Right before the big freeze came through I was down a couple days with fever, chills, cough, body aches, and a runny nose. I say "probably" since I did not get tested to confirm, since it would not have changed the treatment (lying around doing nothing but sleeping) or my behavior (staying away from people).
Question for Episcopalians
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171 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by UTExan
Right, sounds like full authorization should be coming soon, doesn't it? That would do much to ease people's minds, including my own.
Has the data been reviewed?
craigernaught said:
I didn't ignore it. You don't know if you had it or not. Even if you had it, getting the vaccine is still beneficial.
Just baffling.Quote:
but the risk is still greater from it than the virus for me.
The risk of the vaccine to you is essentially zero. You don't know if you had the virus. You don't know what kind of immunity "likely having it" offers. You don't know if you can spread it to others.
This whole argument is lazy and bad.
I should be able to make my own judgment on how to balance the risk though. Even when someone else thinks its dumb or even if the whole world thinks its dumb.
And to SW-14's point, the J&J and AZ has shown more side effects the longer its under testing duration. Even if the risks are less than the rate experienced by the covid+symptomatic groups. If your risk is low and you are young, the probabilities look at waiting more favorably. If your risk is high and you're old, take the vaccine the first change you can get.AstroAg17 said:
Yes. It's reviewed constantly as it's aggregated. That's why Europe and the US noticed the potential association with blood clots from J&J and AZ.
There's a reason since America has vaccinated the most at risk groups that we're seeing a collapse in hospitalizations and deaths. If someone of low risk wants to wait and see if there's any long term effects from the worlds first mRNA vaccine - let em.
Why is the Episcopal church targeted here? Is this just random or is there a reason behind it?
Quote:
https://babylonbee.com/news/progressive-church-unveils-stained-glass-window-of-dr-fauci
NotAGiantBagOfWater said:craigernaught said:
I didn't ignore it. You don't know if you had it or not. Even if you had it, getting the vaccine is still beneficial.
Just baffling.Quote:
but the risk is still greater from it than the virus for me.
The risk of the vaccine to you is essentially zero. You don't know if you had the virus. You don't know what kind of immunity "likely having it" offers. You don't know if you can spread it to others.
This whole argument is lazy and bad.
I should be able to make my own judgment on how to balance the risk though. Even when someone else thinks its dumb or even if the whole world thinks its dumb.
I agree it should be your choice. But we don't have to pretend it's a smart informed choice.
Aggrad08 said:NotAGiantBagOfWater said:craigernaught said:
I didn't ignore it. You don't know if you had it or not. Even if you had it, getting the vaccine is still beneficial.
Just baffling.Quote:
but the risk is still greater from it than the virus for me.
The risk of the vaccine to you is essentially zero. You don't know if you had the virus. You don't know what kind of immunity "likely having it" offers. You don't know if you can spread it to others.
This whole argument is lazy and bad.
I should be able to make my own judgment on how to balance the risk though. Even when someone else thinks its dumb or even if the whole world thinks its dumb.
I agree it should be your choice. But we don't have to pretend it's a smart informed choice.
I'm not sure where the "but" comes in, that's almost exactly what I said.
Aggrad08 said:NotAGiantBagOfWater said:craigernaught said:
I didn't ignore it. You don't know if you had it or not. Even if you had it, getting the vaccine is still beneficial.
Just baffling.Quote:
but the risk is still greater from it than the virus for me.
The risk of the vaccine to you is essentially zero. You don't know if you had the virus. You don't know what kind of immunity "likely having it" offers. You don't know if you can spread it to others.
This whole argument is lazy and bad.
I should be able to make my own judgment on how to balance the risk though. Even when someone else thinks its dumb or even if the whole world thinks its dumb.
I agree it should be your choice. But we don't have to pretend it's a smart informed choice.
What makes you think his choice is not smart and informed?
We're so intelligent, reasonable, and well-informed that anyone who disagrees must a bumbling idiot.
We're also incredibly humble.
We're also incredibly humble.
Matthew 6:27 NIV
[27] Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ?
[27] Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ?
