What do you do to keep faith and keep heart when you had nothing to do with someone else breaking the covenant? How do you see yourself in God's family continuing to work when the church family know about the break? I ask these because sometimes I feel that people in this situation are some of the lonliest people in the world, and even the church members struggle in how to talk to or treat them.

What about Christians who aren't "blameless?" What about those who did something that culminated in the break? I guess sometimes I feel like there's a group within our ranks that doesn't get a full "serving" from others because people are confused about the situations that lead up to and follow such a break.

For those who've endured the tragedy, what changes has it brought to your life, both good and bad? What advice would you give to others caught in the same trap?

I'm just looking to be a better brother to people in need, and maybe some here are willing to help. Thanks.

I still have not really found an accepting church family in the sense that events and activities are geared about family and couples events.

The immediate time was the most alone I have ever felt. Yes, a heart can physically hurt from sadness.

I read the Bible over and over looking for solace.

I still have not found a church community that really ministers to middle and senior aged adults. Most adult single programs are for the 20 somethings that are not yet married.

^
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3rd: Your case is exactly what I'm talking about. I hate that you felt that way or feel that way now. I would wish for you an encouraging group who practices the truth and helps you walk as truely as possible.

You are right that many of the activities are for people clearly on one side of the line or the other. Are we poorly equipped to deal with those in the middle somewhere?

I got served 2 weeks ago, 3 days before my 30th birthday. I have posted posts on this board about a "friend" of mine.

My wife and I read through the Bible cover to cover before we got married. We were virgins when we married, because we wanted to honor God. When I married her, I did so because I trusted her, I believe she loved God, and I believed she would never leave me. Everyone involved in our lives all believed the same things.

On our honeymoon, she froze during sex. I didn't understand. I still don't, I don't guess. We tried to give it time, we tried finding people who could help. We finally determined it was related to an eating disorder my wife struggled with. She stayed healthy, but had "very strict" eating habits. She hated her body and thought she was fat (and still does).

We went to counseling. She went to an eating disorder facility for 6 weeks this summer (for which we borrowed 20,000 from my parents). She just kept pushing me away, though. She decided she didn't love me, and never did, and that was why we had problems with sex, and she could never get better in our marraige.

So she is leaving me.

I don't know what to do, or I would do it. I would rather die than suffer this, but I don't have that choice. I don't know how to help my wife, or what to do.

She has lied to me, and there are many things I could tell to demonstrate that, but I don't think she has cheated on me. I don't know, even after the divorce is over, if I will be "free."

I do know two things:

1) I would never have made it to this point without a strength - a very very quiet strength, but real and not at all figurative - from Jesus.

2) One day I will cry my last tear over this, and God will wipe it away with his own hand and tell me, "Good job - I'm proud of you, I know it was hard."

LAR:

I am moved by your post.

Your summary at the end tells me you have a remarkable vision to be able to see through the pain, even though it can never negate it.

I believe fully that God can-will-does wipe away tears, and give strength. You have to believe that the sting of some of life's greatest--but sadly most common--pains will go.

Do you have an E-mail at which I could reach you? I want to ask you some things, but only if you don't mind. Maybe you can help me learn in a very direct way some of the things I'm trying to figure out for myself. And maybe I could help.

Keep fighting. Keep believing. Keep Leaning on the Everlasting Arms!

I don't at all mind emailing you, but I don't have one that I could give out without sacrificing my privacy (and my wife's). If you have an address you could give me, I will email you, though.

Or, if you have an account at Agtimes I will PM you.

My struggles suddenly seem inconsequential, and I continue to fail regardless.

You are an inspiration lar.

LAR, such is the horrible truth of an addiction such as your wife has. It is possible for either or both of you to recover. I believe the truth lies in the facts that she is very sick spiritually. Look into the 12 steps of recovery and where they really come from.

Letters:

What a tough situation to be in. I can't even begin to imagine what you must be going through. Your reliance on Jesus is a great testimony to me, and I'm sure to others. Just rememeber that the Lord tells us that He works ALL things for the good of those who love him. I hope that will bring you peace, because we know that God looks at the big picture of time. Who knows what amazing things God is equiping you for because you are dealing with this situation. Or, what lives you might be able to touch in the future because of this. I hope and pray that God will give you the peace that surpasses all understanding.

I do know that the bible gives specifically 2 grounds for divorce:

1)Marital Unfaithfulness (adultry)
2)Abandonment

As Christians we are always to seek reconciliation, and if it is possible, I would encourage you to do so with your wife. However, If she shuts the door on reconciliation, then you are no longer bound to the marriage. So do not feel that you are not "free" once she has abandoned all possiblities of reconciliation. I know that is probably the last thing on your mind, however, I don't think God would have a problem with you moving on with your life, and possibly seeking another companion in the future if she decides that is unwilling to stay in the marriage.

