Question for Protestants- Going to Church on Sunday

7,736 Views | 55 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by texag_89
booboo91
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Question- Do you believe you need to go to church every Sunday? Is there a problem if you only go a few times a month? Is it a sin to knowingly miss church?

I am in bible study, and my fellow active Christian bothers (Protestants) were telling me it was really no big deal if they missed church, regularly. Last night my son was supposed to go to church with Protestant friends, and they did not go. This missing church from active Christians prompted my question.

My comments:
1) See 10 commandments (they are not 10 suggestions).
2) Church gets it right- need to Love God and part of this is worshipping him. We need to be like the early Christians and gather and break bread (community). Mortal sin in Catholic church when you knowingly miss church.
3) Agree with Agie95- Honor Sabbath/Lord's Day (we disagree on day of week, not on the need to take time and worship).
Frok
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It's not a requirement to go every Sunday if that's what your asking. It doesn't mean we think it's unimportant and blow it off.

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DrZ
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Yes I believe I need to go to church every Sunday. I actually need to go everyday. It is not an attendence issue I just need it. I can't speak for anyone else.
booboo91
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quote:
It's not a requirement to go every Sunday if that's what your asking. It doesn't mean we think it's unimportant and blow it off.


Do you need to go to church at all?
booboo91
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quote:
Yes I believe I need to go to church every Sunday. I actually need to go everyday. It is not an attendence issue I just need it. I can't speak for anyone else.
Your right, good answer. Just like the plants need the sun to grow. We are called to communion with others. We are called to Love God- to worship God.

Where 2 or 3 are, there I am. Why is it not just one person?

We are still called to follow 10 commandments- Yes Jesus simplified things- Love God and Love Neighbor- but when you expand upon this- you can't lie, cheat and steal, you need to still put God first. This requires worship.

So how do we think missing church regularly is ok? Answer- you can't!

booboo91
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This is not meant to be a Protestant wragging session (this applys to all Christians including- Catholics),

When you miss church because you are tired because you stayed out too late- that is Wrong. When you put your kids Sunday morning baseball game first instead of worshipping God- You are Wrong!

Nothing wrong with socializing, nothing wrong with kids baseball. The problem is when you make time for these things (false idols) instead of time for God.

Go to church! Worship!- Honor Sabbath/Lord's Day
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Frok
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quote:
quote:
It's not a requirement to go every Sunday if that's what your asking. It doesn't mean we think it's unimportant and blow it off.


Do you need to go to church at all?



When did I say or imply I don't need to go to church?

I only clarified that the protestant church does not equate faith to church attendance. You don't have strong faith simply because you go to church every week.
booboo91
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quote:



When did I say or imply I don't need to go to church?

I only clarified that the protestant church does not equate faith to church attendance. You don't have strong faith simply because you go to church every week.
So where do you draw the line? How do you reconcile honor the sabbath? When you know you are called to honor all the other 10 Commandments? Why would you just get a pass on this one commandment, to do it whenever you want to do it?

As Catholics we know where the line is, expectation is go to church, every Sunday and Holiday of Obligation- it is mortal sin (Snubbing nose at God, when we knowingly ignore what we are called to do). Most Catholics don't go to church (lots of inactive Catholics- only show up at Easter and Christmas). Again Catholics know where the line is, we just choose to ignore it.



Win At Life
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Why do you insist on committing adultery against your God, by bringing pagan god worship into bed with Him like the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun, pagan spring fertility festivals, and gathering on the day of the sun (catechism 2174) instead of God's declared days like Passover, Sabbath, and all the others He took the time to declare as HIS days in Leviticus 23?
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Does it count if I have car trouble and live stream the entire service?
booboo91
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quote:
Does it count if I have car trouble and live stream the entire service?
There are always exceptions to the rule, intent.

Just seems to me, with many good Protestants (who are active in their faith) they have very lax view that going to church is nice but not necessary. If they are busy with life, they will just skip church and they see nothing wrong with this.

