http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/04/26/noah.ark.ap/index.html

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Expedition to search for Noah's Ark

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An expedition is being planned for this summer to the upper reaches of Turkey's Mount Ararat where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.

A joint U.S.-Turkish team of 10 explorers plans to make the arduous trek up Turkey's tallest mountain, at 17,820 feet, from July 15 to August 15, subject to the approval of the Turkish government, said Daniel P. McGivern, president of Shamrock- The Trinity Corporation of Honolulu, Hawaii.

The goal: to enter what they believe to be a mammoth structure some 45 feet high, 75 feet wide and up to 450 feet long that was exposed in part by last summer's heat wave in Europe.

"We are not excavating it. We are not taking any artifacts. We're going to photograph it and, God willing, you're all going to see it," McGivern said.

Explorers have long searched for an ark on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, where the biblical account of the Great Flood places it.

In 1957, Turkish air force pilots spotted a boat-shaped formation in Agri province. The government did not pursue the sighting, however. The entire area, including Mount Ararat, was off limits to foreigners because of Soviet complaints that explorers were U.S. spies.

That ban was lifted in 1982, and since then teams of explorers have visited the area but have been unable to substantiate any claim of an ark.

McGivern and Ahmet Ali Arslan, a Turkish mountain climber who grew up in a town near Mount Ararat, say satellite photos have helped them pinpoint a more exact location. Arslan will be leading the expedition.

The biblical account in the Book of Genesis says that after the great deluge, the ark came to rest on the mountain with Noah's family and a cargo of male and female pairs of every kind of animal.

Geologists say even though there is evidence of a flood in Mesopotamia in Sumerian times, it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.

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I don't know that we can ever prove the Bible to nonbelievers but stuff like this definately helps reinforce our beliefs.

Nah,,,,they won't believe it.

Judgment Day will occur, and they'll be left here, still thinking they are superior and all of this religious stuff is just inane dependence because of small-brain capacity.

nm

[This message has been edited by 03TXAG (edited 4/26/2004 7:23p).]

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Judgment Day will occur, and they'll be left here, still thinking they are superior and all of this religious stuff is just inane dependence because of small-brain capacity.

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Be one hell of a party though.

Are you serious?

Those are the exact dimensions of the ark! Wow -- I don't care if they find it or not, but that sure would be cool if that is it. That is the exact place the ark came to rest as well.

With all that said I doubt they will find it though. It won't change anything in my mind either way.

texags77@yahoo.com
Please feel free to respond by email.

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That is the exact place the ark came to rest as well.

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By what measure do you say 'exact'? The Bible says it came to rest in the mountains of Ararat. That's a pretty big area to call 'exact'.

It doesn't matter if they find nothing, if they find a stone that is etched "Noah is a myth", or an ark with the skeleton of a dodo being cradled by a sabre-toothed tiger inside. Skeptics won't be convinced and my faith will not be strengthened.

How is it possible for the wood in the arc to have survived thousands of years without rotting and crumbling?

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but stuff like this definately helps reinforce our beliefs

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How so?

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How is it possible for the wood in the arc to have survived thousands of years without rotting and crumbling?

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Maybe it became petrified.

In the right conditions wood can be preserved for a very long time. I have no idea if the top of a snowy mountain would be the right conditions, though.

They're still digging up 1000-2000 year old scrolls of paper in Chinese Turkestan. The Taklamakan desert most certainly contains the right conditions (zero moisture) for preservation, though.

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I have no idea if the top of a snowy mountain would be the right conditions, though.

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I think the idea is that the frigid temps coupled with the high altitude (and dry air) would lead to a good environment for wood preservation.

Nixter -- you are right. I was just thinking mount ararat is what it said. My bad.

texags77@yahoo.com
Please feel free to respond by email.

The biggest obstacle to all this is not whether the Ark could have survived -- it just possibly could have, given the unique conditions up there.

The real problem is the plural of "mountains of Ararat" and even worse, the fact the name got attached to that volcano somewhat later apparently.

You see the dilemma? If someone was just piously guessing that was the right range, just because the only one in sight where thought to land, or whathaveyou, it gets very problematical.

Now, if it was a continous tradition preserved from the deepest Hebrew history, that would be better.

I have followed this story off and on since the 70's with great interest. Some of the accounts are pretty convincing, yet always show a peculiar inability to either keep or verify sightings. Like photos being stolen claims, etc. The biggest obstacle remains that the name may be retroactive. Hard to say. Certainly this new find DOES have the right dimensions as 77 pointed out.

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How is it possible for the wood in the arc to have survived thousands of years without rotting and crumbling?

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The same way Otzi the iceman from the alps was preserved for nearly 5300 years or so estimated.

blauser - can you explain exactly what the arrows are pointing to and what the circle is around? Trying to decipher the picture.

Thanks for posting it as well as the story.

How can anyone possibly believe that one man was able to get two of every animal on Earth onto a ship? Especially when most species can't be found in more than one place? And then the whole world flooded b/c of rain for 40 days?

How about this: The polar ice caps melted causing some areas of the world to flood, by rising tides. Obvioulsy man didn't know what was happening at the time so they believed it to be the work of a God in which they believed at the time. They wrote a fable about this called Gilgamesh. Funny how the tale of Gilgamesh written hundreds of years before the bible has the exact same story of NOAH!

