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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 10:13a, 10/12/19
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:32a, 10/12/19
PacifistAg
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In reply to [removed post] • 10:55a, 10/12/19
AG
I think the use of passive aggressive quotations is silly. I've done it before, and it was silly then. But seamaster has a long track record of dishonest and combative engagement here on this subject.

Not using quotations isn't an endorsement of anything, and using them as he does only serves to antagonize, not further the dialogue. So, I make jokes because this thread, if like all other LGBT-obsessive seamaster threads, will not result in any meaningful discussion. So I'm just trying to lighten things up. I will, instead, exit the thread since my post may offend.
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In reply to PacifistAg • 11:13a, 10/12/19
Seamaster
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11:46a, 10/12/19
AG
"Has the religious right ever crossed the line?"

You tell us. Prohibition maybe?

Blue laws which kind of annoy me (if I need wine for Sunday lunch and forgot to get some Saturday.)

You could reach back into history and there was some kind of crazy stuff going on in the name of Christianity in the Middle Ages obviously.

As to my not giving any ground on the definition of the word "marriage." I stand by that 100%. I was asked at work recently what I thought about gay marriage by a superior. He wasn't fishing, I think he just was curious because i am from the south and a professed Christian.

I said exactly what I've said here: marriage is one man and one women. Period. Regardless of what a government says.

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Seamaster
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11:50a, 10/12/19
AG
Pacifist

"But seamaster has a long track record of dishonest and combative engagement here on this subject. "

Link up a single example of me being dishonest in this forum.

Show me a single example and I'll never post here again.
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Beer Baron
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8:00a, 10/13/19
AG
I can't remember the topic but relatively recently you posted an article without actually reading it and claimed it said something other than what it said. Then Refused to back down when it was pointed out. I believe the thread was deleted as many of yours end up being.

Edit: it was the one where you claimed all the ER staff Pretended a trans man wasn't actually trans during a pregnancy.
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Seamaster
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3:18p, 10/13/19
AG
Oh. So the time when the woman went to a hospital with "stomach pains" and ended up having a late term miscarriage because, among other things, she'd had no prenatal care and health care providers did not initially treat for possible pregnancy.

Yeah. I guess it's "dishonest" to point how insane that it is.

Here is that article again.

Among other gems "he was rightly classified as a man" (this is a pregnant woman)

And, "A woman showing up with similar symptoms "would almost surely have been triaged and evaluated more urgently for pregnancy-related problems," the authors wrote."

Everything I said when I originally brought this article to attention remains true.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/05/16/pregnant-transgender-man-births-stillborn-baby-hospital-missed-labor-signs/3692201002/

Secondly, talk about dishonest. I don't recall many of my threads being deleted, certainly not enough to suggest that's it's a regular occurrence.
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RAB91
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In reply to Seamaster • 6:22p, 10/13/19
Seamaster said:
Remember that time we were told that churches have nothing to worry about with gay "marriage?" That it was just love and churches would' be coerced into accepting gay "marriage?"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/beto-orourke-basically-wants-to-bankrupt-churches-who-dont-believe-in-gay-marriage

Yeah. So much for that. Fall in line or pay up. That's first. Then they'll just simply force it under pain of persecution.
Seamaster is 100% right on this one. Many of you know it, but you allow your dislike for him to cloud your vision.
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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 8:29p, 10/13/19
AG
To be fair, they typically get deleted when the white supremacists show up, not because of your initial post.

But multiple people explained multiple times in that thread how you were wrong, based on quotes from your own article. I refuse to believe you're unable to understand why, so I'm only left with you're intentionally being dishonest as an explanation.
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Seamaster
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8:07a, 10/14/19
AG
See above. My original points stand and are supported by the article.

Having a different viewpoint and perspective than you isn't "dishonest."

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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 8:09a, 10/14/19
AG

Quote:
My original points stand and are supported by the article.
They're not. Example #2 of your dishonesty.
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Seamaster
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9:18a, 10/14/19
AG
This is like arguing with my tweenagers.

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craigernaught
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In reply to Seamaster • 1:29p, 10/14/19
AG
Seamaster said:
This is like arguing with my tweenagers.


You lose those too?
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In reply to Beer Baron • 7:49p, 10/14/19
Seamaster
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6:12a, 10/15/19
AG
Great question, Average Guy.

Five or six guys immediately like whatever Beer Baron says to me so it must be something obviously manifest and immediately recognizable.

The bottom line is that the charge or "dishonesty" over my summary of an article, which I shared in its entirety, is quite a reach. Worst case scenario - they complain that I wasn't precise enough for them. That's "dishonest" to them and therefore they can dismiss everything else I ever say.

Classic Ad Hominem.

And it's what this lot resorts to when they can't address the substance of an argument.

I'll be back several months now when gays start suing churches (something which this board promissed would NEVER happen) and they'll say, "Oh, Seamaster is dishonest. He once summarized an article imprecisely. So even though he's spot on and called this a year ago, we can all go bury our heads in the sand and just accept the oncoming woke-scold progressive dystopia."