It never ceases to amaze me at how many people can't do a basic risk assessment. Risk a 99.9% survival rate, or get an expedited vaccine. Ill take my chances with the 99.9% covid all day long. Our education system is a joke considering how many 20 year old are getting this vaccine and parents now giving it to children. Zero critical thinking skills.
The irony of this post is impressive.
Zobel said:
The irony of this post is impressive.
Wasn't ironic
Yes it was.
Yes. Like, entire dioceses.
It's been a refreshing, modern-day, "Reformation" of sorts.
A lot of focus on the orthodox faith and a concerted re-examination and calm to understand Gospel, OT, early church, Creeds, and the reformers. At least, that's been my experience.
It's been a refreshing, modern-day, "Reformation" of sorts.
A lot of focus on the orthodox faith and a concerted re-examination and calm to understand Gospel, OT, early church, Creeds, and the reformers. At least, that's been my experience.
cavscout96 said:
Yes. Like, entire dioceses.
It's been a refreshing, modern-day, "Reformation" of sorts.
A lot of focus on the orthodox faith and a concerted re-examination and calm to understand Gospel, OT, early church, Creeds, and the reformers. At least, that's been my experience.
That's good to know. Methodist churches are similarly leaving the UMC denomination to get away from the constant bombardment of social grievances posited as Christianity. The creedal churches such as the Anglican communion returning to liturgical and heartfelt worship have a lot to offer the world. Jesus said that if He was to be lifted up (the job of the church) then He would draw all men to him.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Like the Byzantine rite churches that were received back into full communion with Rome, I recently found out that there are Anglican churches that have done much the same, originating in England. (Our Lady of Walsingham in Houston being one affiliated church) They retain some of their own unique liturgy, I'd like to check it out some time.UTExan said:cavscout96 said:
Yes. Like, entire dioceses.
It's been a refreshing, modern-day, "Reformation" of sorts.
A lot of focus on the orthodox faith and a concerted re-examination and calm to understand Gospel, OT, early church, Creeds, and the reformers. At least, that's been my experience.
That's good to know. Methodist churches are similarly leaving the UMC denomination to get away from the constant bombardment of social grievances posited as Christianity. The creedal churches such as the Anglican communion returning to liturgical and heartfelt worship have a lot to offer the world. Jesus said that if He was to be lifted up (the job of the church) then He would draw all men to him.
We're in a weird spot in the US for sure. We were founded as a country post-reformation with an eventual political hostility to the established state church after the revolution. Nearly everywhere else has a state/cultural church with some ethnic or ethno-political ties back in history. I'm becoming more convinced of the power/influence of in-group/out-group/tribal dynamics in what people choose to believe.
Growing up in the south, Baptists seemed like the default with Methodists being a close second. Lutherans were somewhat old school, and Catholics were a bunch of weirdos. Now that we get cultural influence from around the globe instantly, and for better or worse, someone that isn't anchored to a particular faith by dint of family history or ethnic affiliation has to lean heavily on the intellectual enterprise of theology, especially if they don't find the prevailing secularism or therapeutic deism to be all that compelling.
It feels like being an unqualified debate judge if you didn't have a pre-existing dog in the fight. You see some good points from many sides of the discussion, but you find more often than not, one's convictions are frequently settled by matters of social convenience and confirmation bias.
Good post, thanks.
I think the US also is further prey because of the way capitalism and consumerism interacts with familial and physical ties. By which I mean, how it tends to supplant them with work, jobs, and occupation-based identity. Add on top the hyperindividualism that took the ball from the reformation and ran with it and there you are. To convince most any American of anything you first have to convince them that they're wrong, sometimes. When it comes to religion, that's a pretty tough sell - and postmodernism tendencies creeping through the zeitgeist make it even tougher.
I think the US also is further prey because of the way capitalism and consumerism interacts with familial and physical ties. By which I mean, how it tends to supplant them with work, jobs, and occupation-based identity. Add on top the hyperindividualism that took the ball from the reformation and ran with it and there you are. To convince most any American of anything you first have to convince them that they're wrong, sometimes. When it comes to religion, that's a pretty tough sell - and postmodernism tendencies creeping through the zeitgeist make it even tougher.
