While a human being will die from blood loss, that's not where "life" is. Pretty much every cell in the body is alive.

AstroAg17 said:

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TampaBayAg said:

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Given a zygotes possesses the somatic DNA information necessary for hematopoiesis upon conception, they're alive.

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That sounds like life is in the DNA then, not the blood, and I don't think that view is supported by the text. You also disagree with Martin, because he said an animal zygote isn't alive.

I don't like to get historical (because I don't know what I'm talking about), but didn't the cultures back then view the blood as a kind of life force? That's not rhetorical, I don't know. If they did, isn't it likely that this is an example of a then-popular misconception making its way into the Bible, demonstrating fallibility?

That's one possibility, another being that since biblical life is defined by the presence of blood, zygotes are not biblically alive. This seems like it would have a lot of contradictory implications about abortion and the like.

The final possibility is that the verse isn't meant literally, even though there are no obvious signs of allegory. Trees would get to be alive in this case, I hope. This would call into question the literal nature of other verses, as you guys like to point out to the old earth Christians.

Are there any other possibilities? It seems to me like that's all possible cases.

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Hello Astro,

I'm not sure I understand the etymology of "life" as it's used in all forms of the Hebrew. I'm not the one that standing on Leviticus 17:11 as the litmus for physical life. I believe life begins at conception (as mentioned due to the presence of completed DNA sequence), but I believe Leviticus 17:11 is speaking of spiritual life as it's clearly speaking of atonement and souls of men. You might be right in stating life is in the DNA, as I would certainly agree with that statement.

I don't understand the entire premise of Dr. Moore's work, but maybe he's trying to differentiate "life" in order to also establish resolution of life. While most creationists believe there was no carnivorous activity prior to the original sin, perhaps the author felt the need to reflect on why the herbivore diet doesn't "kill" anything. I've never felt the inclination to decipher inorganic spirituality of living plants,and how eating such doesn't propagate death.

I am not sure if I am a YEC or not. I do not know how old the universe is and don't deny that it could be much older than 6-10K What I do believe is this, God declared the world's perfection in Genesis 1:31 (which I believe would not include death) and death was the curse of the fall of mankind (Romans 5:12). I do not believe God would develop humanity through generations of death, which would be required should we embrace the theory of evolution.

Did you thumbs down your own post?

This thread is gold!

TampaBayAg said:

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Dr. Morris served on the University of Oklahoma faculty before joining the Institute for Creation Research in 1984. He received his Doctorate in Geological Engineering at the University of Oklahoma in 1980. Morris held the position of Professor of Geology before being appointed President in 1996. Morris has a B.S. in Civil Engineering from Virginia Tech (1969), an M.S., University of Oklahoma (1977), and a Ph.D., University of Oklahoma (1980) in Geological Engineering.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Morris#cite_note-4][4][/url]

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You don't see that as similar to going to a history professor for heart surgery?

Aggrad08 said:

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TampaBayAg said:

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Quote:

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Dr. Morris served on the University of Oklahoma faculty before joining the Institute for Creation Research in 1984. He received his Doctorate in Geological Engineering at the University of Oklahoma in 1980. Morris held the position of Professor of Geology before being appointed President in 1996. Morris has a B.S. in Civil Engineering from Virginia Tech (1969), an M.S., University of Oklahoma (1977), and a Ph.D., University of Oklahoma (1980) in Geological Engineering.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Morris#cite_note-4][4][/url]

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You don't see that as similar to going to a history professor for heart surgery?

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Are you seriously questioning Sapper's ability to perform a coronary artery bypass grafting?

TampaBayAg said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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TampaBayAg said:

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Quote:

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Dr. Morris served on the University of Oklahoma faculty before joining the Institute for Creation Research in 1984. He received his Doctorate in Geological Engineering at the University of Oklahoma in 1980. Morris held the position of Professor of Geology before being appointed President in 1996. Morris has a B.S. in Civil Engineering from Virginia Tech (1969), an M.S., University of Oklahoma (1977), and a Ph.D., University of Oklahoma (1980) in Geological Engineering.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Morris#cite_note-4][4][/url]

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You don't see that as similar to going to a history professor for heart surgery?

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Are you seriously questioning Sapper's ability to perform a coronary artery bypass grafting?

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I would

Dr. Watson said:

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TampaBayAg said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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TampaBayAg said:

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Quote:

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Dr. Morris served on the University of Oklahoma faculty before joining the Institute for Creation Research in 1984. He received his Doctorate in Geological Engineering at the University of Oklahoma in 1980. Morris held the position of Professor of Geology before being appointed President in 1996. Morris has a B.S. in Civil Engineering from Virginia Tech (1969), an M.S., University of Oklahoma (1977), and a Ph.D., University of Oklahoma (1980) in Geological Engineering.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Morris#cite_note-4][4][/url]

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You don't see that as similar to going to a history professor for heart surgery?

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Are you seriously questioning Sapper's ability to perform a coronary artery bypass grafting?

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I would

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Nonsense, ol' boy.

With all my heart

Leviticus isn't even the most relevant passages on God's assignment of life to blood. All the way back in Genesis 9 God spoke directly to Noah about it.

But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;

oldarmy1 said:

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Leviticus isn't even the most relevant passages on God's assignment of life to blood. All the way back in Genesis 9 God spoke directly to Noah about it.

But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;

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Ok. So is a zygote alive by that standard?

Didn't click the link, but Lev. 17:11 is not a scientific statement on the beginning of life. Is that how the author used it? It's use is in reference to expiation which is clear in the verse - "for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul". A good explanation is in Geerhardus Vos' Biblical Theology. I have a copy in front of me and will scan it in later.

chuckd said:

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Didn't click the link, but Lev. 17:11 is not a scientific statement on the beginning of life. Is that how the author used it? It's use is in reference to expiation which is clear in the verse - "for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul". A good explanation is in Geerhardus Vos' Biblical Theology. I have a copy in front of me and will scan it in later.

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Don't be scared. It's about a 30-second read. Fortunately they provide the citation to the article the guy wrote in 1991 that the blurb was pulled from. So, basically we are talking about some pretty cutting edge research on magical botany by a geological engineering PhD that was published in an article in a magazine ("Acts and Facts" (!!)) that is put out by ICR itself, the organization the author is director of.

What were you doing this weekend?

I was gonna go with ancient Kabbalah chess openings.