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craigernaught
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7:35a, 10/15/19
AG
Quote:
I'll be back several months now when gays start suing churches (something which this board promissed would NEVER happen)
Was this promised? I honestly don't remember. I tried searching for it, but couldn't find anything - as a free subscriber I can only go back a year. Can you post a link where someone makes this promise?

I assume that people will sue churches over refusals to have same-sex weddings, but I can't imagine that such lawsuits will be successful.
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Beer Baron
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In reply to craigernaught • 8:29a, 10/15/19
AG
craigernaught said:
Quote:
I'll be back several months now when gays start suing churches (something which this board promissed would NEVER happen)
Was this promised? I honestly don't remember. I tried searching for it, but couldn't find anything - as a free subscriber I can only go back a year. Can you post a link where someone makes this promise?
Not that I'm aware of. People generally say what you said - it may happen occasionally, but it hasn't yet, and like the vast majority of frivolous suits these will be tossed out by courts quickly.


Quote:
I assume that people will sue churches over refusals to have same-sex weddings, but I can't imagine that such lawsuits will be successful.

Not only not successful (easy call there), but there's no evidence that they'd be common either. Full marriage equality has been a thing nationwide for over 4 years, they've been recognized federally for over 6, and it's been legal in parts of the country for nearly two decades, and I've yet to see an example of this. But if one lawsuit gets filed and quickly tossed in 2037, we can all count on an "I told you so."
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Beer Baron
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In reply to [removed post] • 8:40a, 10/15/19
AG
When he first posted the article he made a big show of how everyone in the ER "pretended the patient was a man" in a grand example of PC culture run amok. According to him, everyone just completely ignored the patient's uterus to spare their feelings. What the article actually showed was negligence on the part of the staff - the patient was up front about their trans status and even informed staff that they had gotten a positive result on a home pregnancy test, but the medical staff never really followed up on that as a cause of the symptoms.
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Seamaster
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8:42a, 10/15/19
AG
"Was this promised? I honestly don't remember."

Oh, it was. It's one of the predictions I (and others) were making and Beer Baron (and others) assured us that we were making a slippery slope argument and that this would never happen and freedom of religion would be respected.

How's that looking now?
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Seamaster
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In reply to Beer Baron • 8:43a, 10/15/19
AG
From the Article:

"A woman showing up with similar symptoms "would almost surely have been triaged and evaluated more urgently for pregnancy-related problems.."

Point stands.

And let's not lose sight of the fact that this is the grand proof of my dishonesty....


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diehard03
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8:48a, 10/15/19
Quote:
How's that looking now?

The same as it's always been. One candidate making a rogue statement during a primary where the goal is to appeal to the crazies does not mean the sky is falling.
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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 8:48a, 10/15/19
AG
I really don't see how that makes your point. Staff didn't ignore the pregnancy claims because they were trying to be PC like you claimed, they just didn't think the patient looked female enough to be pregnant. This type of thing is a problem trans people face when seeking healthcare, not something they insist people do to make them feel better about themselves. A trans woman going to the doctor for a lump in their scrotum doesn't want doctors to say "nope, no scrotum here you beautiful lady!" They want the lump treated.
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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 8:53a, 10/15/19
AG

Quote:
"Was this promised? I honestly don't remember."

Oh, it was. It's one of the predictions I (and others) were making and Beer Baron (and others) assured us that we were making a slippery slope argument and that this would never happen and freedom of religion would be respected.

If I've ever said anything that would make you think I think it could "never" happen, I do apologize. I don't think it could never happen, just like I couldn't say that someone somewhere would never sue the mayor because he keeps making harassing statements to them through their microwave. Anybody with a couple hundred bucks can file a lawsuit.

I believe I've said many times that this is very unlikely, it hasn't happened yet despite decades of opportunity for it to have been done, and that if it were to happen the lawsuit would be quickly dismissed. Our legal system allows anyone to file a lawsuit for any reason, no matter how frivolous or non-law based. It's the courts' job to weed those out and I firmly believe these would be, easily.



Quote:
How's that looking now?
No different than it was 20 years ago or any of the dozens of times I've told you the lawsuit tsunami is not a legitimate concern.
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craigernaught
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In reply to Seamaster • 9:05a, 10/15/19
AG
Can you post a link of such a promise?
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Seamaster
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10:48a, 10/15/19
AG
Craignuaght.

What now? You're fact-checking me? Trying to play "gotch?"

Firstly, Beer Baron admits above that we've talked about this before.

Secondly, the search function on my phone is laborious and annoying.

Thirdly, however, I found two examples. There are more, if memory serves.

https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2547016/replies


https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2473353/replies/39263319#39263319
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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 11:19a, 10/15/19
AG
Yes, we've talked about this over and over again. Usually you say a wave of lawsuits is imminent, and we say that while some lawsuits may happen sometime (none have yet) they are unlikely to be common or successful. Where in either of those threads do we claim otherwise?

