dargscisyhp said:
I wonder how much the rise in the nons has to do with New Atheism (Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris etc). The swing upwards seems to line up with the release of those books.
Yes. Catechize your children.Quote:
Timing wise, they seemed to coincide with the blip in the "evangelical" scene that did nothing to push a robust theology.
dargscisyhp said:
I wonder how much the rise in the nons has to do with New Atheism (Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris etc). The swing upwards seems to line up with the release of those books.
Frok said:dargscisyhp said:
I wonder how much the rise in the nons has to do with New Atheism (Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris etc). The swing upwards seems to line up with the release of those books.
It's not the atheists that are the fastest growing, it is the nones.
In my mind, an atheist has come to the affirmative conclusion that there is no God. A "none" simply doesn't consider the matter.dargscisyhp said:Frok said:dargscisyhp said:
I wonder how much the rise in the nons has to do with New Atheism (Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris etc). The swing upwards seems to line up with the release of those books.
It's not the atheists that are the fastest growing, it is the nones.
What's the difference?
dargscisyhp said:Frok said:dargscisyhp said:
I wonder how much the rise in the nons has to do with New Atheism (Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris etc). The swing upwards seems to line up with the release of those books.
It's not the atheists that are the fastest growing, it is the nones.
What's the difference?
dermdoc said:
Maybe that will be the good that comes out of Covid as it may make people think about their eternal destination more.
dargscisyhp said:
I would still think the NA movement could have contributed to the rise of "nones" by helping normalize being nonreligious.
It's the internet more than any of those. Lukewarm Christians are as old as Christianity. For my, part the ones in my community mostly walked the walk. But having the vast amount of information at your fingertips and being able to question free of repercussion or taboo is a powerful force. For me and those I know who are atheists (which is probably a majority of my peer group) most of us were out or on our way out before we read any dawkins or Hitchens. Maybe a few youtube debates helped things along for some.one MEEN Ag said:
From the atheists I've interacted with Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris was a pull factor, but their watching parents live a hypocritical life was a major push factor.
I do think widespread lukewarm Christianity from the previous generation was laid bare to gen X and millennials. Subsequently, they are not afraid to walk away from a faith they saw lazily applied by their parents.
WLC has a style that does well against those, but falls very flat against others. He got beat soundly by shelly kagen and never stood a chance against sean carroll. When he played against experts in the appropriate field his schtick doesn't stick.chimpanzee said:
the debates where William Lane Craig engaged with these guys is instructive of who actually has a good intellectual grasp of what can be properly understood, but there's a whole lot more Joel Osteen in modern "evangelicalism" than there is Craig.
Aggrad08 said:WLC has a style that does well against those, but falls very flat against others. He got beat soundly by shelly kagen and never stood a chance against sean carroll. When he played against experts in the appropriate field his schtick doesn't stick.chimpanzee said:
the debates where William Lane Craig engaged with these guys is instructive of who actually has a good intellectual grasp of what can be properly understood, but there's a whole lot more Joel Osteen in modern "evangelicalism" than there is Craig.
They are experts in the right fields. Hitchens might be smarter than either of them but he isn't going to be speaking the same language as craig whos talking Kalam.chimpanzee said:
It seems Kagan and Carroll are the true Scotsmen then.
He's a Kalam guy. I never thought it was a very good argument for a specific god, it's an attempt at deism. But Carroll pantsed him when he tried make physics arguments with a cosmologist.Quote:
Nevertheless, Hitchens et. al., very likely pulled more people from the pews owing to the popularity of their work and yet a rhetoric guy like Craig did a pretty tidy job of presenting sound counterpoints that many had never heard.
Quote:
Having looked into the Kagan and Carroll stuff just now, you're getting way more esoteric than most folks will ever consider, and perhaps Craig is out of his element.
I have considered it. I also consider it a relatively unimportant question when examining revealed religion.Quote:
But it's a fair point to ask, if you haven't considered whether the universe can exist without causation, are you any better than the people that never considered their faith, or lack thereof, in much depth at all?
PacifistAg said:
I am not sure what the source data is. I would imagine the declines in the top group are driven by different factors, but both (Evangelical & Mainline Protestant) decline are fueling the increase in no religion.
swimmerbabe11 said:
pacifist, you should follow lymanstoneky on Twitter. loots of this type of data. thats his gig.
also, Has American Christianity Failed by Bryan Wolfmueller..great book. would be happy to lend you my copy.