Noah is a fable passed down from other religions and incorporated into the Christian belief. Ever wonder why God is depicted as an old man with a long beard, just look at the Greeks portraits of Zeus. Look beyond you're beliefs and you will find rationale people. Everything about the Christian religion (except the story of Christ of course)is passed down from religious tales.

Believe as you wish, but don't knock other because they open their eyes and see the real truth beyond 2000 year old fables.

How does one know when he's rational and when he's irrational? How does one verify that something is, indeed, true?

What do you believe, rookie flamer?

Wow...

How does a baby come from a virgin?
How does an ax head float to the top of the water?
How does a man rise from the dead to be alive again?
How does the sea spread and you are able to walk across on DRY ground?
How does someone cure lameness instantly?
How does someone cure blindness instantly?

.......Matt 19:26 -- With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.


texags77@yahoo.com
Please feel free to respond by email.

Yikes.
Another Bible hater.
So many of them, so many names, so little credibility.

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Ever wonder why God is depicted as an old man with a long beard, just look at the Greeks portraits of Zeus.

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Actually, God is a spirit and doesn't have a body.

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How can anyone possibly believe that one man was able to get two of every animal on Earth onto a ship? Especially when most species can't be found in more than one place? And then the whole world flooded b/c of rain for 40 days?

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You make several erroneous assumptions:

First, the scriptures say that Noah took two of every kind of animal, and not two of every species. In other words, two canines, not two wolves, two coyotes, two foxes, etc. Two felines, and not two lions, two tigers, two leopards, two cougars, etc.

Secondly, the scriptures don't say that Noah had to go and round them all up himself, they say that God brought the animals to Noah.

Thirdly, the scriptures don't say that all of the water came from rain, they say that the "fountains of the deep" opened up.

[This message has been edited by Bracy (edited 4/29/2004 4:51p).]

Bracy,

3 EXCELLENT points!!! People forget the fountains of the deep.

When has God ever been depicted as an old man with a beard? I have never seen, heard, or thought that!!!

texags77@yahoo.com
Please feel free to respond by email.

[This message has been edited by 77 (edited 4/29/2004 5:45p).]

It’s on the Sistine Chapel and other places, but it's not bibilical. The Bible specifically requires that no image be made of God, because God has no image.

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When has God ever been depicted as an old man with a beard? I have never seen, heard, or thought that!!!

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Have you never read 'The Far Side' cartoons?

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First, the scriptures say that Noah took two of every kind of animal, and not two of every species. In other words, two canines, not two wolves, two coyotes, two foxes, etc. Two felines, and not two lions, two tigers, two leopards, two cougars, etc.

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Did all of these species evolve from their parent "kind?"

Regarding the ark discovery, I'm betting nothing substantial is found. BTW, it sure doesn't sound like the explorers are approaching the find with any kind of objectivity - they seem to already know it's Noah's ark.

Regarding a worldwide flood - the logistics of such an occurrence can't be overcome without resorting to the supernatural.

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Did all of these species evolve from their parent "kind?"

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I believe that all canines can be traced back to a common canine ancestor, and that felines can be traced back to a common feline ancestor, but I don't believe that canines and felines can be a traced back to the same common ancestor.

God created canines and felines, He didn't create an animal that "evolved" into canines and felines.

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God created canines and felines, He didn't create an animal that "evolved" into canines and felines.

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This is not explicitly Biblical.

Nixter:

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This is not explicitly Biblical

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I believe it is. God brought all the various animals (plural) to Adam in order to be named. He didn't bring a common ancestor of all animals to be named.

Both the lion and the wolf are mentioned in the blessings that Jacob bestowed upon his sons. Considering that Shem was still alive when Abraham was born, I don't think that enough time had elapsed for lions and wolves to "evolve" from the same common ancestor.

[This message has been edited by Bracy (edited 4/29/2004 9:20p).]

what difference does it make whether the explorers are approaching it objectively or not? if you go looking for something, thats what you plan on finding. besides if its something else, i'm sure they'll explore it. if i walk to the cupboard looking for lucky charms and i find frosted flakes instead, i'll just eat those



on a side note, i specifically remember seeing a show on discovery or something like it where they 'found' the ark and they showed people inside and stuff. anyone else see such a show? maybe it was an unsolved mysteries-type dramatic enactment.

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Regarding a worldwide flood - the logistics of such an occurrence can't be overcome without resorting to the supernatural.

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You are absolutely right -- who is claiming else wise? With out God this couldn't have happened -- the logistics are such it can't be overcome without him.

texags77@yahoo.com
Please feel free to respond by email.

By the way, those of you who missed seeing Michael Rood's lecture, missed seeing video footage of the real Mount Sinai in Arabia.

You missed video footage (not mere photos) of the altar of the golden calf, the corral that was built for the slaughtering of sacrificial animals, the rock that Moses struck which sprung water, the campsite where the tents were set up, the gravestones of those who worshipped the golden calf, the grinding stones used to grind manna, the Egyptian chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea, the cave in which Elijah hid, and footage of some of over 40,000 stone etchings marking the Israelite's claim to the territory.

[This message has been edited by Bracy (edited 4/29/2004 9:56p).]

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How does a baby come from a virgin?

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By using Clinton's definition of "virgin".

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Regarding a worldwide flood - the logistics of such an occurrence can't be overcome without resorting to the supernatural.

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The logistics of life "evolving" from non-life can't be overcome without resorting to the supernatural.