LAR:

My prayers are with you. Hope you are able to find peace, whatever that peace may be.

letters at random-I am a social worker with access to several very good psychologists. If you agree I can show them what you have written and see if they may have some suggestions for possible referrals to therapists who specialise in that area. At face value it appears far deeper than an eating disorder. I'm sure any psychologist would want to know if she ever had any traumatizing events in her life prior to marriage. Let me know if you want me to check this out for you.

lar...i was in a newlywed class with someone who went through a very similar experience...wife freaked on the honeymoon night...never really wanted to be alone with him from that point forward and divorced him within 6 months...i share that only to illustrate that you are not alone and to encourage not to look for ways you may have caused this...its not fair but some bad situations are just unforseeable and uncontrollable.

LAR:

Many of us had no idea.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

LAR:
I'm praying for you as well. Even though I may have been a source of exasperation lately, know that I consider you a true and faithful brother in Christ, and I hope for His every blessing on you.

[This message has been edited by Physics96 (edited 4/21/2004 4:42p).]

Hang in there buddy. I don't know you, but I am moved by your story. I pray for you and your wife that you will both end up where God wants you to be.

My wife and I have issues, but they are minor compared to what you are going through. Your testimony helps me to put things in perspective and to work harder to be a good husband and a good father.

Letters....I have no advice. I do have prayers though.

Keep the Faith brother.

david

That's rough. I'll definitely think of you in my prayers, LAR.

Thanks everyone.

I enjoy the distraction of a good debate, Physics, so don't even think about it.

Pray for my wife. (I bet God knows who "LAR's wife" is). I want her to be healed. I know it is something deeper, and I think it is something she doesn't even know about. She is in SO much pain, and she just can't seem to let go of EVERYTHING else and trust God with that pain - but she really is trying.

There are scriptures and thoughts that mean things to me now that I didn't know they could mean before this. I just want to do right. If I have to suffer this, then I want it to mean somthing, and most of all I want God to be proud of me, and I want to be made better.

Anyway - thanks for all the kind words and prayers. God is faithful.



Ishmael - show this to whomever you want to, and everyone can feel free to discuss this as they see fit. I may learn something.

[This message has been edited by letters at random (edited 4/21/2004 8:53p).]

Sometimes it seems unprofessional LAR, but your kids can be a real source of help.

They were wonderful for me when my mom died. It know it's not the same thing, but it was little things like finding a 20 ounce diet coke on my desk in the morning and a card made on recycled paper whose profits went to planting spruce trees for baseball bats.

We all have some kids we are simply closer to than others.



I may not agree with most things you post, but I believe you are genuine and that is a rare thing on here. I hope your karma sends you peace.

[This message has been edited by Tanya 93 (edited 4/21/2004 8:55p).]

Keep trusting in the Lord LAR. Whatever happens will be for the best. This life will offer many hardships. I can say from experience that there will come a time when you look back and understand.

My prayers are with both of you.

Tough situation. You have a virtual community here that will give you real spiritual support. God bless

You know, all of these responses above have the common threads of support, prayer, or good wishes.

It's weird that something on my heart for so long I finally decided to post here. And I am gathering by the fact that you first talked of this as about a "friend" of yours--we've all done this--that some pain inside you were too uncomfortable to share, even in the relative anonymity [edit: spelling oops!]of a Message board.

I'm taking a lot of heart to see all these people show up to throw an invisible arm around the shoulders of a friend (or occasion jousting partner) because the goodness of God comes to those who need it in strange ways.

We could all testify to unlikely sources of help when we seem most lost.

Take heart, brother. None of these people really know you, but we see your sincerity, and your heart in the above post. And how can that not be inspirational to people who know and love God?

Forgive me if this is dumb, but "see" if you can the ring of freinds that have never seen your face standing with you when you are alone with your suffering. I'm going to think about you, and your wife, and pray for some merciful healing grace to decend on you.

I think your protection and support of your wife even in the face of this terrible thing that she's forcing--probably because she IS wrestling with unseen forces that you may not have any ability to see or even help--tells me and all of us here a lot about you.

Take heart. God knows. God cares.

And help is coming to you from some corner of his Kingdom.

I will try and create some dummy e-mail account so I can talk to you. Check back.

Your faith has encouraged me today.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Mephisto (edited 4/26/2004 10:28a).]

My brother's story.

