Do you believe what came about in nature is a sort of genetic engineering on God's part? Or could all of this have happened without God?
random mutations by definition are random.Martin Q. Blank said:
Maybe I worded the question incorrectly. Are the random mutations really random? Or are they specifically designed to occur like we do with genetic engineering?
Martin Q. Blank said:
Maybe I worded the question incorrectly. Are the random mutations really random? Or are they specifically designed to occur like we do with genetic engineering?
All of this could have happened with or without a god. This was and still is an unbelievable ongoing complex chain of events involving the forming of billions and billions of galaxies over billions of years. Earth is just a tiny speck in the universe like a grain of sand in the Sarah Desert.Martin Q. Blank said:
Do you believe what came about in nature is a sort of genetic engineering on God's part? Or could all of this have happened without God?
MidTnAg said:random mutations by definition are random.Martin Q. Blank said:
Maybe I worded the question incorrectly. Are the random mutations really random? Or are they specifically designed to occur like we do with genetic engineering?
MidTnAg said:All of this could have happened with or without a god. This was and still is an unbelievable ongoing complex chain of events involving the forming of billions and billions of galaxies over billions of years. Earth is just a tiny speck in the universe like a grain of sand in the Sarah Desert.Martin Q. Blank said:
Do you believe what came about in nature is a sort of genetic engineering on God's part? Or could all of this have happened without God?
AgLiving06 said:MidTnAg said:All of this could have happened with or without a god. This was and still is an unbelievable ongoing complex chain of events involving the forming of billions and billions of galaxies over billions of years. Earth is just a tiny speck in the universe like a grain of sand in the Sarah Desert.Martin Q. Blank said:
Do you believe what came about in nature is a sort of genetic engineering on God's part? Or could all of this have happened without God?
Only one of the two options answers the question of how something was created from nothing.
dargscisyhp said:AgLiving06 said:MidTnAg said:All of this could have happened with or without a god. This was and still is an unbelievable ongoing complex chain of events involving the forming of billions and billions of galaxies over billions of years. Earth is just a tiny speck in the universe like a grain of sand in the Sarah Desert.Martin Q. Blank said:
Do you believe what came about in nature is a sort of genetic engineering on God's part? Or could all of this have happened without God?
Only one of the two options answers the question of how something was created from nothing.
How something was created from something else*
Unless, of course, you're admitting God is nothing.
Checkmate Christians?
dargscisyhp said:
You choose to solve the problem of the infinite regress by cutting off the regression at some point. That's fine, but you're making assertions about the nature of the cutoff and dismissing the possibility of a cutoff of any other nature. If you weren't doing the latter then your objection to MidTnAg wouldn't make much sense.
dargscisyhp said:
What I'm objecting to is any claims you've made about the nature of the first cause, namely that it is God. I could conceive of other first causes.
You're making a lot of unproven assumptions.k2aggie07 said:
It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day we're talking about a closed system - our universe. There is simply no conceivable way a closed system could create itself. It requires an external agent. But, constraining the external agent with internal empirically derived labels (cause, create, etc) is irrational.
k2aggie07 said:
Oh? Do you have evidence against the conservation of mass and energy?
k2aggie07 said:
So what you're saying is maybe kinda sorta one time the law of conservation of energy didn't apply, but you're very confident that this exception - the one and only time we even think it might have happened - was an internal consequence?
k2aggie07 said:
So you agree that the system had a causal beginning at which point in time the law of conservation of mass and energy was violated - or perhaps didn't exist yet or apply - but you're unwilling to say that is by definition an open system?
A closed system has no mass or energy transferring in or out of the control volume. Our control volume is arbitrarily large, but it is still a control volume.
No, my question is: without God "guiding" or "selecting" the mutations, could they have occurred in the same way? Is it possible for nature to have occurred without God? Or does it need God to overcome the impossibility of evolving on its own?AgLiving06 said:
I think his question is whether something is ever truly random.