Societies like the freemasons always fascinate me. I've always wanted the Isma'ilis to get the Ikhwan al-Safa back together

More interesting is it's influence on Mormonism.

http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism

Duncan Idaho said:

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More interesting is it's influence on Mormonism.

http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism

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What's even more interesting than that...

Just kidding. I think it is also very strange how much Jewish Mysticism impacts and is baked into Free Masonry.

Orko said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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More interesting is it's influence on Mormonism.

http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism

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What's even more interesting than that...

Just kidding. I think it is also very strange how much Jewish Mysticism impacts and is baked into Free Masonry.

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Jewish mysticism? Want to expand on that? Freemasonry came from early modern Scotland. Not many Jews in early modern Scotland.

Duncan Idaho said:

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More interesting is it's influence on Mormonism.

http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism

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Oh yes indeed. The ritual parallels are very interesting-and the cultic acquisition of hidden knowledge.

Dr. Watson said:

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Orko said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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More interesting is it's influence on Mormonism.

http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism

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What's even more interesting than that...

Just kidding. I think it is also very strange how much Jewish Mysticism impacts and is baked into Free Masonry.

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Jewish mysticism? Want to expand on that? Freemasonry came from early modern Scotland. Not many Jews in early modern Scotland.

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One person's point of view:
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/apendent_bodies/scottiest/the_true_history_scottish_esoteric_masonry.htm

Neon R said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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Orko said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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More interesting is it's influence on Mormonism.

http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism

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What's even more interesting than that...

Just kidding. I think it is also very strange how much Jewish Mysticism impacts and is baked into Free Masonry.

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Jewish mysticism? Want to expand on that? Freemasonry came from early modern Scotland. Not many Jews in early modern Scotland.

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Kabbalism

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I know what Jewish mysticism is. I'm skeptical of any influence it had on early modern and Enlightenment Scotland. The link provided was interesting, but I'm not very convinced. The sources are... unusual.

If you ever have 4 hours to kill and don't mind crappy production value, these videos are the most well laid out presentations on how Masonry and older ideas have been embedded in the design of so many major cities all over the world and especially in the US I've ever seen. Many ideas I had never heard of before.




Also, this is not some religious take on it. These videos are about the actual facts and math behind the ideas and architecture.

Beer Baron said:

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Sometimes this place reads like someone went back in time and gave medieval villagers access to the internet.

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You might want to reread Clifford Geertz' work Re: Local Knowledge.

UTExan said:

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Beer Baron said:

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Sometimes this place reads like someone went back in time and gave medieval villagers access to the internet.

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You might want to reread Clifford Geertz' work Re: Local Knowledge.

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Never took you for a fan of poststructuralist anthropology.

Dr. Watson said:

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UTExan said:

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Beer Baron said:

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Sometimes this place reads like someone went back in time and gave medieval villagers access to the internet.

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You might want to reread Clifford Geertz' work Re: Local Knowledge.

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Never took you for a fan of poststructuralist anthropology.

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Never hurts to broaden one's horizons. OTOH, I could reference rational choice theory.

Beer Baron said:

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Sometimes this place reads like someone went back in time and gave medieval villagers access to the internet.

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Nah, it isn't even remotely comparable. They wouldn't put up with nearly as much as we do today. I'm about as anti-modern as it gets and I'd only roll it back to around 1560 or so.

Isn't Freemasonry essentially in freefall with members?

I've looked into it in the past and am interested but fail to meet their requirements. Wonder if they will become more "lax" when membership hits critical levels?

Eliminatus said:

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Isn't Freemasonry essentially in freefall with members?

I've looked into it in the past and am interested but fail to meet their requirements. Wonder if they will become more "lax" when membership hits critical levels?

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You are female, or you are atheist?

Texaggie7nine said:

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Eliminatus said:

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Isn't Freemasonry essentially in freefall with members?

I've looked into it in the past and am interested but fail to meet their requirements. Wonder if they will become more "lax" when membership hits critical levels?

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You are female, or you are atheist?

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Atheist. Had a couple of friends that were members and how I first heard about it. Always been fascinated by it and after cursory examination into it ran into that pesky snag.

Eliminatus said:

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Texaggie7nine said:

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Eliminatus said:

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Isn't Freemasonry essentially in freefall with members?

