred but the consequence. Romans 5:19. Paul also taught this.codker92 said:TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
Because, the doctrine of original sin is fundamentally flawed. It carries with it the idea that everyone also inherits the guilt of adam, which is not biblical and is fundamentally false.
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says, all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:12-28
In verse 22, Adam's sin resulted in death, just like Romans says; it does not say that it resulted in GUILT. Along the same lines, because of Christ's resurrection in the flesh, all shall be raised. Death was conquered by Christ (Rom. 6:9) and Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection.
Wisdom of Solomon States "God created man for incorruption ... but death entered the world by the envy of the devil. 2:23-24.
ETA: in Adam all have sinned…but in Christ all have life
You appear well versed so I'm assuming your talking about "through obedience of one man, the many will be made righteous". Obviously that's true but it doesn't negate that Adam brought sin into the world. If we do not accept Christ then we are condemned through one man's trespass (but not excluded our own). In a vacuum (living a sinless life), original sin is contracted by us, not committed. It's a state, not an act. Are we not all born sinners ? I concede that you seem to be a person who is committed to their views of scripture and thus nothing I state would cause you to deviate. It's rare anyone here would based on another's post. I'm just contributing to the discussioncodker92 said:You care to quote Romans 5:19 for me?BluHorseShu said:'not biblical' is a matter of interpretation scripture rather than scripture lacking support. Original sin is not Adams transferred but the consequence. Romans 5:19. Paul also taught this.codker92 said:TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
Because, the doctrine of original sin is fundamentally flawed. It carries with it the idea that everyone also inherits the guilt of adam, which is not biblical and is fundamentally false.
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says, all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:12-28
In verse 22, Adam's sin resulted in death, just like Romans says; it does not say that it resulted in GUILT. Along the same lines, because of Christ's resurrection in the flesh, all shall be raised. Death was conquered by Christ (Rom. 6:9) and Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection.
Wisdom of Solomon States "God created man for incorruption ... but death entered the world by the envy of the devil. 2:23-24.
ETA: in Adam all have sinned…but in Christ all have life
Romans 5:19 isn't opposed to the idea Bluhorseshu discusses. Adam's sin is not our guilt, but we all feel the effects of that sin. We do not each get the chance to individually fall from the garden.codker92 said:You care to quote Romans 5:19 for me?BluHorseShu said:'not biblical' is a matter of interpretation scripture rather than scripture lacking support. Original sin is not Adams transferred but the consequence. Romans 5:19. Paul also taught this.codker92 said:TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
Because, the doctrine of original sin is fundamentally flawed. It carries with it the idea that everyone also inherits the guilt of adam, which is not biblical and is fundamentally false.
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says, all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:12-28
In verse 22, Adam's sin resulted in death, just like Romans says; it does not say that it resulted in GUILT. Along the same lines, because of Christ's resurrection in the flesh, all shall be raised. Death was conquered by Christ (Rom. 6:9) and Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection.
Wisdom of Solomon States "God created man for incorruption ... but death entered the world by the envy of the devil. 2:23-24.
ETA: in Adam all have sinned…but in Christ all have life
BluHorseShu said:You appear well versed so I'm assuming your talking about "through obedience of one man, the many will be made righteous". Obviously that's true but it doesn't negate that Adam brought sin into the world. If we do not accept Christ then we are condemned through one man's trespass (but not excluded our own). In a vacuum (living a sinless life), original sin is contracted by us, not committed. It's a state, not an act. Are we not all born sinners ? I concede that you seem to be a person who is committed to their views of scripture and thus nothing I state would cause you to deviate. It's rare anyone here would based on another's post. I'm just contributing to the discussioncodker92 said:You care to quote Romans 5:19 for me?BluHorseShu said:'not biblical' is a matter of interpretation scripture rather than scripture lacking support. Original sin is not Adams transferred but the consequence. Romans 5:19. Paul also taught this.codker92 said:TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
Because, the doctrine of original sin is fundamentally flawed. It carries with it the idea that everyone also inherits the guilt of adam, which is not biblical and is fundamentally false.
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says, all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:12-28
In verse 22, Adam's sin resulted in death, just like Romans says; it does not say that it resulted in GUILT. Along the same lines, because of Christ's resurrection in the flesh, all shall be raised. Death was conquered by Christ (Rom. 6:9) and Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection.
Wisdom of Solomon States "God created man for incorruption ... but death entered the world by the envy of the devil. 2:23-24.
ETA: in Adam all have sinned…but in Christ all have life
Quote:
I do not believe any faith in Christ is necessary for resurrections or for salvation for that matter
TrailerTrash said:
Why do people no longer believe in original sin?