The last part, is what I am questioning, based on what reason is it ok to regularly skip church?
booboo91
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quote:
Why do you insist on committing adultery against your God, by bringing pagan god worship into bed with Him like the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun, pagan spring fertility festivals, and gathering on the day of the sun (catechism 2174) instead of God's declared days like Passover, Sabbath, and all the others He took the time to declare as HIS days in Leviticus 23?
Jesus was game changer (He is Lord). He rose on Sunday, first day of the week. And that is when early chrisitans started meeting. If you have issue- take it up with Apostles.

From Catholic Answers " bible passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord's day, Sunday, instead.

CAtholic Answers- Sunday or Saturday?

Lots of verses from early fathers- worship is on Sunday

The Didache "But every Lord's day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

Ignatius of Antioch "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr""But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).


Solo Tetherball Champ
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Honestly, I say you dirty papists can remove the log from your own eye before you point out the speck in our eye!











booboo91
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quote:
Honestly, I say you dirty papists can remove the log from your own eye before you point out the speck in our eye!












I will be the first to say, many of my Catholic brothers (including myself), have this type of log, in our eyes.

Solo Tetherball Champ
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quote:
I will be the first to say, many of my Catholic brothers (including myself), have this type of log, in our eyes.


Does sacred tradition claim that those are logs? Because I must protest, sir, those are actually trees. You know, pre-logs. Or original sin, if you will.
BusterAg
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Christianity is not a set of rules that you need to follow. It is a way of life.

But, the meeting of the saints is very important. If you are regularly missing Sunday morning church, you need to examine your priorities. It should be one of the most important things that happens in your week.

In addition "keeping the Sabbath" is more than just Sunday morning attendance. God called us to have a time of rest and reflection every week. It is as much about not being too busy as it is about remembering God.
agie95
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quote:
quote:
Why do you insist on committing adultery against your God, by bringing pagan god worship into bed with Him like the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun, pagan spring fertility festivals, and gathering on the day of the sun (catechism 2174) instead of God's declared days like Passover, Sabbath, and all the others He took the time to declare as HIS days in Leviticus 23?
Jesus was game changer (He is Lord). He rose on Sunday, first day of the week. And that is when early chrisitans started meeting. If you have issue- take it up with Apostles.

From Catholic Answers " bible passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord's day, Sunday, instead.

CAtholic Answers- Sunday or Saturday?

Lots of verses from early fathers- worship is on Sunday

The Didache "But every Lord's day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

Ignatius of Antioch "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr""But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).



Boo boo, this is just wrong. The early Christians did not start meeting on Sunday. That is just false. Show one verse where the believers were meeting on the first day of the week for service instead of the Sabbath.

When you start looking at those who followed afterward, you cannot include them. They were all anti-semitic. G-d never declared nor any of His disciples, nor Paul, that one should start meeting on Sunday. G-d declared the Sabbath to be on the 7th day and man changed it to the 1st. Man should not and cannot change G-d's commandments.
chuckd
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Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Cor. 16:1

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Acts 20:7
Solo Tetherball Champ
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That first verse is simply talking about saving money on the first day of the week.
diehard03
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quote:
Question- Do you believe you need to go to church every Sunday? Is there a problem if you only go a few times a month? Is it a sin to knowingly miss church?
To me it's the wrong motivation. You need to go to church every Sunday, but not because it will be counted against you if you don't...it's that it's good for you if you do.

If you profess that Christ is Lord, why would you not want to go?
agie95
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Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Cor. 16:1

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Acts 20:7
As Solo Tetherball Champ mentioned, this is about collection of funds and nothing is said about a service.

But let's look a little deeper into the Greek here.

2. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


1. the word day is not even in the Greek. That is added by the tranlators.

2. The word translated as first is mia. It is translated as one 62 of the 79 times used. It is translated as first 8 times. The normal word used for first is proton like in Matthew 5:24. It is used 61 times and all but 5 are some form of first.

3. The word translated "of the week" is sabbaton. Sabbaton is used 68 times and 59 of them is translated as Sabbath or Sabbath day. 9 times as week.

It makes a whole lot more sense when you use the words with their typical translation.

2. Upon one Sabbath let every one of you lay by him in store, as G-d hath prospered him, that there be not gatherings when I come.

This is a much true unbiased translation of those two words. Before anyone provides it, Acts 20:7 is the same words, mia sabbaton.


BusterAg
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Here is the interlinear:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/20-7.htm

I think that the greek is mia ton sabbaton.

