What the US Catholic Church needs to do

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RAB91
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Copied from the FB page of a former poster on this site. I'm not sure I agree completely with #3 in the last section, but overall some good stuff in response to the latest crisis.

What the US #CatholicChurch needs to do (aka - what we should have done long ago).
Salvation of millions is literally on the line right now & if that doesn't light a fire under our butts, I don't know what will.
1 - this IS a spiritual crisis.
We have tolerated un-evangelized cultural Catholicism for too long. The average Catholic doesn't have a living relationship with #Jesus and that is the root of the issue. Without Jesus in our lives, we have no spiritual power.
2- the US Bishops need to stop thinking about how to issue statements that a Communication officer or public relations firm came up with. Start using Jesus' words about millstones, the wide path to destruction, or the parable of Lazarus & the rich man.
Hell is real!
3 - Each priest and Bishop should start a personal campaign of repentance, reparation, and renewal. Ditch all the trappings. Start fasting. Start a prayer campaign and lead it personally. Ask for forgiveness. Out the perpetrators & enablers. Preach the cross.
4 - start to work toward the coming cliff. There is nothing left to keep the cultural Catholic in the Church. So, the status quo of slow decline will now turn into an avalanche of organizational death.
Prepare for it by returning to the model of Jesus - which is...
5 - Personal evangelization and real community where we invest in a small community of folks and teach them to do the same with others. Go ahead and start to think about cutting the Diocesan staff to 1/4 of what it is (and probably should be already).
6 - Empower the laity to take up their call to change the world. Nothing else will suffice and without it, there will be no renewal. We can't maintain the clericalism and expect renewal or spiritual revival.
Every great time of renewal is a time the laity evangelizes.
7 - Submit yourself to others, so that you are accountable to them. Without this step, you will never regain the trust of the people
Also - the sullying of your reputation isn't the goal here, but it is inevitable. Saints rarely had good press! Aim at humility. Humiliation will come.
8 - Get ticked off & let others see your righteous anger. Jesus started flipping tables. How about some passion about the injustices that we are facing?!
-------------------------
I can't leave the Catholic Church. Not because I don't think there are terrible things going on. Rather, I won't leave because I know Jesus established it & the Holy Spirit still guides it...still...I love the Church enough to say this. I do not care if my own reputation is sullied because of my affiliation with the Church - but I will never stay quiet on evil.
I won't be ok with being ok.
I won't settle.
That is what got us in this mess in the first place.
-----------------
EDIT TO ADD:
What does the average lay person do? 10 things...
1 - Pray.
2 - Don't give up faith or hope. We believe & hope in God...NOT people. Believe God can still work through sinful people.
3 - Put your money into faithful & fruitful change-oriented apostolates and ministries. If they are the agents who can make disciples, evangelize, and affect change - help them grow and make more fruit by donating.
FYI - withholding money from your parish or diocese won't hurt those who are responsible, but only the average Catholic Church worker.
Still - give to things who can move the needle for Jesus.
4 - Be holy. Stop settling for being ok. We are supposed to call out the faults of others, but only AFTER we remove the plank from our own eye!
5 - Pray more.
6 - Invest in your family and friends.
7 - Evangelize with intention. Learn how to be a better evangelist. Be bold. Preach Jesus. Now is not the time for being shy.
8 - Pray.
9 - Sit at the feet of a more mature Catholic disciple, so you can be accountable to someone else. Make sure they have a vision on how to help you grow.
10 - Pray.
Marco Esquandolas
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AG
9. Bring hundreds of child molesting priests to justice.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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We must also pray for those who've perpetrated this evil because evil uses righteous anger to its advantage.

To abandon the Catholic Church because of this evil is to abandon the apostles because Peter and Judas betrayed Jesus.

Humans are sinful.
Seamaster
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AG
I agree with a lot of that.

I haven't read the full report but I understand that it covers 50+ decades. One would hope that many of the reforms put in place after the initial explosion of the scandal are helping/stopping this.

I would add a few more practical ones:

1) Greatly reduce the size of the diocese. One bishop, even a good one, cannot oversee (what the word bishop means) 1,000,000 + souls and thousands of clergy.

More here:

http://taylormarshall.com/2018/08/does-the-mega-diocese-foster-sexual-scandals-and-bad-priests-yes.html
Torbush
MemorialTXAg
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RAB91 said:

Copied from the FB page of a former poster on this site. I'm not sure I agree completely with #3 in the last section, but overall some good stuff in response to the latest crisis.

