kurt vonnegut said:

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Number isn't relevant - just bustin' your chops.

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Oh I know. I really like your posts and I am a blowhard anyway. My excuse is God made me that way. I am just praying Bama does not wreak havoc on us,

AstroAg17 said:

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But how could you possibly think evolution would predict that people would be wired and act the same? What are you talking about when you refer to two hydrogen atoms?

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That was just an example of what I have heard from folks. Basically I am asking what started everything? Where did matter come from? I have had discussions like this over the years and no doctor, scientist, etc. has been able to tell me that.

Where did genes come from? DNA? And would not it make sense that if you have random evolution that at some point things would be replicated the same?

Where does DNA come from? What started it? Where did the first nucleic acid come from?

Where did the RNA come from?

I get it. Where did water come from? There has to be some kind of creation or none of the things science describes happens.

dermdoc said:

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I get it. Where did water come from? There has to be some kind of creation or none of the things science describes happens.

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None of this must lead to an uncreated creator

Dr. Watson said:

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dermdoc said:

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I get it. Where did water come from? There has to be some kind of creation or none of the things science describes happens.

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None of this must lead to an uncreated creator

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I agree. My point is that science does not rule out a Creator. And a lot of folks speak as if it does.

That's true science cannot attest to that at all broadly speaking. But science does cast enormous doubt on a number of popular creation beliefs. If yours are not in direct conflict with scientific or archaeological knowledge acquired it doesn't really have much to say.

So when you cut to the chase, you either believe in spontaneous creation from nothing or you believe in God as the Creator. There are no other options as far as I can tell. I have read the theories about "seeding" from meteors or whatever but then that begs the question, where did the meteors come from? And what created them?

The problem if you consider God as the Creator than a lot of other things enter the equation.

I was enjoying this thread before you completely killed it. I thought y'all took an oath or something about harm or some *****

Aggrad08 said:

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That's true science cannot attest to that at all broadly speaking. But science does cast enormous doubt on a number of popular creation beliefs. If yours are not in direct conflict with scientific or archaeological knowledge acquired it doesn't really have much to say.

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I am not a "Young creationist" guy as I feel there is way too much scientific evidence to dispute that. I am firmly convinced that a lot of folks do not even want to consider the possibility of a Creator because it brings a lot of other things. If there is a Creator, could the Bible actually be true? That is uncomfortable to some folks I know.

Carl Underguard said:

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I was enjoying this thread before you completely killed it. I thought y'all took an oath or something about harm or some *****

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Sorry I will watch baseball. Y'all have a good night. And BTHO bama!

This thread is derailed so I'll ask again: Where did God come from? And if it is ridiculous for the universe to come from nothing, why is it not similarly ridiculous for God to come from nothing? All you did was add an extra step.

If you want to have this discussion, create a thread so that others can respond to you.

dermdoc said:

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So when you cut to the chase, you either believe in spontaneous creation from nothing or you believe in God as the Creator. There are no other options as far as I can tell.

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The other option is "I don't know."

kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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So when you cut to the chase, you either believe in spontaneous creation from nothing or you believe in God as the Creator. There are no other options as far as I can tell.

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The other option is "I don't know."

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And I do not have a problem with that. I have a problem when the thought of a God driven creation is dismissed out of hand. Often rather viciously.

AstroAg17 said:

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Everyone should believe in spontaneous creation from nothing. It's an observable phenomenon.

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Where?

dermdoc said:

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I have met well over 500k patients and people in my life. None of them are the same. I would think if evolution and electric circuits or whatever were all we were about that would not be true. In fact, it is illogical.

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Are you trying to say that because we are not all the same, this implies we did not evolve? Evolution is Fake News? I assume I have misunderstood what you have stated.

dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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So when you cut to the chase, you either believe in spontaneous creation from nothing or you believe in God as the Creator. There are no other options as far as I can tell.

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The other option is "I don't know."

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And I do not have a problem with that. I have a problem when the thought of a God driven creation is dismissed out of hand. Often rather viciously.

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The vast majority of scientific evidence support the theories of evolution.

The only people who believe in creation ignore all the evidence to the contrary. They believe in creation because it supports their religious beliefs not because there is any scientific evidence to support it.

People tend to make up things to support their beliefs when they are contradictory of well-known evidence whether the beliefs are religious, political, personal, etc.

Creation is purely make-believe.

MidTnAg said:

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dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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So when you cut to the chase, you either believe in spontaneous creation from nothing or you believe in God as the Creator. There are no other options as far as I can tell.

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The other option is "I don't know."

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And I do not have a problem with that. I have a problem when the thought of a God driven creation is dismissed out of hand. Often rather viciously.

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The vast majority of scientific evidence support the theories of evolution.

The only people who believe in creation ignore all the evidence to the contrary. They believe in creation because it supports their religious beliefs not because there is any scientific evidence to support it.

People tend to make up things to support their beliefs when they are contradictory of well-known evidence whether the beliefs are religious, political, personal, etc.

Creation is purely make-believe.

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And so is any "scientific" hypothesis for what started everything. The truth is nobody knows. And that is why I do not understand the opposition to a Creator theory.

For me personally it's not opposition to the idea of a creator being possible, but an opposition to the idea of a creator being certain.

dargscisyhp said:

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For me personally it's not opposition to the idea of a creator being possible, but an opposition to the idea of a creator being certain.

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Fair enough. But what is wrong with mentioning that along with scientific hypotheses?

And I agree with evolution. In fact, Mendel was a devout Catholic and a man of faith. I just do not understand why the two can't co exist. It seems very compatible to me as a Christian.

It's not a scientific hypothesis, it's a metaphysical hypothesis. Therefore mentioning it is not appropriate in all venues. I'm fine if you want to mention it in church, not fine if you want to do it in a science class. Having a metaphysical hypothesis is fine, but the distinction ought to be made.

dargscisyhp said:

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It's not a scientific hypothesis, it's a metaphysical hypothesis. Therefore mentioning it is not appropriate in all venues. I'm fine if you want to mention it in church, not fine if you want to do it in a science class. Having a metaphysical hypothesis is fine, but the distinction ought to be made.

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Then make the distinction in science class. Why is there a problem with that? That is how I was taught growing up and nobody got all up in arms.

Why in the world would you teach metaphysics, or anything other than science, in a science class?

After more thought you are correct. As long as they can teach it elsewhere that is okay.

AstroAg17 said:

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MidTnAg said:

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AstroAg17 said:

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Everyone should believe in spontaneous creation from nothing. It's an observable phenomenon.

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Where?

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Everywhere. Virtual particles pop into and out of existence all the time. Nothing itself is an exciting place. Hawking radiation is evidence of spontaneous pair production.

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As I understand it, although there is evidence to support it, this is still theoretical.