S - Planetary Orbits

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dds08
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2:28p, 10/13/17
AG
SO, I'm watching this documentary, "How the Universe Works" and the topic is "Extreme Orbits"


I'm wondering what keeps our planet earth, or rather all the planets around the sun, orbiting?

What is it that keeps the motion of this huge rock in space of our planet in constant motion? What keeps it moving? What keeps it, earth, on it's orbit just enough away that we all don't burn up, yet close enough that we all don't freeze? Why doesn't this mass of rock and dirt just stop and remain stationary? What gives our planet energy to rotate around the sun?

What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.

I'm a believer so I attribute all of this to the Lord, however I am curious about the scientific explanation.

Gravity cannot account for all of this.

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Amazing Moves
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2:35p, 10/13/17
You can also attribute it to god twiddling his thumbs.
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Sapper Redux
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2:36p, 10/13/17
Gravity absolutely can account for all of this. We've made a couple advancements in the theory since Sir Isaac was supposedly whacked with an apple.
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Ulrich
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2:36p, 10/13/17
Google gravity and tidal locking.
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Star Wars Memes Only
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2:38p, 10/13/17
Momentum and gravity and stuff....
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In reply to dds08 • 2:42p, 10/13/17
Quote:
I am curious about the scientific explanation.

Gravity cannot account for all of this.



:Facepalm:

This is the scientific explanation.
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dds08
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3:30p, 10/13/17
AG
If Gravity is the end all be all explanation; it doesn't seem too convincing, not with all the anomalies out there.

Moreover, it seems so many things came together and went well for our earth to support life that there must be something or someone at play.

The odds/chances of things working so well are astronomical, like rolling 12 dice and that 1 combination that you need to support life in the galaxy, we were fortunate enough to get.

Our conditions do occur in other places too, yes.
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Eliminatus
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In reply to dds08 • 4:00p, 10/13/17
AG
dds08 said:
If Gravity is the end all be all explanation; it doesn't seem too convincing, not with all the anomalies out there.

Moreover, it seems so many things came together and went well for our earth to support life that there must be something or someone at play.

The odds/chances of things working so well are astronomical, like rolling 12 dice and that 1 combination that you need to support life in the galaxy, we were fortunate enough to get.

Our conditions do occur in other places too, yes.
I always scratch my head at people citing the "astronomical odds" of Earth and it's conditions. Yes, the odds are astronomical. The universe is an astronomically huge body. By definition, the odds will strike true somewhere. It is not a leap of logic to think this way IMO.

And our current explanation of gravity is very convincing to me. However, that is my biases showing through. I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it. Which is not a criticism BTW. Simply an observation and something all of us do with what they believe.
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TexAgs91
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In reply to dds08 • 4:17p, 10/13/17
AG
dds08 said:
If Gravity is the end all be all explanation; it doesn't seem too convincing, not with all the anomalies out there.
Like what?
I identify as Ultra-MAGA
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to dds08 • 4:23p, 10/13/17
AG
We shot a 170 lb probe at 36,000 miles per hour into space and after 9.5 years came within 8,000 miles of a target that is smaller than our moon and 4.67 billion miles away from us. If we didn't understand the motions of the planets, the chances of this shot being successful would have been astronomical.
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TexAgs91
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In reply to dds08 • 4:23p, 10/13/17
AG
Quote:
Moreover, it seems so many things came together and went well for our earth to support life that there must be something or someone at play.

The odds/chances of things working so well are astronomical, like rolling 12 dice and that 1 combination that you need to support life in the galaxy, we were fortunate enough to get.

Our conditions do occur in other places too, yes.
The funny thing about the word "astronomical" is that it comes from describing the huge numbers that you'll find in astronomy. Like the number of planets out there. So with the astronomical odds of a planet being just right, plus the astronomical number of planets out there, there's a really good chance that there's going to be a planet (or I'd say many planets) that are just right for life.