What the US #CatholicChurch needs to do (aka - what we should have done long ago).
Salvation of millions is literally on the line right now & if that doesn't light a fire under our butts, I don't know what will.
1 - this IS a spiritual crisis.
We have tolerated un-evangelized cultural Catholicism for too long. The average Catholic doesn't have a living relationship with #Jesus and that is the root of the issue. Without Jesus in our lives, we have no spiritual power.
2- the US Bishops need to stop thinking about how to issue statements that a Communication officer or public relations firm came up with. Start using Jesus' words about millstones, the wide path to destruction, or the parable of Lazarus & the rich man.
Hell is real!
3 - Each priest and Bishop should start a personal campaign of repentance, reparation, and renewal. Ditch all the trappings. Start fasting. Start a prayer campaign and lead it personally. Ask for forgiveness. Out the perpetrators & enablers. Preach the cross.
4 - start to work toward the coming cliff. There is nothing left to keep the cultural Catholic in the Church. So, the status quo of slow decline will now turn into an avalanche of organizational death.
Prepare for it by returning to the model of Jesus - which is...
5 - Personal evangelization and real community where we invest in a small community of folks and teach them to do the same with others. Go ahead and start to think about cutting the Diocesan staff to 1/4 of what it is (and probably should be already).
6 - Empower the laity to take up their call to change the world. Nothing else will suffice and without it, there will be no renewal. We can't maintain the clericalism and expect renewal or spiritual revival.
Every great time of renewal is a time the laity evangelizes.
7 - Submit yourself to others, so that you are accountable to them. Without this step, you will never regain the trust of the people
Also - the sullying of your reputation isn't the goal here, but it is inevitable. Saints rarely had good press! Aim at humility. Humiliation will come.
8 - Get ticked off & let others see your righteous anger. Jesus started flipping tables. How about some passion about the injustices that we are facing?!
-------------------------
I can't leave the Catholic Church. Not because I don't think there are terrible things going on. Rather, I won't leave because I know Jesus established it & the Holy Spirit still guides it...still...I love the Church enough to say this. I do not care if my own reputation is sullied because of my affiliation with the Church - but I will never stay quiet on evil.
I won't be ok with being ok.
I won't settle.
That is what got us in this mess in the first place.
-----------------
EDIT TO ADD:
What does the average lay person do? 10 things...
1 - Pray.
2 - Don't give up faith or hope. We believe & hope in God...NOT people. Believe God can still work through sinful people.
3 - Put your money into faithful & fruitful change-oriented apostolates and ministries. If they are the agents who can make disciples, evangelize, and affect change - help them grow and make more fruit by donating.
FYI - withholding money from your parish or diocese won't hurt those who are responsible, but only the average Catholic Church worker.
Still - give to things who can move the needle for Jesus.
4 - Be holy. Stop settling for being ok. We are supposed to call out the faults of others, but only AFTER we remove the plank from our own eye!
5 - Pray more.
6 - Invest in your family and friends.
7 - Evangelize with intention. Learn how to be a better evangelist. Be bold. Preach Jesus. Now is not the time for being shy.
8 - Pray.
9 - Sit at the feet of a more mature Catholic disciple, so you can be accountable to someone else. Make sure they have a vision on how to help you grow.
10 - Pray.


How about you start by giving up a name of every pos fraud priest who participated to authorities and kick them out immediately. Replace the pope and all high level failure immediately.

This systematic failure and rape is not unique to Philly but has shown over and over that it's a global catholic thing. Every catholic should reconsider what they are a part of here.
unimboti nkum
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Quote:

Rather, I won't leave because I know Jesus established it & the Holy Spirit still guides it...still...I love the Church enough to say this.

The Holy Spirit guides the church that systematically covered up child rape for decades? You'd think god would have intervened at some point.
DaBaba
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Yup. When an organization fails this hard consistently it's a problem with those at the very top.
Texaggie7nine
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Quote:

Salvation of millions is literally on the line right now


What a loving God we have. To allow millions of souls to go onto eternal torment because of mistakes of others.
7nine
Dad-O-Lot
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I agree with pretty much all of the OP.

