I have doubts about the authenticity of this quote. What is the source?

According to Wikipedia, for what its worth:

Attributed in "The Conflict Between Church And State In The Third Reich", by S. Parkes Cadman, La Crosse Tribune and Leader-Press (28 October 1934), viewable online on p. 9 of the issue here (double-click the page to zoom). The quote is preceded by "In this connection it is worth quoting in free translation a statement made by Professor Einstein last year to one of my colleagues who has been prominently identified with the Protestant church in its contacts with Germany." [Emphasis added.] While based on something that Einstein said, Einstein himself stated that the quote was not an accurate record of his words or opinion. After the quote appeared in Time magazine

Seems to likely be an attempt to misuse the words of a famous non believer for the sake of trying to somehow prove the truthfulness of Christianity. It also feels like an attempt to pad the Christian victimization stats and low ball every one else's. I get that Christians are enormously oppressed in other countries, but Thad needs to convince me that he cares about oppression of anyone other than Christians before I'm going to engage in that discussion.

Any read "Hitler's Pope" about Pius XII?

It certainly doesn't give the impression that the church is innocent in WWII...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler%27s_Pope

80% of the prisoners were Christians? I'm going to need to see the caveats on that.

schmendeler said:

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80% of the prisoners were Christians? I'm going to need to see the caveats on that.

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A lot of polish, Soviet, Serbian, Romanian etc. prisoners of war were sent to the camps as well. I don't know what percentage were Christian or if its fair to characterize their imprisonment as being religiously based vs. nationality based. Either way, 80% seems very inflated. I would also be curious to know where that number came from.

"Hitler's Pope" is Commie propaganda for the duped.

Mit Brenneder Sorge, the only Papal Encyclical ever written in German, was read from the pulpit of every German Church in 1937, and it condemned the Nazis. That is why over 6000 Catholic Priests were executed in the camps.

Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, the Scarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican, rescued thousands of Jews. The Vatican overall saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Jews by hiding them in Castel Gondolfo, the Vatican, and in Rome.

The Chief Rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism after the war, because, like Einstein, he too was impressed with the way the Church stood up to Hitler.

If you asked my grandfather, he probably would have agreed with that figure, but that is very anecdotal. He never saw any of the Jewish camps, but he did spend a great deal of time interrogating the germans sent to the Serbian camps to make sure they were actually germans and not serbians trying to escape Russian control.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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If you asked my grandfather, he probably would have agreed with that figure, but that is very anecdotal. He never saw any of the Jewish camps, but he did spend a great deal of time interrogating the germans sent to the Serbian camps to make sure they were actually germans and not serbians trying to escape Russian control.

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I'm skeptical of that 80% number, but would say that I feel I'm wholly unqualified in history knowledge to argue exact numbers. I am questioning the way the OP's quote frames the issue. If allied forces captured a German soldier in WW2 that was a Christian, is he a "Christian prisoner" or is he a "German prisoner". You can say both, technically, but I think that the way you describe the prisoner may show a bias.

In other words, there were definitely millions of Christian POWs and prisoners sent to German camps. Were they 'Christian prisoners'? Or were they prisoners of adversarial countries at war who happened to be Christian? Maybe a little of both? I think its a valid distinction, but again, I don't think I'm informed enough on my history to argue one way or the other.

Also, is a POW camp a "concentration camp"? Let's also be clear that a concentration camp isn't necessarily a "death camp".

Thaddeus73 said:

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"Hitler's Pope" is Commie propaganda for the duped.

Mit Brenneder Sorge, the only Papal Encyclical ever written in German, was read from the pulpit of every German Church in 1937, and it condemned the Nazis. That is why over 6000 Catholic Priests were executed in the camps.

Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, the Scarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican, rescued thousands of Jews. The Vatican overall saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Jews by hiding them in Castel Gondolfo, the Vatican, and in Rome.

The Chief Rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism after the war, because, like Einstein, he too was impressed with the way the Church stood up to Hitler.

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Thad, you may not want to trumpet Zolli too much. His conversion had nothing to do with how the Church approached the Holocaust and his own congregants were upset with him for hiding during the Nazi occupation.

As for the Church during the Nazi era, it's telling that the best you can do are individual cases of helping Jews and others. The Catholic Church didn't support Hitler, but as an organization they didn't do much to oppose him. And the vast majority of Catholics in Germany served under the Nazis.

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The Catholic Church didn't support Hitler, but as an organization they didn't do much to oppose him. And the vast majority of Catholics in Germany served under the Nazis.

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And the vast majority of Catholics Lutherans in Germany served under the Nazis.

FIFY....

The Catholic Church saved hundreds of thousands of Jews, and it wrote an encyclical opposing Hitler....No other organization did anything near that, with the exception of the Allied Forces....

Thaddeus73 said:

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The Catholic Church didn't support Hitler, but as an organization they didn't do much to oppose him. And the vast majority of Catholics in Germany served under the Nazis.

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And the vast majority of Catholics Lutherans in Germany served under the Nazis.

FIFY....

The Catholic Church saved hundreds of thousands of Jews, and it wrote an encyclical opposing Hitler....No other organization did anything near that, with the exception of the Allied Forces....

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Privately individuals associated with the Church did great deeds. The Church itself, however, was silent on the Holocaust.

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Privately individuals associated with the Church did great deeds. The Church itself, however, was silent on the Holocaust.