DirtDiver said:Quote:
I do not believe any faith in Christ is necessary for resurrections or for salvation for that matter
Do you believe in any salvation? If so, explain.
Yikes…So the touchstone John 3:16 has been interpreted incorrectly for 2000 years?codker92 said:DirtDiver said:Quote:
I do not believe any faith in Christ is necessary for resurrections or for salvation for that matter
Do you believe in any salvation? If so, explain.
Salvation comes to those whose names are written in the book of life. Isaiah 4:3; Ezekiel 9; Daniel 12:1; Revelation 20:11-25. In Daniel 7:9-11 it is described as follows:
9 "As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand
stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
11 I looked then because of the sound of
the great words that the horn was speaking.
And as I looked the beast was killed, and its
body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire.
BluHorseShu said:Yikes…So the touchstone John 3:16 has been interpreted incorrectly for 2000 years?codker92 said:DirtDiver said:Quote:
I do not believe any faith in Christ is necessary for resurrections or for salvation for that matter
Do you believe in any salvation? If so, explain.
Salvation comes to those whose names are written in the book of life. Isaiah 4:3; Ezekiel 9; Daniel 12:1; Revelation 20:11-25. In Daniel 7:9-11 it is described as follows:
9 "As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand
stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
11 I looked then because of the sound of
the great words that the horn was speaking.
And as I looked the beast was killed, and its
body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire.
Forcodker92 said:BluHorseShu said:Yikes…So the touchstone John 3:16 has been interpreted incorrectly for 2000 years?codker92 said:DirtDiver said:Quote:
I do not believe any faith in Christ is necessary for resurrections or for salvation for that matter
Do you believe in any salvation? If so, explain.
Salvation comes to those whose names are written in the book of life. Isaiah 4:3; Ezekiel 9; Daniel 12:1; Revelation 20:11-25. In Daniel 7:9-11 it is described as follows:
9 "As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand
stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
11 I looked then because of the sound of
the great words that the horn was speaking.
And as I looked the beast was killed, and its
body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire.
Tell me how people were saved before the Christ was revealed and I will tell you how God sent His Son more than once to the earth. You believe that God only sent His Son to this earth once? What I am getting at is you are reading John 3:16 with the incorrect assumption that God sent His Son only once to this earth.
BluHorseShu said:Forcodker92 said:BluHorseShu said:Yikes…So the touchstone John 3:16 has been interpreted incorrectly for 2000 years?codker92 said:DirtDiver said:Quote:
I do not believe any faith in Christ is necessary for resurrections or for salvation for that matter
Do you believe in any salvation? If so, explain.
Salvation comes to those whose names are written in the book of life. Isaiah 4:3; Ezekiel 9; Daniel 12:1; Revelation 20:11-25. In Daniel 7:9-11 it is described as follows:
9 "As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand
stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
11 I looked then because of the sound of
the great words that the horn was speaking.
And as I looked the beast was killed, and its
body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire.
Tell me how people were saved before the Christ was revealed and I will tell you how God sent His Son more than once to the earth. You believe that God only sent His Son to this earth once? What I am getting at is you are reading John 3:16 with the incorrect assumption that God sent His Son only once to this earth.
Those before Christ, God sent his prophets. Faith in and keeping Gods word made those righteous but salvation wasn't achieved until Christ died. Until then they were in "the bosom of Abraham". Christ is one with God but I'm not understanding your contention that Christ , as the only begotten Son, came more than once. Wait…Are you LDS?
Kind of like the sinner's prayer and the altar call.Zobel said:
I note you didn't cite scripture for the latter part.
Zobel said:
I note you didn't cite scripture for the latter part.
dermdoc said:
Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for ALL people.
Praise the Lord! Gospel means good news for ALL people.
Zobel said:
The whole idea of age of accountability is invented in whole cloth to deal with some of the knock-on problems brought on by an individualistic view of salvation. It is nowhere in the scriptures or in the tradition of the church.
I don't agree with the general thrust of your point but the bottom line is Christ is merciful and just, and loves all men and all mankind. And that is as true of little children as it is of adults.
I disagree. He always knew what it would lead to, which is him sending his only Son to die for us. This has lead to the current world where we have the free will to follow God or not. We will always fall short but should strive to live our life as Christ did. We would never be able to say that without him coming into this world.americathegreat1492 said:dermdoc said:
Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for ALL people.
Praise the Lord! Gospel means good news for ALL people.
Not my actual take:
The Christian God sounds like he has anger management problems. He got so mad at the first two humans he made for not following directions that he decided to take it out on every single one of their descendants? Brah….take a chill pill.