I would add:

11) Don't take advice from anyone who is pleased to see you fail.
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
MemorialTXAg
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The OP and the FB post highlight the issue. Zero accountability from the community. Zero call for widespread criminal investigation, zero accountability from the pope and the top of Catholic Church. This isn't about Catholics, this is about the victims of their actions.
dermdoc
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My two cents

How about just address the problem of child abuse by priests? All the things listed were supposed to be happening anyway. Fix the problem. Zero tolerance.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
UTExan
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You will never get accountability with the various hierarchies and church bureaucracy in place. The priestly caste is very jealous of its position and will, as history demonstrates, protect their own.
The good news is that Catholics who are serious about a relationship with Jesus will create their own communities, just like Protestants who are fed up with the corporate mega churches and denominations which have more interest in secular politics or their version of social justice rather than articulating a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
The house church movement is a good indicator of this disaffection with the status quo.
AGC
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Is all this stuff a feature or a bug? The scale and scope would indicate the former, not the latter.
Quad Dog
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As an outsider I don't see anything on that list that is a tangible option that will bring change.
Quote:

1 - this IS a spiritual crisis.

We have tolerated un-evangelized cultural Catholicism for too long. The average Catholic doesn't have a living relationship with #Jesus and that is the root of the issue. Without Jesus in our lives, we have no spiritual power.

Not a spiritual crisis. Not a problem that the average Catholic's relationship with Jesus has anything to do with. This is systemic crisis of those that are supposed to be of the highest faith committing crimes or covering up those crimes.
Quote:

3 - Each priest and Bishop should start a personal campaign of repentance, reparation, and renewal. Ditch all the trappings. Start fasting. Start a prayer campaign and lead it personally. Ask for forgiveness. Out the perpetrators & enablers. Preach the cross.
Don't ask for forgiveness or repentance. Commit to a plan that makes it so there is nothing to repent.
Quote:

7 - Submit yourself to others, so that you are accountable to them. Without this step, you will never regain the trust of the people
Unless you submit yourself under confession, then it can be covered up.
Quote:

3 - Put your money into faithful & fruitful change-oriented apostolates and ministries. If they are the agents who can make disciples, evangelize, and affect change - help them grow and make more fruit by donating.
Not possible if this keeps being covered up by higher powers. How is the average Catholic supposed to know which ministries to support is criminal's names aren't released or keep getting moved around?
Quote:

10 - Pray.
Have people not been praying so far? Not praying correctly? You've been praying and it keeps happening, try something else.



It's not a perfect analogy but I compare this to Boy Scouts of America. My son is a Cub Scout, but that's about all our involvement I'm not a leader, just a parent who goes to the acitivities, and even I have to do the below. BSA had 2000 cases of abuse before 1994. In 1988 they created a program to fight it. It's not perfect, but if you want examples of tangible changes, here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_sex_abuse_cases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_Protection_program_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)
  • Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The "two-deep" policy requires that a minimum of two adults be present during all activities to minimize the potential for clandestine abuse.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_sex_abuse_cases#cite_note-12][12][/url] The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.
  • No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.
  • Respect of privacy. Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations.
  • Separate accommodations. When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers.
  • Proper preparation for high-adventure activities. Activities with elements of risk should never be undertaken without proper preparation, equipment, clothing, supervision, and safety measures.
  • No secret organizations. The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.
  • Appropriate attire. Proper clothing for activities is required. For example, skinny-dipping is not appropriate as part of scouting.
  • Constructive discipline. Discipline used in scouting should be constructive and reflect the values of the organization. Corporal punishment is never permitted.
  • Hazing prohibited. Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any scouting activity.
  • Junior leader training and supervision. Adult leaders must monitor and guide the leadership techniques used by junior leaders and ensure that BSA policies are followed.

In 2003 they added criminal background checks.

All adults are required to undergo a criminal background check and to complete a Youth Protection Program training before being registered as BSA leaders and they must be re-certified every 2 years. Venture Crew leaders will complete the Venturing Leader Youth Protection training. If a Crew is also associated with a Troop, the adult leaders must complete both Youth Protection training and Venturing Leader Youth Protection training. This is a requirement fulfilling the internet recharter process. When properly implemented, the program also helps to protect adult leaders from any accusations of impropriety.