I've looked into it in the past and am interested but fail to meet their requirements. Wonder if they will become more "lax" when membership hits critical levels?

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You are female, or you are atheist?

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Atheist. Had a couple of friends that were members and how I first heard about it. Always been fascinated by it and after cursory examination into it ran into that pesky snag.

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The good news is that in 2018, you could fix either of those snags. Obviously one may be a little easier and less invasive than the other....if you REALLY want in.

As for freefall, i wouldn't say that. Membership isn't what it once was but we have new apprentices quite often. I think it's a societal thing. It's a lot of work and there are meetings and they go out and do things for the community. I suspect most people just want to go to throw some money at their charity of choice and go home to watch the ball game. You also have dues if you aren't an endowed member so there is that as well.

I don't foresee any requirements being relaxed. Even as a young member I would never vote for that and neither would any other I know.

Eliminatus said:

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Texaggie7nine said:

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Eliminatus said:

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Isn't Freemasonry essentially in freefall with members?

I've looked into it in the past and am interested but fail to meet their requirements. Wonder if they will become more "lax" when membership hits critical levels?

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You are female, or you are atheist?

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Atheist. Had a couple of friends that were members and how I first heard about it. Always been fascinated by it and after cursory examination into it ran into that pesky snag.

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They don't need you, you've already been compromised. What would be the point?

Whereas a Muslim, or Hindu, or Pagan have not?

Why would anybody want to belong to a secret society which discriminates against non-members, has arcane rituals and justifies itself in the name of "community service'? I can do community service with the American Legion, which is composed of veterans, or with the Rotary Club. And that is exactly what I do.

Orko said:

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Eliminatus said:

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Texaggie7nine said:

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Eliminatus said:

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Isn't Freemasonry essentially in freefall with members?

I've looked into it in the past and am interested but fail to meet their requirements. Wonder if they will become more "lax" when membership hits critical levels?

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You are female, or you are atheist?

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Atheist. Had a couple of friends that were members and how I first heard about it. Always been fascinated by it and after cursory examination into it ran into that pesky snag.

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They don't need you, you've already been compromised. What would be the point?

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Que? Compromised?

UTExan said:

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Why would anybody want to belong to a secret society which discriminates against non-members, has arcane rituals and justifies itself in the name of "community service'? I can do community service with the American Legion, which is composed of veterans, or with the Rotary Club. And that is exactly what I do.

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That is not a question any man can answer on behalf of another man. You'll have to decide that for yourself or find a Freemason who is willing to share. I expect your efforts will be in vain if you open with such aggression and preconceived ideas. Many will not share such a deep personal decision under those circumstances.

Quote:

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Why would anybody want to belong to a secret society which discriminates against non-members, has arcane rituals and justifies itself in the name of "community service'? I can do community service with the American Legion, which is composed of veterans, or with the Rotary Club. And that is exactly what I do.

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Did I miss something tongue-in-cheek? It seems like both of these could be construed as having discrimination of non-members, rituals and justifies itself by "community service".

BrazosDog02 said:

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UTExan said:

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Why would anybody want to belong to a secret society which discriminates against non-members, has arcane rituals and justifies itself in the name of "community service'? I can do community service with the American Legion, which is composed of veterans, or with the Rotary Club. And that is exactly what I do.

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That is not a question any man can answer on behalf of another man. You'll have to decide that for yourself or find a Freemason who is willing to share. I expect your efforts will be in vain if you open with such aggression and preconceived ideas. Many will not share such a deep personal decision under those circumstances.

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It is not aggression. I have toured the local (Salt Lake) Masonic temple and have a friend deeply involved with them. Membership and identification with secret societies dedicated to protecting and promoting their own undercuts the integrity of social and public institutions because it compromises meritocracy. It is the same reason I oppose affirmative action on the basis of ethnicity.

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Membership and identification with secret societies dedicated to protecting and promoting their own undercuts the integrity of social and public institutions because it compromises meritocracy.

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From a societal perspective, there's value in identifying with people with similar views/values and desiring to promote them. it's very hard to ensure that you actually chose the one with the "highest merit" because you don't always know what someone may be. But, if you find someone who shares your values, it makes the risk of their actual performance lower. You may even accept a lower performance because of this.