He has been married almost 16 years. He has a 10 year old child with CP, in a wheel chair. He was a member of Promise Keepers. They both attended church faithfully. She started a new carreer about two years ago, dropped 50 pounds and started bar hopping without her wedding ring a year ago. She would tell her husband she was studying with frinds while she was having an affair. She quit going to church with her family and started going to another church with her lover. Last November, she asked my brother to move out and she filed for divorce.

My brother knows he is not with out fault as he is not perfect. I am quite sure many issues lead to the situation, such as financial strain and the stress of having a child with disabilities.

My brother chose to go to christian counselor and find a good lawyer. My brother approached "the other man" and asked him to stop seeing his wife. When that didn't work, leaders in my brohter's church approached the leaders in the other guy's church for an intervention. They are no longer dating.

My brother continues to go to the same church and Sunday school class. His church and friends have rallied around him. While friends and family are quite angry with her, he would still take her back, for the sake of their child, as that would be the godly thing to do. He, of course, may never trust her again, but prays for God's will in their lives. The divorce is supposed to be final in a week, if she doesn't call it off.

letters,

I am grieved to hear that the `friend' example in the thread a while back was in fact you, or an example close to yours.

What I said then would still apply with some modification, that she is way, way, way overlooking the fact that such a "freeze up" -- and maintained and not fought, is far from normal. Its also far more than an eating disorder or esteem problem.

Much prayer is needed; but if it must be, it still seems she must be challenged to not think its just a matter of "moving on to another" and "no longer loving". There is a major hinge loose somewhere--- before she gives up, she should seek to at least identify what it is. She owes you,the marriage, and her vows before God that, IMO.

letters,

I join everyone else in saying I'm sorry that you're going through this. One thought I had that came to mind is perhaps at least a separation would perhaps force her to look at areas that she is ignoring. Her focus on the marriage being the problem is getting in the way of her dealing with her issues and once it's(the marriage) not her main focus perhaps she will come to realize that divorce isn't the answer. It seems to me in order for the marriage to continue and be healthy she has to take a cold hard look at herself and until that happens both you and she will be miserable.
I will be praying for both of you.

letters at random-I have spoken with two of my psychologist friends and they will assist in finding a good referral source. They need to know what area you live in so they can call the local psychological association to find out who has a speacialty in the area needed. I told them that if they could find someone with the right specialty who is also a Christian counselor, this would be best if that was possible.

For privacy E-mail me your area Callmeishmaelhm@aol.com and use "letters at random" as your subject since I delete e-mails I so not recognize.

I will discuss some other things with you in response to that e-mail.

P.S.-if you live anywhere close to the Austin area I can give you a specific name and tel # of an excellent female therapist who specializes in problems you have described.

[This message has been edited by Ishmael-Ag (edited 4/22/2004 2:10p).]

LAR,

I'm very sorry to hear the terrible news. I'll be thinking of you.

Dr. Mephisto,
What a wonderful post to LAR.
That was incredibly moving.

Wyobraska:
Your brother, nephew, and yes, his wife, are included in my prayers, also.

letters at random-hope you got the information I e-mailed you. Have had occasional problems with my e-mail not being received. Hope it helps.

LAR, I have been busy and just saw this.

You and your wife are in my prayers.

I am past my pain now, but certainly remember it. I found real help in Romans--I read it over and over at the time.

God will ease the hurt and take away the tears. Just now do I begin to feel ready to see if he has someone else out there for me--ten years later.

I do know that his plan for us may seem difficult, but as I age, I trust the wisdom of God's plan more and more.

God laid a simple question on someone's heart--and that led to you finding how much we all care and support you.

God Bless.

LAR,

I can't imagine what the pain you are going through. But I can imagine the pain that your wife is going through, depending on what type of woman she is. I am 23 years old and have been divorced for 11 months. I know the pain your wife is feeling because I was the one who went and got the divorce. All i can ask is please continue to give her respect. I know when I got my divorce, it was the hardest desicion I ever had to make. Partially because my exhusband and I have a (now) 2 year old son together. I am a very strong Christian and I pray you and your wife are, from what I can tell you are. And as being a Christian woman, I have had many people condem me for the decision I had to make. I have had many people, even pastors, tell me I had no right to do what I did that I was basically to keep my mouth shut about everything. Pretty much the people that are the firm believers of "Wives submit to your husbands" and who leave out "and husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church". I would have to say though, because of my divorce, I am now closer to God. I was a Christian when I was married, but never felt the true closness with God as I do now. And I blame my exhusband for that. He was never the spiritual head he should have been. The whole situation has drawn me closer to God, and that is my prayer for you and anyone else that is going through a divorce. It is a very good help to have good support underneath you. I don't only mean just support from God, but support from friends, family, and a good church. I have all that and I can honestly say, I have never been happier in my life. Unlike your situation LAR, my divorce was not because I stopped loving my exhusband, it was something much deeper that caused it. My prayers are with you and your wife. May God give you the strength you need. One thing that helped me through my rough time is the Footprints Poem.