BSA has made the program available for use by other youth organizations, but the Boy Scouts have done the most in implementing it and have probably instructed more young people and parents in how to recognize and prevent child abuse in any venue. The Boy Scouts of America Youth Protection Plan was cited as a resource that other youth organizations might use in the Center For Disease Control' s publication "Preventing Child Sexual Abuse Within Youth-serving Organizations: Getting Started on Policies and Procedures"


Zobel
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Howsabout they just revert to the ancient practice of married clergy? The original line of thinking for the celibate clergy was to prevent worldly abuses of property. I don't think this is a major potential issue any longer, and the obvious consequences of the celibacy requirement would outweigh it anyway.

It isn't as if there is some theological or doctrinal issue at stake. They do it now - married clergy from other churches such as Anglicans are a thing.
ramblin_ag02
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Quote:

How about just address the problem of child abuse by priests? All the things listed were supposed to be happening anyway. Fix the problem. Zero tolerance.
Over the past 60 years the Catholic Church has to be the most successful pedophile ring in the world, right? Based on number of cases, locations and countries involved, and lack of prosecution of the offenders I don't think anyone else comes close. I think if it were anything but the largest single religious organization in the world it would have been torn down by now.

I just don't get why every diocese isn't bending over backward to hand over the perpetrators to the local authorities in each and every case. If clergy were committing murder or burglary, I don't think the RCC would whisk them all back to the Vatican to prevent prosecution.
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Texaggie7nine
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To me, it seems easy to fix this issue. This is an issue with abuse of minors. Why not put internal regulations on how minors are handled throughout the catholic world just like most non denominational churches, the boy scouts, schools, and any other organization that has minors participate? That being such regulations as, never allow any adult member to be alone with any minor. Maybe require at least 2 adults and at least 3 or more minors. You can have confessions with minors but require that the minor is in a separate part of a confessional booth, and that outside the booth are other adults.

You have to think, every minor in these churches have parents. These parents need to demand these types of restrictions and be allowed to make sure they are being enforced.

I just don't understand, how in this day and age a church, including the parishioners, can still be allowing clergy to have isolated access to minors. It would seem to me that all the future cases that come out would be from well before all this controversy started.
7nine
AGC
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k2aggie07 said:

Howsabout they just revert to the ancient practice of married clergy? The original line of thinking for the celibate clergy was to prevent worldly abuses of property. I don't think this is a major potential issue any longer, and the obvious consequences of the celibacy requirement would outweigh it anyway.

It isn't as if there is some theological or doctrinal issue at stake. They do it now - married clergy from other churches such as Anglicans are a thing.


That sounds good but how does it develop organically without absorbing a large amount from other congregations and having cultural issues? The Theodore Mccarrick scandal underscores just how much power bishops et al have over priests, seminarians, and promotions. There are entrenched interests and like-minded priests presiding over these activities.
AGC
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Texaggie7nine said:

To me, it seems easy to fix this issue. This is an issue with abuse of minors. Why not put internal regulations on how minors are handled throughout the catholic world just like most non denominational churches, the boy scouts, schools, and any other organization that has minors participate? That being such regulations as, never allow any adult member to be alone with any minor. Maybe require at least 2 adults and at least 3 or more minors. You can have confessions with minors but require that the minor is in a separate part of a confessional booth, and that outside the booth are other adults.

You have to think, every minor in these churches have parents. These parents need to demand these types of restrictions and be allowed to make sure they are being enforced.

I just don't understand, how in this day and age a church, including the parishioners, can still be allowing clergy to have isolated access to minors. It would seem to me that all the future cases that come out would be from well before all this controversy started.


If you haven't read the allegations, groups of these men posed children naked and groomed the for abuse. This is systemic and a function of the practices coming out of priest and seminarian selection for advancement.
Dad-O-Lot
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Some Dioceses have similar rules.

In the Diocese of Austin, anyone involved in a Ministry which has any contact with youth or vulnerable adults, or which will be meeting in a facility which may have youth or vulnerable adults present, must have a background check and receive mandatory training.

These requirements apply to clergy as well as the laity.

The training must be repeated every three years.
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
ChiefHaus
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#YESSIR! said:


This systematic failure and rape is not unique to Philly but has shown over and over that it's a global catholic thing. Every catholic should reconsider what they are a part of here.
No, they should not. The Catholic Church has done things this bad and worse over the last 2000 years and it still persists. Catholics need to demand accountability and transparency and not stop until the Bishops or the Pope act (which history has shown that they will do the least amount they can get away with.)

