In God We Trust Law

6,894 Views | 167 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Sapper Redux
barbacoa taco
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Macarthur said:

I think Kurt covered some of these points.

And you 'knowing' they were not offended is baloney. People outside of that norm have had to deal with it forever. I know because on a much lesser scale, I get it being an atheist in Texas. YOu have no idea what it's like to be Godless in suburban Texas and raising kids in that environment.

As I said, it's on a lesser scale so I don't want to make it seem like we're in some hugely oppressive regime, but it does get tiresome to be constantly bombarded with it.

And your cavalier attitude towards those in the past that had to just sit and deal with, is troubling.
Derm's attitude is pretty representative of right-wing Christians in America. That being "We're a Christian nation, now deal with it."

Being nonreligious in a major city in Texas is pretty easy. No one gives a __ if you're religious or not. Just you do you and I'll do me. I imagine it's probably pretty tiresome in the country or in the suburbs. Maybe people aren't obnoxious about it, but even driving 15 minutes out of the city center in Dallas or Austin you can see a major difference. Religion really is everywhere in the burbs.

I get that for many people, church provides a huge sense of community and purpose. I have no issue with that. Of course, I have a huge issue with them forcing that on people who aren't part of that.
Duncan Idaho
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What's the saying?

"When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
dermdoc
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Duncan Idaho said:

What's the saying?

"When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression"


Appreciate the disguised ad hom but you have pretty much used that one up.

Why would these guys be my friends if they felt oppressed or a victim?

I am not paying them to hang around me. One of my best friends is a hard core atheist and we sometimes go round and round but he could care less if I pray or whatever.

My goodness what a depressing way to live.

And so have never felt oppressed a day in my life so I guess I have no equals.

And I was a little red headed guy whose dad worked at the refinery that everybody picked on.

Made me who I am today.
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Macarthur
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Duncan Idaho said:

What's the saying?

"When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

Bingo.
dermdoc
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And what's the saying
"If you are always looking for oppression, you will always be a victim".
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Duncan Idaho
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I will add "ad hominem" to the long list of things you don't really understand but pretend to.
dermdoc
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Duncan Idaho said:

I will add "ad hominem" to the long list of things you don't really understand but pretend to.

Know how I now you are superior and smarter than me?

Because you tell me so. Smugness and arrogance combined.

Guess I fooled those med school folks for decades.

Weird.
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barbacoa taco
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ramblin_ag02 said:

Cool if so. You have some sort of reference for that?

94% of Arabic speakers of Muslim and would say that Allah only applies to their God. So as far as establishing religion, the Arabic version is unquestionably worse than the English version of "In God We Trust"
Here's a hilariously appropriate rule that applies to this situation.

The Air Bud Rule
barbacoa taco
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dermdoc said:

Duncan Idaho said:

I will add "ad hominem" to the long list of things you don't really understand but pretend to.

Know how I now you are superior and smarter than me?

Because you tell me so. Smugness and arrogance combined.

Guess I fooled those med school folks for decades.

Weird.
but it really was not an ad hom. It was a criticism of the Christian persecution complex. Ad hom is when you directly attack someone's character in an attempt to discount their argument.
88Warrior
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Apparently victim hood is it's own religion…
ramblin_ag02
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Again, I have no issue with anyone using a different language for the signs with the single exception of Arabic. It is the one language on Earth, to my knowledge, where the name used for god isn't generalizable to the overwhelming majority of people who speak the language. It's very easy to argue that the Arabic phrase on a school specifically endorses Islam. That's not true for any other language.
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dermdoc
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larry culpepper said:

dermdoc said:

Duncan Idaho said:

I will add "ad hominem" to the long list of things you don't really understand but pretend to.

Know how I now you are superior and smarter than me?

Because you tell me so. Smugness and arrogance combined.

Guess I fooled those med school folks for decades.

Weird.
but it really was not an ad hom. It was a criticism of the Christian persecution complex. Ad hom is when you directly attack someone's character in an attempt to discount their argument.


Disagree. He specifically has used that same phrase on me numerous times.

And I am not a Christian persecution person or a victim in any way.

He does not like me or the way I think and that is fine.

But let's at least be honest here.
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dermdoc
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88Warrior said:

Apparently victim hood is it's own religion…


Can not blue star this enough.

And the sad thing is it is a terrible, sad way to live.
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craigernaught
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Do you have a citation (or did you already) for this 94% number? I mean, I live in an Islamic country and no one I know would say that, although it is a pretty western-friendly, international area. Allah refers to the God of Islam which for them, is clearly the God of Judaism and Christianity.

The first time I met my next door neighbor he asked me if I believed in God. I said yes, I am Christian and he said "Good. Good. No one believes in God anymore."
ramblin_ag02
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Quote:

In modern usage, the term "Arab" tends to refer to those who both carry that ethnic identity and speak Arabic as their native language. In a source that compares Arabs in Europe to other socio-ethnic groups, Arabs are also referred to as a socio-ethnic group.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#cite_note-76][75][/url] This contrasts with the narrower traditional definition, which refers to the descendants of the tribes of Arabia.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#cite_note-77][76][/url] The religion of Islam was developed in Arabia, and Classical Arabic serves as the language of Islamic literature. While 93 percent of Arabs are Muslims,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#cite_note-78][77][/url] they comprise only 20 percent of the global Muslim population.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#cite_note-79][78][/url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

The Wikipedia says 93%. But that's the number of Arabic speakers that are Islamic. From there I looked into Muslim attitutes of other religions using Allah to refer to God. In the Pacific Islands it has been a hot button issue for over a decade where the Muslims there are adamantly opposed to anyone else using the term. I don't have direct info on central Asia or Northern Africa, but it's hard to believe the spiritual centers for Sunni and Shia Islam are going to be more lax about it than the adherents in the Pacific Islands
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dermdoc
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craigernaught said:

Do you have a citation (or did you already) for this 94% number? I mean, I live in an Islamic country and no one I know would say that, although it is a pretty western-friendly, international area. Allah refers to the God of Islam which for them, is clearly the God of Judaism and Christianity.