Zobel said:
Good post, thanks.
I think the US also is further prey because of the way capitalism and consumerism interacts with familial and physical ties. By which I mean, how it tends to supplant them with work, jobs, and occupation-based identity. Add on top the hyperindividualism that took the ball from the reformation and ran with it and there you are. To convince most any American of anything you first have to convince them that they're wrong, sometimes. When it comes to religion, that's a pretty tough sell - and postmodernism tendencies creeping through the zeitgeist make it even tougher.
Agree that people are searching for identity and many will latch on to their career or "success" as quickly as anything else these days. It can become what I think of as a "Church of Me", which seems like a bad way to go.
In the orthodox and Apostolic liturgy and sacraments, you're forced away from the internal ruminations of the mind of a sinner to the expressions of God in His Church, regardless of any particular bit of debated theology or ecclesiology that might be along for the ride. That's where I am at the moment anyway.
Fantastic dialogue!
What I really appreciate about Anglicanism, as I've known it, is its willingness to engage in healthy debate and discovery from which has sprung some wonderful takes on Theology. At the same time, there is an unabashed respect, maybe deference is another word, for the ancient church in the form of the Creeds and council's. Top it off with a sacramental perspective and you have a very good recipe IMO.
Agree with you both that secular humanism, the church of me, and therapeutic deism are some of the biggest challenges we face.
I am reading through Proverbs right now with a group of mostly Methodist guys and we talked today about the use of the phrase "fear if the Lord." We bemoaned the overwhelming lack of said fear in our culture that makes us way more concerned about what our peers think of us than what the Lord expects/requires of us.
What I really appreciate about Anglicanism, as I've known it, is its willingness to engage in healthy debate and discovery from which has sprung some wonderful takes on Theology. At the same time, there is an unabashed respect, maybe deference is another word, for the ancient church in the form of the Creeds and council's. Top it off with a sacramental perspective and you have a very good recipe IMO.
Agree with you both that secular humanism, the church of me, and therapeutic deism are some of the biggest challenges we face.
I am reading through Proverbs right now with a group of mostly Methodist guys and we talked today about the use of the phrase "fear if the Lord." We bemoaned the overwhelming lack of said fear in our culture that makes us way more concerned about what our peers think of us than what the Lord expects/requires of us.
You can create a very compelling argument for the invasion of 1066 being the Roman Catholic conquering of Orthodox England. The English were in communion with the East after the Great Schism. The daughter of Harold II (defeated by William the Conqueror) was married in Kiev and was the mother of the last ruler of Kievan Rus. There's a ton of "Orthodox" left over in English, particularly in names in nature (marigold = Mary's Gold, ladybird = our lady's bird, St John's wort, etc) or activities (pace eggs come from the word Pascha, crossing fingers is probably related to the sign of the cross).
After the conquest many Anglo-Saxons left for the Byzantine empire. The Normans replaced all of the English bishops and nearly all of the English abbots with Norman ones.
A similar narrative played out in southern Italy around the same time period (~1000 to 1100 AD).
This sense is present in a lot of the artwork from around the time of the English Reformation, and in some sense the re-establishment of Anglicanism is an attempt at re-establishing an Orthodoxy that existed before medieval Roman Catholicism.
After the conquest many Anglo-Saxons left for the Byzantine empire. The Normans replaced all of the English bishops and nearly all of the English abbots with Norman ones.
A similar narrative played out in southern Italy around the same time period (~1000 to 1100 AD).
This sense is present in a lot of the artwork from around the time of the English Reformation, and in some sense the re-establishment of Anglicanism is an attempt at re-establishing an Orthodoxy that existed before medieval Roman Catholicism.
Zobel said:
You can create a very compelling argument for the invasion of 1066 being the Roman Catholic conquering of Orthodox England. The English were in communion with the East after the Great Schism. The daughter of Harold II (defeated by William the Conqueror) was married in Kiev and was the mother of the last ruler of Kievan Rus. There's a ton of "Orthodox" left over in English, particularly in names in nature (marigold = Mary's Gold, ladybird = our lady's bird, St John's wort, etc) or activities (pace eggs come from the word Pascha, crossing fingers is probably related to the sign of the cross).