When they do not, I hope and pray the media and justice systems around the world do what our church leaders have failed to do. Expose and prosecute. Most of the grand jury testimony was gleaned from the diocesan records. This proves Church leadership documented at least a small portion of what was known.

The chaff needs to separated from the wheat and anyone who participated in covering it up needs to go as well. Priests and bishops should be laicized for the parts they played. I believe that most of us hoped the worst was going to be behind us and after 2002 and Boston. When the Bishops removed themselves from being held accountable at the conference in Dallas, it proved that they did not want to be held to their own standards. Now we know why, unbelievable.

I think the reason for the priest shortage in America is that most of the seminaries and ecumenical leaders were not acting Catholic at all. Time for a reset. I hope all the Catholic Bishops offer their resignation, and I hope the Pope accepts.

As for me, I will continue to attend Mass and confession and adoration. The Sacraments are God's gift of grace no matter how awful/holy the sinner who is performing those rites. In this we take refuge.
Zobel
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Why do you have to absorb from without? I am certain that there are thousands upon thousands of pious men who would make excellent presbyters already in the Roman church - married, with children.

As for the rot at the top of the hierarchy, that truly is an issue for the laity to handle. Bishops are servants of the church, not royalty. Communion is an expression of the highest form of assent to that person. When a bishop or a priest is at fault with a grievous sin, the laity should denounce it. This may result in the laity being excommunicated by that bishop - and if this is the case, this must be an acceptable consequence to the laity. If the situation cannot be corrected, the laity has a choice - continue to receive communion, or refuse as a sign of rejection of that bishop. Communion works both ways, and all Christians are part of the liturgical act of communion - those who perform the offering, and those who say the amen. A priest or bishop cannot canonically offer a mass or communion if there are no laity present.
Texaggie7nine
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Quote:

If you haven't read the allegations, groups of these men posed children naked and groomed the for abuse. This is systemic and a function of the practices coming out of priest and seminarian selection for advancement.
I did read it. But what necessary part of daily catholic life would require those men to have private access to a single minor like that? It seems that regulations like described by Quad, would prevent that scenario from ever happening.
7nine
AGC
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Texaggie7nine said:

Quote:

If you haven't read the allegations, groups of these men posed children naked and groomed the for abuse. This is systemic and a function of the practices coming out of priest and seminarian selection for advancement.
I did read it. But what necessary part of daily catholic life would require those men to have private access to a single minor like that? It seems that regulations like described by Quad, would prevent that scenario from ever happening.


I agree but the specific allusion I was making regarded a rule where two or more adults are present. It only works for a system that is uncorrupted. Often pedophiles do not act in isolation but have networks that support them (not just those inside the church but also those without). So will it work in the church with so many pederasts and pedophiles exposed in its ranks? How much adult supervision is enough without purging the hierarchy?

Another thought: would any of these men have failed a background check? So what good would it do. The church needs a massive purge before it reforms to that degree.
AGC
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k2aggie07 said:

Why do you have to absorb from without? I am certain that there are thousands upon thousands of pious men who would make excellent presbyters already in the Roman church - married, with children.

As for the rot at the top of the hierarchy, that truly is an issue for the laity to handle. Bishops are servants of the church, not royalty. Communion is an expression of the highest form of assent to that person. When a bishop or a priest is at fault with a grievous sin, the laity should denounce it. This may result in the laity being excommunicated by that bishop - and if this is the case, this must be an acceptable consequence to the laity. If the situation cannot be corrected, the laity has a choice - continue to receive communion, or refuse as a sign of rejection of that bishop. Communion works both ways, and all Christians are part of the liturgical act of communion - those who perform the offering, and those who say the amen. A priest or bishop cannot canonically offer a mass or communion if there are no laity present.


I did not suggest taking from without. It's just not a simple solution given the numbers of these types of priests inside the church and shifting all over the country. Especially when you take into account that they are promoted to bishops and can hire as they choose, so as to protect and replenish their ranks (ala Mccarrick).

What we have learned from the laity is that they will not withdraw as they do not understand the problem (or worse, may see it as the world besieging the RCC - never mind the decades of abuse and scandals). The Facebook post that was copied represents an excellent example of this.