Howdy all,
Not a regular here, but happened upon this thread by accident.

After a couple of rough times (divorce and death of a parent) myself, the best advice I can offer is to keep on keeping on. Things will get better. Make the most of each day and try not to dwell on past events. Stay busy with things that interest you and keep your attitude right.

Best wishes,

PB

quote:

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And as being a Christian woman, I have had many people condem me for the decision I had to make.

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Far be it for me to condemn anyone. I will say, though, that faith in God means something. The greatest joy (the only joy - and it is enough) I feel now is the joy that comes from knowing that God is proud of me and the way I have trusted him. I can almost feel his arms around me, telling me that he is proud of me, to hang in there. And I know that, even in sin, I could start over and start making him proud, and it would be just as great. That being said, faith means something. I can't believe that God doesn't know what is best for my life in his kingdom. And if he does, then I either choose to follow it or not - regardless of my feelings. He'll take care of the feelings - in His time. And if God says I'm not supposed to divorce, then I either trust him or I don't. That's just my opinion.

quote:

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I have had many people, even pastors, tell me I had no right to do what I did that I was basically to keep my mouth shut about everything.

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Well, keeping your mouth shut about everything would certainly be the wrong thing to do.

quote:

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I was a Christian when I was married, but never felt the true closness with God as I do now. And I blame my exhusband for that.

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When I am distant from God, the only person to blame is me. Period. Not that God doesn't send us through spells where he seems absent, but if I am not seeking his presence the only person on earth to blame is me.

LAR: I will set that account up. I still want to write you some things. I am technologically retarded, so keep checking back, as it will take me some time.

One thing that could help any of you: do one BIG thing that you have been waiting and waiting for. Let it be something that you always had to put off for one practical reason or another. Try to remember why you had that goal, and then actively seek to bring it to fruition.

I had been waiting to do something since I was 20, but never had the freedoms necessary to follow through with it. It was one of those dreams we have for some time "later," and that later never seemed to get nearer. I talked about it, planned for it, believed with all my heart I would do it "some day."

When all plans for my life were ejected by a wife who simply quit, (now you see LAR why I asked the question; now you see why I want to talk to you. Our situations are eerily similar) I asked myself why I hadn't done one thing to bring this dream of mine closer. There were always practical reasons before, but then I found myself in absence of excuses.

I bought a motorcycle.

A big one.

Okay, this may sound stupid, but I want to tell you that has meant more to me than I realized a machine (albeit exceedingly cool) could.

I found myself praying to God in thanks, because that purchase meant an embrace of some kind of freedom I hadn't felt in years. The sadness doesn't disappear, but you find yourself living, and smiling, at a simple joy of riding free, bugs in your teeth, happy.

Maybe it's because Happiness leaves in such a dramatic fashion after something like this. You live endless days in a murk of work, pain, bills, restless sleep (if any), and wake to a routine as colorless and burdened as the day before it. The pain of the suffering overwhelms, even explodes at times, usually at lonely empty walls in an apartment for one.

And you keep wondering why? what if? why me? when does it end? It hurts when you think God answers your questions with silence.

You see a wreck of your life's plans set before you without your consent (as if it's ever really asked). You feel pushed into the participation of a break up that you desperately don't want, but the only one who can really stop it usually just punctuates your desperation with some official looking envelope and a lot of confusing, cold lawyer talk.

No tenderness. No support. No relief.

Just legal formalities and a cold heart on the other end of the line that uses tons of catch phrases that "justify" why their decision "had" to happen.

That's when you find yourself calling out like the old testament prophets, or David in the Psalms: "How long, O lord, will you ignore the pleas of your children? How long will I suffer in this without Your aid to save me?"

I think that's what friends (or strangers on message boards) are for. I don't want you to feel that pain and ache. I would like to help you. I am sure I need people to help me. LAR did it without even knowing.

So to 3rdGenerationAg, LAR, or anyone else above, new or old to this suffering: Someone cares. Maybe even someone you never met. Maybe even someone who you may not have much else in common with, but who wants to help us all stand and fight and not be swallowed by the pain. Those on the "other side" could sure help those of us still stuck on this side. And frankly, I'll take any help I can get.

Catharsis over!

Hey! If you buy motorcycles, we could be a gang!

Dr. M:

I plan on learning to fly a plane as soon as the divorce is final. A motorcycle would be cool, too.

email me at texagspublic@hotmail.com