You're not going to find yourself on a planet like Mercury where there's no atmosphere, and it's either extremely hot or extremely cold thinking "Damn the conditions for life really suck here". Because you'd never be living on a planet like that anyways. If there's a planet that just happens to have the proper conditions for life, the life there will by definition be thinking "wow this planet is really great for life". NS Sherlock

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PacifistAg
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 4:27p, 10/13/17
AG
kurt vonnegut said:
We shot a 170 lb probe at 36,000 miles per hour into space and after 9.5 years came within 8,000 miles of a target that is smaller than our moon and 4.67 billion miles away from us. If we didn't understand the motions of the planets, the chances of this shot being successful would have been astronomical.
BTW, I love space stuff and reading things like that just blow me away with how unbelievably awesome a venture that is.
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TexAgs91
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In reply to dds08 • 4:33p, 10/13/17
AG
dds08 said:
SO, I'm watching this documentary, "How the Universe Works" and the topic is "Extreme Orbits"


I'm wondering what keeps our planet earth, or rather all the planets around the sun, orbiting?

What is it that keeps the motion of this huge rock in space of our planet in constant motion? What keeps it moving? What keeps it, earth, on it's orbit just enough away that we all don't burn up, yet close enough that we all don't freeze? Why doesn't this mass of rock and dirt just stop and remain stationary? What gives our planet energy to rotate around the sun?

What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.

I'm a believer so I attribute all of this to the Lord, however I am curious about the scientific explanation.

Gravity cannot account for all of this.
An object in motion stays in motion unless acted on by an outside force.

Due to the previous line, it takes energy for an object such as the Earth to "stop moving" as you asked about above.

Gravity curves spacetime. This is a proven fact.

So the object in motion follows a path of least effort. In flat space, that's a straight line. In curved space that's a geodesic.

Given a certain velocity vector a certain distance from a massive body like the sun, the geodesic will curve completely around to itself and form an ellipse (an orbit) or some other conical cross-section (wizzing by or colliding with the object).
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4:52p, 10/13/17
Your initial question was how the planets stay in orbit. Talk about moving the goalposts
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4:57p, 10/13/17
Pro Sandy
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In reply to dds08 • 4:47a, 10/14/17
AG
dds08 said:


What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.

The moon does spin on its axis. It is in synchronous rotation though, with its orbit around the earth and its rotation around its axis nearly identical.

That was caused by the gravity of the earth. Over time, the earth's gravity has caused the rotation of the moon around its axis to slow so that one side now faces us all the time.
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dds08
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In reply to Pro Sandy • 6:37a, 10/14/17
AG
Pro Sandy said:
dds08 said:


What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.

The moon does spin on its axis. It is in synchronous rotation though, with its orbit around the earth and its rotation around its axis nearly identical.

That was caused by the gravity of the earth. Over time, the earth's gravity has caused the rotation of the moon around its axis to slow so that one side now faces us all the time.


What keeps the sun from having the same effect on our earth? Stopping our earth from spinning?
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Pro Sandy
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In reply to dds08 • 6:48a, 10/14/17
AG
dds08 said:
Pro Sandy said:
dds08 said:


What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.

The moon does spin on its axis. It is in synchronous rotation though, with its orbit around the earth and its rotation around its axis nearly identical.

That was caused by the gravity of the earth. Over time, the earth's gravity has caused the rotation of the moon around its axis to slow so that one side now faces us all the time.


What keeps the sun from having the same effect on our earth? Stopping our earth from spinning?
Nothing. But the moon is still spinning though. The moon rotates around its axis once every 27ish days.

The effect of gravity on our rotation around our axis is greater from the moon than the sun. The earth is slowing down in its rotation because of the gravitation pull with the moon. Our day lengthens by 15 to 25 millionths of a second every year.
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TexAgs91
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In reply to dds08 • 7:52a, 10/14/17
AG
dds08 said:
Pro Sandy said:
dds08 said:


What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.

The moon does spin on its axis. It is in synchronous rotation though, with its orbit around the earth and its rotation around its axis nearly identical.