Edit: some of my friends feel that this is like 1517 all over again. Who can fault Martin Luther his thoughts, know what that church has become not just here but throughout central and south America (wasn't it Chile where they just seized church docs on their pedo investigation)?
lespaul
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"Pope Francis Silent About 1,000 Children Abused by Priests in Pennsylvania"

from msn.com

How do I insert a gif of Ted Knight from Caddyshack ("Well, we're waiting")?
Marco Esquandolas
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start a post, then click the blue picture frame icon, then paste the gif url into the text bar.
BusterAg
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I vote for American Trappist monestaries.
In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense -George Orwell, 1984, Part 1, Chapter 7
Latigo
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ChiefHaus said:

#YESSIR! said:


This systematic failure and rape is not unique to Philly but has shown over and over that it's a global catholic thing. Every catholic should reconsider what they are a part of here.
No, they should not. The Catholic Church has done things this bad and worse over the last 2000 years and it still persists. Catholics need to demand accountability and transparency and not stop until the Bishops or the Pope act (which history has shown that they will do the least amount they can get away with.)

When they do not, I hope and pray the media and justice systems around the world do what our church leaders have failed to do. Expose and prosecute. Most of the grand jury testimony was gleaned from the diocesan records. This proves Church leadership documented at least a small portion of what was known.

The chaff needs to separated from the wheat and anyone who participated in covering it up needs to go as well. Priests and bishops should be laicized for the parts they played. I believe that most of us hoped the worst was going to be behind us and after 2002 and Boston. When the Bishops removed themselves from being held accountable at the conference in Dallas, it proved that they did not want to be held to their own standards. Now we know why, unbelievable.

I think the reason for the priest shortage in America is that most of the seminaries and ecumenical leaders were not acting Catholic at all. Time for a reset. I hope all the Catholic Bishops offer their resignation, and I hope the Pope accepts.

As for me, I will continue to attend Mass and confession and adoration. The Sacraments are God's gift of grace no matter how awful/holy the sinner who is performing those rites. In this we take refuge.

Would you still continue if they were your children that were abused? How do you explain to the victims that although the priest that abused you is a criminal he was still administering grace to you when he wasn't molesting you?
Fonzie Scheme
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Or, when he was rinsing out your child's mouth with holy water after he forced the boy to fellate him.
ChiefHaus
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Excellent question. Honestly, yes I would but it would be very difficult. Without going through specifics or a testimony, I will say my faith has been tested and I have experienced things I can not explain other than to believe in the Catholic Church. I also realize the Church is comprised of sinners and even the best of us will fail often. The unrepentant and outright evil sinners will fail spectacularly and will destroy the lives of those they encounter. For them all we can do is once they are identified, they must face civil justice and be removed from the clergy.

I am about halfway through reading the entire report and I will tell you that some of the parents were vehement, persistent, and outright aggessive in pursuing justice against their perpetrators. The diocese lived in fear of these parents and it was their attitude and aggression that forced some of the leaders to address the issue they wished to ignore or take care of in house.

I understand it is easy to say what you would do, but until you are in those shoes you do not know. I never wanted to say how to handle this as I have never been in this situation and am only answering the question posed to me. That being said, the best course of action would seem to be to lawyer up immediately and go public with the accusation. Do not rely on the Church to resolve anything, they have been given enough chances to fix their issues and have failed spectacularly over and over again.

Yes, I would explain exactly that to my kids. In fact I have already had those discussions and in light of recent events I continue to have and monitor my kids access with other adults. How to address this with an adult who had this happen to them as a child would be a different story. I have no idea how to approach that issue. Those people have been destroyed over and over again. The Church continues to desecrate their souls by not addressing the issue and attempting to make reparations. Until these victims are given a day to confront their abusers and those who helped deny them justice, things will get worse. We are reaping what we sow.
AgLiving06
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For Catholics, I have a question.

I believe Pope John Paul is now considered a Saint within the Catholic Church.

This scandal also largely took place under his watch and it appears it was more or less ignored or covered up.

Does this taint your view of him as a Saint?
ChiefHaus
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My quick answer is no but it depends on what he knew and what he did with it. Sainthood is man's attempt to figure God's judgement. I leave it up to God, but I can appreciate the good that a preson did accomplish in life and try to emulate that part. I know they had sin in them, they're human.
Dad-O-Lot
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AG
Statement from Daniel Cardinal DiNardo, President of USCCB
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
Frok
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AG
Quote:

What the US Catholic Church needs to do


It needs to start more threads on Texags

-LHoward2002
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