Authentic Masculinity vs Toxic Masculinity

4,376 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by BrazosDog02
Seamaster
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AG


Torbush
diehard03
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I get their point, but it still swings too far back into the "caveman" mentality for me. For instance, the "feminist" response to aggressive male is for them to be passive. But this response is they should be aggressive. The response SHOULD be, "yes, aggressive is bad; men should be assertive".

Also, everyone getting a trophy isn't a male problem. Women are incorrectly taught the same things.

Having a woman do this video has a strange disingenuous vibe to it for me. I don't know that is.
Seamaster
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What resonates with me is that authentic masculinity is not bravado or machismo but being honest, strong, helpful, chivalrous, & kind. Its not skirting your responsibilities (absentee fathers) but owning responsibility - work, family, spouse etc.

Its not fancy cars or tattoos and big muscles. Its working late, fixing the broken faucet and actively parenting your kids.

This the kind of masculinity we need.

Torbush
PacifistAg
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We don't need the "right" kind of masculinity or femininity (which is often defined by society and ever-changing). We need followers of Christ to look like Jesus. He's the example, for both men and women.
diehard03
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But the video insists that the toxic and the authentic come from the same place, which I don't agree with.
ramblin_ag02
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Quote:

We don't need the "right" kind of masculinity or femininity (which is often defined by society and ever-changing). We need followers of Christ to look like Jesus. He's the example, for both men and women.
Masculinity and femininity are empty, ever-changing concepts with no real value or virtue.

Some people have abilities and capabilities that other people don't. Some of those are related to sex. Use the abilities that God gives you in His service and worry less about the things which other people do better. Back to the "not everyone is an eye" situation.
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Star Wars Memes Only
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ramblin_ag02 said:

Some people have abilities and capabilities that other people don't. Some of those are related to sex.


That's right ladies, how you doin?
AggieRain
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Toxic masculinity is just another in a long line of boogeymen.
PacifistAg
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Quote:

Its working late, fixing the broken faucet and actively parenting your kids.

This the kind of masculinity we need.
This seems seriously flawed. My brother is a stay-at-home dad. His wife is a corporate patent attorney. When they had their 2nd child, he decided to quit his job so they could homeschool. Is he less "masculine" because of that? I think it's silly to make such a claim. As for fixing a faucet, there are some women who love stuff like that and have a skill for it. There are some men who aren't. My wife is far more technologically savvy than I am, and she's always the one to set up, or fix, any electronics issue. She's possesses a skill that I do not. And "actively parenting your kids" knows no gender construct. Both mother/father should be active parents.
PacifistAg
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AggieRain said:

Toxic masculinity is just another in a long line of boogeymen.
I would disagree. I think it can have very real adverse impact, especially on young boys. When we have a flawed understanding of what it means to "be a man", then we can pass those things down to our children. There was a great Ted Talk from a former NFL player on this problem:



Now, the term can often be misused, but when it's used properly, it can be a very real problem that shapes how boys grow up and the kind of men our daughters think are acceptable as partners.
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schmendeler
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I say, be yourself, but don't be dick. And from time to time, look at your actions and words and try to honestly assess if you're trending towards the latter.

Nothing wrong with being masculine, but there's a difference between assertion and dominance. Some men don't get that. Some women, too, these days. You've got some guys being overly dominant towards others and playing the victim when called out. But you've also got women playing the victim at men, saying they are being aggressive, when they are just being assertive.
PacifistAg
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AstroAg17 said:

I'd claim that being a stay-at-home dad is less masculine than providing for your family by working. It doesn't seem like a silly claim to me, it seems obvious based on how our society defines masculinity.
Well, I think that highlights the problem of how society defines masculinity, especially since it implicitly states that being a stay-at-home parent doesn't involve "working". It's just providing for a family by working towards their education/emotional support/upbringing, as opposed to working for their financial support. The areas in which they "work to provide" are simply different, but they are still working to provide.
tehmackdaddy
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RetiredAg said:

AstroAg17 said:

I'd claim that being a stay-at-home dad is less masculine than providing for your family by working. It doesn't seem like a silly claim to me, it seems obvious based on how our society defines masculinity.
Well, I think that highlights the problem of how society defines masculinity, especially since it implicitly states that being a stay-at-home parent doesn't involve "working". It's just providing for a family by working towards their education/emotional support/upbringing, as opposed to working for their financial support. The areas in which they "work to provide" are simply different, but they are still working to provide.
If working at home is "working", then why do you have an issue with this post:

Quote:

It's working late, fixing the broken faucet and actively parenting your kids.
PacifistAg
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tehmackdaddy said:

RetiredAg said:

AstroAg17 said:

I'd claim that being a stay-at-home dad is less masculine than providing for your family by working. It doesn't seem like a silly claim to me, it seems obvious based on how our society defines masculinity.
Well, I think that highlights the problem of how society defines masculinity, especially since it implicitly states that being a stay-at-home parent doesn't involve "working". It's just providing for a family by working towards their education/emotional support/upbringing, as opposed to working for their financial support. The areas in which they "work to provide" are simply different, but they are still working to provide.
If working at home is "working", then why do you have an issue with this post:

Quote:

It's working late, fixing the broken faucet and actively parenting your kids.

Because I am operating under the assumption that when he is talking about "working late", he's referring to staying in the office late, then coming home. Also, fixing a broken faucet or "actively parenting your kids" has nothing to do with masculinity.
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PacifistAg
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AstroAg17 said:

RetiredAg said:

Well, I think that highlights the problem of how society defines masculinity, especially since it implicitly states that being a stay-at-home parent doesn't involve "working".
You're conflating the two definitions of working. You knew that I meant working to mean having a job, and you pretended that I was using working to mean labor. Don't be disingenuous. You knew what I meant and I didn't imply stay at home parents don't labor.
I'm not saying the problem was with what you said, but how society defines masculinity. Having a job isn't, in and of itself, masculine. It doesn't make one less masculine to not have one, especially when the reason is to work at home as your child's primary source of education and physical support. Unpaid labor or paid labor, it doesn't really matter. The stay-at-home parent still provides for their family, just in different ways.

Edited to add: I do sincerely apologize for not wording my post in a clearer way. It was not my intent to conflate, be disingenuous or in any way misrepresent what you said.
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Seamaster
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Odd. RetiredAg putting words in my mouth again.

Sigh. I didn't say that the examples I gave were exhaustive. Sure, a stay at home dad can be authentically masculine too.

Torbush
Dad-O-Lot
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A stay-at-home Dad is, or can be, just as masculine as a Dad holding a job.

Masculinity isn't defined by what you do for a living; or what you consider your "work".

One aspect of masculinity is giving up one's own desires in order to help and support your family. That could be staying late in the office; that could be changing diapers.

It's doing what needs to be done for the family; regardless of what others think about it.

It is the attitude of serving and protecting those you love.

Selfless service for your family in whatever manner they need -- whether it's doing laundry, or protecting from a predator. That is masculinity.
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
PacifistAg
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Seamaster said:

Odd. RetiredAg putting words in my mouth again.

Sigh. I didn't say that the examples I gave were exhaustive. Sure, a stay at home dad can be authentically masculine too.


I didn't put words in your mouth. I never claimed you said the examples were exhaustive. I addressed your examples specifically, and how flawed they are and seem to point to a flawed understanding of masculinity.
Seamaster
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Athanasius
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Zobel
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Curious - true or false:

In general, a man will be more suited to working out of the home, and a woman will be more suited to staying home with the children.
Athanasius
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Zobel
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Here's another - true or false:

Traditional gender roles are a kind of average expression of absolute physiological differences between the sexes?
Athanasius
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k2aggie07 said:

Curious - true or false:

In general, a man will be more suited to working out of the home, and a woman will be more suited to staying home with the children.
schmendeler
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k2aggie07 said:

Curious - true or false:

In general, a man will be more suited to working out of the home, and a woman will be more suited to staying home with the children.
i'm not sure.

i think women are definitely more suited to caring for the children than men are.

but i don't know that that necessarily means that women are more suited to staying home with them. most women i know would hate to be stay at home moms.
Star Wars Memes Only
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Athanasius said:

k2aggie07 said:

Curious - true or false:

In general, a man will be more suited to working out of the home, and a woman will be more suited to staying home with the children.



That face without a caption....rofl.
Dad-O-Lot
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A true man is willing to do what is necessary even if it isn't what he's most comfortable doing or what he's best at.
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
schmendeler
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Dad-O-Lot said:

A true man is willing to do what is necessary even if it isn't what he's most comfortable doing or what he's best at.
that's what she said?
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ramblin_ag02
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Quote:

Here's another - true or false:

Traditional gender roles are a kind of average expression of absolute physiological differences between the sexes?
I think men are best at getting women pregnant, and women are best at having babies. I'm not saying any more than that. Nowadays even that is enough to get someone set upon by the SJ mob
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