That was caused by the gravity of the earth. Over time, the earth's gravity has caused the rotation of the moon around its axis to slow so that one side now faces us all the time.


What keeps the sun from having the same effect on our earth? Stopping our earth from spinning?
Good question.

The sun has been able to tidally lock Mercury because Mercury is much closer to the sun.

The moon is close to the earth, so the side nearer to earth experiences slightly more gravity from the earth than the far side. This means that the moon's more dense center is slightly offset towards the earth from the moon's true center. The result is that the moon's crust is thinner on the side facing the earth than it is on the moon's far side.

You can actually see the effect of this when comparing the near vs far side:


As large meteors strike the near side where the crust is thin, it's much easier for the moon's molten mantle to come through (when the moon was younger) and flood out into seas of magma on the near side. The magma then cooled and created these large smooth areas of darker basaltic material which we call maria. This doesn't happen on the far side where the crust is thicker.

p.s. the moon is not perfectly tidally locked to the earth

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dds08
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10:35a, 10/14/17
AG
If earth ceased to spin, would the night side be habitable? How about the day side?

Would the night side freeze and the day side burn up?
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TexAgs91
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In reply to dds08 • 2:41a, 10/15/17
AG
dds08 said:
If earth ceased to spin, would the night side be habitable? How about the day side?

Would the night side freeze and the day side burn up?
Assuming you don't mean a sudden stop, but say over a few years...
Here's a good article on that.
https://www.livescience.com/33944-world-stopped-turning.html

Quote:
Amazingly, Earth would literally change shape if it ceased to spin. Earth's rotation makes its midsection bulge; it is 26 miles farther around at the equator than it is from pole to pole. If the spinning stopped, that solid-Earth bulge wouldn't immediately relax, but the bulge of the oceans, which are much more fluid, would. "The oceans would shift from the equator toward the poles, leaving Earth's surface bone dry near the equator and swamped in miles of water at the poles,"

The atmosphere would shift in a similar fashion, he said, becoming thicker at the poles and thinner at the equator. Only Earthlings living at a sweet spot around the mid-latitudes would experience the right atmospheric pressure to survive the transition.

Quote:
Furthermore, constant sunshine would strike over whichever half of Earth ended up locked toward the sun. That side would be blisteringly hot; the vegetation would die off and the land would dry out and crack. The opposite hemisphere would sunk into permanent, icy darkness, and the land would resemble frozen tundra. "Humans would have to move to the transition area," said Rhett Allain, a physicist at the University of Southeastern Louisiana and blogger at Dot Physics.

We would be confined to a thin band of Earth along the hot-cold border, where the sun would always appear just above or just below the horizon. Here, the temperature would be moderate, but the ways in which weather and climate patterns on a non-spinning Earth would change are too unpredictable for the scientists to describe the scenery more fully. At any rate, land on the hot-cold border should be habitable enough for humans to make a go of it. "If you're on the sunny side but where the sun appears very near the horizon, you'll be able to grow crops, but you're not going to get quite as extreme solar heating there," Allain said. People could cross over to the barely dark side at night. "It would be warm enough there because there would still be some sunlight, because the atmosphere diffuses the sunlight (just like it's not pitch-black at night)."

Of course, humans couldn't live along the entire hot-cold border, but only in the stretches that contain an atmosphere that's suitable for breathing. "There are going to be four patches that have a decent mixture of the right atmospheric pressure and the right temperature: two in the Northern Hemisphere and two in the Southern Hemisphere," Bloomfield said.

The four human tribes would be permanently separated by the harsh conditions that stand between them. That and environmental differences between the patches would drive the evolution of four distinct humanoid species. They'd all need to be hardier and thicker-skinned than current humans, in order to deal with the greater influx of cosmic radiation they would experience in the absence of a geomagnetic field.
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AggieUSMC
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12:44p, 10/15/17
AG
Quote:
SO, I'm watching this documentary, "How the Universe Works" and the topic is "Extreme Orbits"


I'm wondering what keeps our planet earth, or rather all the planets around the sun, orbiting?