The first time I met my next door neighbor he asked me if I believed in God. I said yes, I am Christian and he said "Good. Good. No one believes in God anymore."


I have had the same experiences with my Muslim friends. Obviously not as many experiences as you.
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craigernaught
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I think I may be confused by a typo in your original comment. I read it as "94% of Arab Muslims believe Allah applies only to the God of Islam" but it seems I misread it and you're saying that "94/93% of Arabs are Muslim".

I can't speak to Islam in the Pacific or the Shia world really at all, but my experience hasn't been what you described. However, when my kids go to school here and if they speak of Allah in terms similar to "In God we trust", I won't have any misconceptions about what they mean. It would almost certainly assume an Islamic interpretation and a "yeah sure you too" to Christians. I would object strongly to any such usage, although I may not have much if any say.
craigernaught
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You might have more lol. I'm pretty anti-social. Covid plus baby didn't help that.
Sb1540
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ramblin_ag02 said:

Again, I have no issue with anyone using a different language for the signs with the single exception of Arabic. It is the one language on Earth, to my knowledge, where the name used for god isn't generalizable to the overwhelming majority of people who speak the language. It's very easy to argue that the Arabic phrase on a school specifically endorses Islam. That's not true for any other language.
Honestly anything at this point that's not pro LBGTQ is a win. Plus there are Antiochian Christians in Texas that would be pleasantly surprised at this and probably laugh at the idiot liberal who thought they were smart for it. Most of them are either in DFW or Houston lol.
Aggrad08
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ramblin_ag02 said:

Again, I have no issue with anyone using a different language for the signs with the single exception of Arabic. It is the one language on Earth, to my knowledge, where the name used for god isn't generalizable to the overwhelming majority of people who speak the language. It's very easy to argue that the Arabic phrase on a school specifically endorses Islam. That's not true for any other language.


What word do Arab Christians use for god? If they actually used a different word you'd have a point. It would be like saying in Thor we trust. It's not though. The link you put forth is actually an attempt to marginalize Christianity not out of genuine belief that the word isn't generic but in effect to get them to use another name so they basically would be saying in Thor we trust while only Muslims get to say in god we trust.

Do not use their error to make your own. If instead it used a short Muslim prayer you'd hVe a point.
Beer Baron
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Could we all agree to a law requiring a portrait of Dolly Parton in every classroom? I firmly believe she is the single point of overlap in many weird Venn Diagrams and might be the key to fixing this country.
Sapper Redux
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Aggrad08 said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

Again, I have no issue with anyone using a different language for the signs with the single exception of Arabic. It is the one language on Earth, to my knowledge, where the name used for god isn't generalizable to the overwhelming majority of people who speak the language. It's very easy to argue that the Arabic phrase on a school specifically endorses Islam. That's not true for any other language.


What word do Arab Christians use for god? If they actually used a different word you'd have a point. It would be like saying in Thor we trust. It's not though. The link you put forth is actually an attempt to marginalize Christianity not out of genuine belief that the word isn't generic but in effect to get them to use another name so they basically would be saying in Thor we trust while only Muslims get to say in god we trust.

Do not use their error to make your own. If instead it used a short Muslim prayer you'd hVe a point.
They use "Allah." It's a generic term for God. Non-Arab Muslims also tend to use that word, though that's more cultural than any requirement.
Duncan Idaho
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Beer Baron said:

Could we all agree to a law requiring a portrait of Dolly Parton in every classroom? I firmly believe she is the single point of overlap in many weird Venn Diagrams and might be the key to fixing this country.

She help fund covid vaccine research. So she is out
Duncan Idaho
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dermdoc said:

88Warrior said:

Apparently victim hood is it's own religion…


Can not blue star this enough.

And the sad thing is it is a terrible, sad way to live.


Said without a hint of irony
dermdoc
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Duncan Idaho said:

dermdoc said:

88Warrior said:

Apparently victim hood is it's own religion…


Can not blue star this enough.

And the sad thing is it is a terrible, sad way to live.


Said without a hint of irony
And you without a hint of disingenuous intent.

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barbacoa taco
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Beer Baron said:

Could we all agree to a law requiring a portrait of Dolly Parton in every classroom? I firmly believe she is the single point of overlap in many weird Venn Diagrams and might be the key to fixing this country.
Yes, and we should do it North Korea style where her portrait is required to be front and center in every room. Harsh penalties for noncompliance.
Rocag
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... One nation, under Dolly...
Sapper Redux
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larry culpepper said:

Beer Baron said:

Could we all agree to a law requiring a portrait of Dolly Parton in every classroom? I firmly believe she is the single point of overlap in many weird Venn Diagrams and might be the key to fixing this country.
Yes, and we should do it North Korea style where her portrait is required to be front and center in every room. Harsh penalties for noncompliance.
While the Constitution takes a firm line against any religious test for office, it says nothing about ensuring the appropriate attitude towards our greatest national treasure.
 
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