After the conquest many Anglo-Saxons left for the Byzantine empire. The Normans replaced all of the English bishops and nearly all of the English abbots with Norman ones.
A similar narrative played out in southern Italy around the same time period (~1000 to 1100 AD).
This sense is present in a lot of the artwork from around the time of the English Reformation, and in some sense the re-establishment of Anglicanism is an attempt at re-establishing an Orthodoxy that existed before medieval Roman Catholicism.
Interesting take, worth some rabbit hole reading.
Indeed! Someone needs to invent a 30 hour day...... Ugh.
My reading list is.... Probably never going to be exhausted.
Zobel, any good references avail. For your comments above?
My reading list is.... Probably never going to be exhausted.
Zobel, any good references avail. For your comments above?
Zobel said:
You can create a very compelling argument for the invasion of 1066 being the Roman Catholic conquering of Orthodox England. The English were in communion with the East after the Great Schism. The daughter of Harold II (defeated by William the Conqueror) was married in Kiev and was the mother of the last ruler of Kievan Rus. There's a ton of "Orthodox" left over in English, particularly in names in nature (marigold = Mary's Gold, ladybird = our lady's bird, St John's wort, etc) or activities (pace eggs come from the word Pascha, crossing fingers is probably related to the sign of the cross).
After the conquest many Anglo-Saxons left for the Byzantine empire. The Normans replaced all of the English bishops and nearly all of the English abbots with Norman ones.
A similar narrative played out in southern Italy around the same time period (~1000 to 1100 AD).
This sense is present in a lot of the artwork from around the time of the English Reformation, and in some sense the re-establishment of Anglicanism is an attempt at re-establishing an Orthodoxy that existed before medieval Roman Catholicism.
Zobel, how do you view the rise of evangelicals with Anglicanism? You focus on Anglicanism's resurgence but what is your take on Wesley and Whitefield vis a vis the C of E?
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Well, I did a little further reading and I'm not sure the original argument I read actually stands up to scrutiny. I'd read a paper by Vladimir Moss, but it seems his view may be a bit... unsupported?
https://www.annunciationscranton.org/files/PDF/104_THE_FALL_OF_ORTHODOX_ENGLAND.pdf
This is also an interesting article
https://deremilitari.org/2014/06/english-refugees-in-the-byzantine-armed-forces-the-varangian-guard-and-anglo-saxon-ethnic-consciousness/
I'm starting on Ecclesiastical History of the English People by St. Bede the Venerable as my next book.. not yet though..
https://www.annunciationscranton.org/files/PDF/104_THE_FALL_OF_ORTHODOX_ENGLAND.pdf
This is also an interesting article
https://deremilitari.org/2014/06/english-refugees-in-the-byzantine-armed-forces-the-varangian-guard-and-anglo-saxon-ethnic-consciousness/
I'm starting on Ecclesiastical History of the English People by St. Bede the Venerable as my next book.. not yet though..
I don't know much at all about that. I just remember being struck by several pieces of art I saw when I visited London a few pieces back and read ((( something... can't remember ))) that they were appealing to the idea of a native self-ruled church which sounded very much like the current definition of autocephalous Orthodox churches.
I was also struck by the frequent use of Byzantine-style icons in many churches in England.
I was also struck by the frequent use of Byzantine-style icons in many churches in England.
Zobel said:
I don't know much at all about that. I just remember being struck by several pieces of art I saw when I visited London a few pieces back and read ((( something... can't remember ))) that they were appealing to the idea of a native self-ruled church which sounded very much like the current definition of autocephalous Orthodox churches.
I was also struck by the frequent use of Byzantine-style icons in many churches in England.
Just curious. Wesley wanted to get Anglicanism back to what he perceived was primitive Christianity through holiness but the Methodist movement assumed a character of its own after his death. He was favorably disposed to Orthodoxy because of his theological development.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
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