Momentum and gravity.

Quote:
What is it that keeps the motion of this huge rock in space of our planet in constant motion? What keeps it moving?


Newton's first law

Quote:
What keeps it, earth, on it's orbit just enough away that we all don't burn up, yet close enough that we all don't freeze? Why doesn't this mass of rock and dirt just stop and remain stationary? What gives our planet energy to rotate around the sun?


Again, Newton's first law

Quote:
What gives our planet the energy it needs to rotate on it's axis, spin? The moon doesn't spin.


The moon does spin. Just very slowly.

Quote:
I'm a believer so I attribute all of this to the Lord, however I am curious about the scientific explanation.

Gravity cannot account for all of this.


I'm a believer too but these are just bad arguments.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to TexAgs91 • 3:10p, 10/15/17
For those who don't visit here frequently:

https://what-if.xkcd.com

Be warned, you will get hooked.

(Oh, and this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's just an awesome website that answers absurd hypotheticals)
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 4:07p, 10/15/17
dds08
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In reply to Eliminatus • 5:16p, 10/15/17
AG
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
If Gravity is the end all be all explanation; it doesn't seem too convincing, not with all the anomalies out there.

Moreover, it seems so many things came together and went well for our earth to support life that there must be something or someone at play.

The odds/chances of things working so well are astronomical, like rolling 12 dice and that 1 combination that you need to support life in the galaxy, we were fortunate enough to get.

Our conditions do occur in other places too, yes.
I always scratch my head at people citing the "astronomical odds" of Earth and it's conditions. Yes, the odds are astronomical. The universe is an astronomically huge body. By definition, the odds will strike true somewhere. It is not a leap of logic to think this way IMO.

And our current explanation of gravity is very convincing to me. However, that is my biases showing through. I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it. Which is not a criticism BTW. Simply an observation and something all of us do with what they believe.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?
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TailG8TR
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5:36p, 10/15/17
AG
Always a source of amusement.

Whenever the premise is proposed - "Isn't it AMAZING that we are just far enough away from the sun to not burn up , yet close enough to not be a frozen mass...." "Imagine how hard life on Earth would be if...." "The way life is like on Earth with JUST the RIGHT conditions for us...."...yada yada yada

So silly......

Turn this premise COMPLETELY on its head !!! Life IS the WAY IT IS precisely BECAUSE we are at this point in our orbit around our star !

Life BECAME what it is and what we see all around us BECAUSE these are the very conditions in which we find ourselves !

Life is adapted to the conditions here and COULD NOT survive in other conditions precisely because THESE are the conditions to which life adapted ! Not the other way around !
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dds08
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In reply to TailG8TR • 5:40p, 10/15/17
AG
So what's your point Tailgate?

I have an idea, but I would like you to beat around the bush less and just be direct.
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Marco Esquandolas
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5:41p, 10/15/17
AG
the point is your arguments are terrible.
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Eliminatus
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In reply to dds08 • 5:49p, 10/15/17
AG
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
If Gravity is the end all be all explanation; it doesn't seem too convincing, not with all the anomalies out there.

Moreover, it seems so many things came together and went well for our earth to support life that there must be something or someone at play.

The odds/chances of things working so well are astronomical, like rolling 12 dice and that 1 combination that you need to support life in the galaxy, we were fortunate enough to get.

Our conditions do occur in other places too, yes.
I always scratch my head at people citing the "astronomical odds" of Earth and it's conditions. Yes, the odds are astronomical. The universe is an astronomically huge body. By definition, the odds will strike true somewhere. It is not a leap of logic to think this way IMO.

And our current explanation of gravity is very convincing to me. However, that is my biases showing through. I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it. Which is not a criticism BTW. Simply an observation and something all of us do with what they believe.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?


What?

I did not follow your jump at all there.
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Madman
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7:36p, 10/15/17
AG
NSFW Language

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dds08
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In reply to Eliminatus • 10:19p, 10/15/17
AG
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:

I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?


What?