Also, did you even read that second one at all? That was a satirical thread started by me to point out the silence your side exhibited when faced with an actual government overreach into church practices. Just remarkable that out of all threads to prove whatever point you're trying to make, that one was the one you cited.
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diehard03
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11:34a, 10/15/19
Quote:
What now? You're fact-checking me? Trying to play "gotch?"

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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 11:35a, 10/15/19
AG
And as usual, by page 7 of that first thread you cited, new information comes out demonstrating that the thing claimed in the OP didn't actually happen the way it was represented.

https://texags.com/forums/15/topics/2547016/7
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The Golfin Ag
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2:34p, 10/15/19
you guys are hilarious, stop caring, we're on a one way ticket to clown world and there aren't any brakes on this train. Gay marriage has been legal for like 5 years and we've got transexual sing alongs in public libraries and the bizzare and macabre kubrick trailer that was the Democratic Equality townhall or whatever, it's only going to get sadder/funnier.

Picture this, the year is 2019, a portly mestizo woman is addressing her question to a white democratic presidential hopeful named Beto from Texas while flanked by her 9 year old trans child and subject of her question. From out of the audience comes a black transgender agent provocateur who grabs the trans' mother's microphone and charges the progressive network hosting the event with marginalizing and silencing trans people of color. The gay black moderator intervenes and tries to calm the situation, while the other gay white moderator looks on in surprise.

This is going to be a wild ride.
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Seamaster
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4:56p, 10/15/19
AG
GolfinAg.

It doesn't have to be a wild ride.

We cede too much.

We cede language.

We cede school curriculums.

We allow libraries in our communities to be degenerated and children targeted.

That so called "Eqaulity Townhall" was pure madness. And it featured child abuse. And we so back and say "It's going to be a wild ride?"

No thanks.

We need brave men and women to forcefully say "no" and move the culture. Small wins - such as fighting the school district that's pushing a new agenda. Or donating to Alliance Defending Freedom.
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to Seamaster • 6:04p, 10/15/19
AG
Seamaster said:
"Has the religious right ever crossed the line?"

You tell us. Prohibition maybe?

Blue laws which kind of annoy me (if I need wine for Sunday lunch and forgot to get some Saturday.)

You could reach back into history and there was some kind of crazy stuff going on in the name of Christianity in the Middle Ages obviously.

As to my not giving any ground on the definition of the word "marriage." I stand by that 100%. I was asked at work recently what I thought about gay marriage by a superior. He wasn't fishing, I think he just was curious because i am from the south and a professed Christian.

I said exactly what I've said here: marriage is one man and one women. Period. Regardless of what a government says.



Let's go with an easy one. Same sex marriage has been illegal in the US for the majority of its existence almost solely in religious grounds with Christian organizations explicitly opposing equal rights for homosexuals. I'm not talking about "marriage" as the church sees it. I'm talking about basic equal rights. How do you justify that?

I saw a political cartoon years ago with two windows - I'm sure many will recall it or something similar. The first window has a Christian smashing an atheist over the head with a Crucifix and verbally assaulting him. The second window has the atheist grabbing the cross and about to break it over his knee with the Christian yelling he's being oppressed. I'm pretty sure you would see that comic and say "Poor Christian. That atheist stole from him and is about to destroy his property."

I'll spell out the obvious analogy so it's not misunderstood. Christians have treated gays poorly throughout most of history. Not just poorly, despicably. Now we have a couple lawsuits about Christian bakers and a political candidate threatening tax exemption removal and you act like the Gay-Apocalypse is here. You think Christians are oppressed here? *****, you don't know what real oppression is
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swimmerbabe11
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 6:14p, 10/15/19
So yeah, American Christianity is soft. We don't have it hard like the Coptic Christians in Egypt or the Syrian Christians or Christians in Iran or in parts of Africa where they are being martyred and tortured and whatnot..

I'll acknowledge that. Homosexuals have had it pretty hard throughout history at the hands of many, including Christians. I'll acknowledge that too.

So what is next? Should American Christians then accept any treatment as "well, I guess it is our turn?"
Should American Christians not point out that these things are wrong?

And let's be clear.. both of the cases you mentioned were bad law. I wasn't as annoyed by them because they are attacks on my faith so much as "holy **** this is bad law and sets a really bad precedent in the United States for future legal cases and this is highly unconstitutional stuff."

How often do things like this need to happen before you call it an escalating pattern? I'm just curious. You clearly seem to have an opinion. When are Christians allowed to actually be perturbed at being targeted?
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swimmerbabe11
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6:16p, 10/15/19
Quote:
I'm talking about basic equal rights.

Also, what is and isn't a basic equal right has been hotly debated.
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swimmerbabe11
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6:17p, 10/15/19
Also, I love that you can quote a reply and read what the censored curse word is while responding.
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