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Every time Pius XII spoke out against Hitler, whether from the pulpit in German Catholic Churches, or whether from the Vatican, the Nazis killed even more Catholic priests and nuns.

Working behind the scenes, the Catholic Church saved around 800,000 Jews from the death camps. Which is better, I think. And that's why Einstein and the head Rabbi of Rome were so impressed with the Church.

* Golda Meir, Israeli representative to the United Nations and future prime minister of Israel, stated upon Pius XII's death: "We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. . . . During the ten years of Nazi terror, when our people passed through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims."

* Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, stated upon Pius XII's death: "With special gratitude we remember all he has done for the persecuted Jews during one of the darkest periods in their entire history."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1999/10/02/praise-for-pius-xii/37c27df8-9231-4674-804d-a3306b49b56f/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bfc89ef6eca8

Thaddeus73 said:

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Privately individuals associated with the Church did great deeds. The Church itself, however, was silent on the Holocaust.

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Every time Pius XII spoke out against Hitler, whether from the pulpit in German Catholic Churches, or whether from the Vatican, the Nazis killed even more Catholic priests and nuns.

Working behind the scenes, the Catholic Church saved around 800,000 Jews from the death camps. Which is better, I think. And that's why Einstein and the head Rabbi of Rome were so impressed with the Church.

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Again, the Einstein quote is not accurate. And the Rabbi had been moving to convert for some time. Your assertions are simply not accurate. Pious was more concerned with the Soviets than he was with the Nazis.

Thaddeus73 said:

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Privately individuals associated with the Church did great deeds. The Church itself, however, was silent on the Holocaust.

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Every time Pius XII spoke out against Hitler, whether from the pulpit in German Catholic Churches, or whether from the Vatican, the Nazis killed even more Catholic priests and nuns.

Working behind the scenes, the Catholic Church saved around 800,000 Jews from the death camps. Which is better, I think. And that's why Einstein and the head Rabbi of Rome were so impressed with the Church.

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Can you back up that 800,000 number? You've made no attempt to justify the 80% figure or defend what seems like a fake quote. I have no problem discuss the merits of the church as it relates to the Holocaust and to commend them where they did well. I don't see why you have to make **** up in order to make a point though. If you want to use facts and numbers, back them up and tell us where they came from. Otherwise it's just nonsense.

The wiki article you linked states that the author of Hitler's Pope, John Cornwell has backed off of much of what he claimed in the book. Pius XII nor the Church was hardly in bed with Hitler, at worst you could argue it could have done more, an accusation that could be said about the entire western world.

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Can you back up that 800,000 number?

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It is a number I've seen bandied about. I have know idea how that number was determined.

The Vatican & the Holocaust: 860,000 Lives Saved - The Truth About Pius XII & the Jews

800,000 Saved by Pius XIIs Silence

'Pope Pius XII Saved Thousands of Jews'

As for the 80% figure if accurate, there is a huge difference between extermination camps that the Jewish population was sent to and the concentration camps of other "undesirables" largely political prisoners but also clergy (primarily Catholic but also mostly from occupied nations), Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuals.

Hitler's first treaty was with the Vatican.
His birthday was celebrated from the Catholic pulpit every year.
Anti Semitism was an official doctrine of the Catholic church until 1963.
No sympathy for Hitler.
No use for the Catholic church, a very wealthy protector of child rapists.

fwheightsboy said:

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Hitler's first treaty was with the Vatican.
His birthday was celebrated from the Catholic pulpit every year.
Anti Semitism was an official doctrine of the Catholic church until 1963.
No sympathy for Hitler.
No use for the Catholic church, a very wealthy protector of child rapists.

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fwheightsboy said:

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Hitler's first treaty was with the Vatican.
His birthday was celebrated from the Catholic pulpit every year.
Anti Semitism was an official doctrine of the Catholic church until 1963.
No sympathy for Hitler.
No use for the Catholic church, a very wealthy protector of child rapists.

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No use for the Catholic church, a very wealthy protector of child rapists.

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Reverend Tony Alamo, Reverend David Koresh, Reverend Warren Jeffs, Reverend Joseph Smith......Prots do it too...

Thaddeus73 said:

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No use for the Catholic church, a very wealthy protector of child rapists.

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Reverend Tony Alamo, Reverend David Koresh, Reverend Warren Jeffs, Reverend Joseph Smith......Prots do it too...

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I know facts aren't your specialty, but mormons and its offshoots arent Protestants.

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I know facts aren't your specialty, but mormons and its offshoots arent Protestants.

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Yes, they are. They too protest against the Church Jesus founded in 33 AD. Otherwise, they would be Catholic. they just aren't 16th Century Prots. And David Koresh wasn't Mormon...

Thaddeus73 said:

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I know facts aren't your specialty, but mormons and its offshoots arent Protestants.

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Yes, they are. They too protest against the Church Jesus founded in 33 AD. Otherwise, they would be Catholic. they just aren't 16th Century Prots. And David Koresh wasn't Mormon...

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Even the last few Popes think you're taking it too far, Thad.

Thaddeus73 said:

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I know facts aren't your specialty, but mormons and its offshoots arent Protestants.

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Yes, they are. They too protest against the Church Jesus founded in 33 AD. Otherwise, they would be Catholic. they just aren't 16th Century Prots. And David Koresh wasn't Mormon...

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Mormon's aren't even Christians.

You are really dense. I clearly highlighted the mormons in the post in bold.