I did not follow your jump at all there.
How does your Big Bang theory direct your life when it comes to interpersonal relationships with other people. Treating others.

Just curious.

If you don't want to share, feel free to throw me a, "mind my own business" and I'll leave you alone.
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Eliminatus
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In reply to dds08 • 6:32a, 10/16/17
AG
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:

I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?


What?

I did not follow your jump at all there.
How does your Big Bang theory direct your life when it comes to interpersonal relationships with other people. Treating others.

Just curious.

If you don't want to share, feel free to throw me a, "mind my own business" and I'll leave you alone.
Why would it direct my life and my ways towards others? My thoughts on BBT have zero interaction with how I treat people or other personal relationships. I don't see any real commonality between the two. It's why you lost me.
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dds08
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In reply to Eliminatus • 10:12a, 10/16/17
AG
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:

I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?


What?

I did not follow your jump at all there.
How does your Big Bang theory direct your life when it comes to interpersonal relationships with other people. Treating others.

Just curious.

If you don't want to share, feel free to throw me a, "mind my own business" and I'll leave you alone.
Why would it direct my life and my ways towards others? My thoughts on BBT have zero interaction with how I treat people or other personal relationships. I don't see any real commonality between the two. It's why you lost me.
Faith directs my knowledge about he solar system.

Faith directs my interpersonal relationships with others.

It seems faith is comprehensive and all encompassing.

If what you believe is big bang theory how come it can't help you when dealing with humans?
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Ulrich
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In reply to dds08 • 10:23a, 10/16/17
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:

I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?


What?

I did not follow your jump at all there.
How does your Big Bang theory direct your life when it comes to interpersonal relationships with other people. Treating others.

Just curious.

If you don't want to share, feel free to throw me a, "mind my own business" and I'll leave you alone.
Why would it direct my life and my ways towards others? My thoughts on BBT have zero interaction with how I treat people or other personal relationships. I don't see any real commonality between the two. It's why you lost me.
Faith directs my knowledge about he solar system.

Faith directs my interpersonal relationships with others.

It seems faith is comprehensive and all encompassing.

If what you believe is big bang theory how come it can't help you when dealing with humans?

You are equating your entire worldview to a relatively small part of what could be termed the scientific worldview. The BBT doesn't explain interpersonal relationships, but neither does every passage in the Bible. You're looking for the fields of sociology and psychology. They are certainly connected to physics via chemistry and biology, but it may not be obvious to the layperson.
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dds08
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In reply to Ulrich • 11:25a, 10/16/17
AG
Ulrich said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:
dds08 said:
Eliminatus said:

I was raised on a Big Bang Theory and am used to it. Hence, not hard for me to imagine this style of thinking. The odds are not indicative to me of any sort of higher power or hand. The reverse is true for you it seems. As a person of faith you will subconsciously war with the pure scientific theory in the main and look for ways to disprove/disbelief/doubt it.
Elimnatus logic breaks down when it comes to relationships.

How do you account for relationships with humans?


What?

I did not follow your jump at all there.
How does your Big Bang theory direct your life when it comes to interpersonal relationships with other people. Treating others.

Just curious.

If you don't want to share, feel free to throw me a, "mind my own business" and I'll leave you alone.
Why would it direct my life and my ways towards others? My thoughts on BBT have zero interaction with how I treat people or other personal relationships. I don't see any real commonality between the two. It's why you lost me.
Faith directs my knowledge about he solar system.

Faith directs my interpersonal relationships with others.

It seems faith is comprehensive and all encompassing.

If what you believe is big bang theory how come it can't help you when dealing with humans?

You are equating your entire worldview to a relatively small part of what could be termed the scientific worldview. The BBT doesn't explain interpersonal relationships, but neither does every passage in the Bible. You're looking for the fields of sociology and psychology. They are certainly connected to physics via chemistry and biology, but it may not be obvious to the layperson.
So you're speaking for Eliminatus? I assumed Eliminatus was a grown man and could do his own speaking for himself.
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