Other verses that contain that language:

Mark 16:1&2 - When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. Very early on the first day of the week (mia ton sabbaton), just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb.

Luke 24:1 - On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

John 20:1 - Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
agie95
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Depends on which scripts are being used. While researching this a while back a majority of the original scripts do not include the word ton. Do some yes, there are a lot of variations of the letters that exist...another reason not to consider them Scripture. Using Blue Letter Bible you can see some of the differences based on the translation used.

My point was, the translators very easily could have used the typical translation rather than the one used.

My other point was despite either translation, 1 Corinthians 16 nor Acts 20:7 state that this was a service. Acts 20:7 from a Hebrew perspective was most likely a Havdalah ceremony that happens at the end of every Shabbat at someone's home (typically) and it continued going. Quite typical, even for today when you have guests over.

booboo91
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quote:
quote:
To me it's the wrong motivation. You need to go to church every Sunday, but not because it will be counted against you if you don't...it's that it's good for you if you do.

If you profess that Christ is Lord, why would you not want to go?
We agree. The so called rules are out of love for us. They can be view as loving guard rails. God wants us to be happy. Meaning of Beatitudes (from Jesus) is from latin beatus, the word is for blessed, happy, or fortunate.

So by following God's " rules" loving guard rails, we can obtain happiness.

Even if we don't feel like obeying them (in this instance we are talking about 10 commandments) we still should. This means we should go to Church regularly, often, weekly.
booboo91
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quote:

Boo boo, this is just wrong. The early Christians did not start meeting on Sunday. That is just false. Show one verse where the believers were meeting on the first day of the week for service instead of the Sabbath.

When you start looking at those who followed afterward, you cannot include them. They were all anti-semitic. G-d never declared nor any of His disciples, nor Paul, that one should start meeting on Sunday. G-d declared the Sabbath to be on the 7th day and man changed it to the 1st. Man should not and cannot change G-d's commandments.
I presented bible verses, I presented early writings from early church father. Burden is on your side. See link- tell me where the church is wrong? Catholic Answers- Sabbath or Sunday You are mistaken if you think the change happened in 300s. It was from beginning.

As I see it, your antisemitic claim is a tactic to ignore the overwhelming evidence. Was there conflict between Jews and Early Christians, many who were Jewish? Answer- you bet- see Saul (Paul) who helped kill/ apprehend early Christians, who then turned Christian (was viewed as a traitor to Jewish faith) who was later stoned, himself. That would tend to cause friction.

You and I both know- that Jesus claiming to be God is considered Blasphemy. And the response from Jewish community would not be positive.
booboo91
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Agie95,

If you think about it, it makes sense.
1) What would happen if the early Christians went to the temple and other areas and proclaim Jesus was Lord, was God? Answer They would be persecuted by the Jews. It would probably be no different than if Mormons came into the Catholic church and started talking constantly about Brigham Young and their unique teachings. If they were interrupting things.

2) So it makes sense, they (Christians) would start meeting at different locations (Because they would not be welcome in Jewish circles) and different times. So they started meeting on the day of the Resurrection- which was Sunday- Lord's day.

Jesus was Game changer in so many ways. Jesus conquers death, he is the new temple, celebration is now on Lord's day. We see all of this in NT- in ACTS as the early church was unfolding. I think counsel of Jerusalem is great, because it shows how issues popped up and how the church, prayed and was guided by Holy Spirit and changes were made.
agie95
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quote:
quote:

Boo boo, this is just wrong. The early Christians did not start meeting on Sunday. That is just false. Show one verse where the believers were meeting on the first day of the week for service instead of the Sabbath.

When you start looking at those who followed afterward, you cannot include them. They were all anti-semitic. G-d never declared nor any of His disciples, nor Paul, that one should start meeting on Sunday. G-d declared the Sabbath to be on the 7th day and man changed it to the 1st. Man should not and cannot change G-d's commandments.
I presented bible verses, I presented early writings from early church father. Burden is on your side. See link- tell me where the church is wrong? Catholic Answers- Sabbath or Sunday You are mistaken if you think the change happened in 300s. It was from beginning.

As I see it, your antisemitic claim is a tactic to ignore the overwhelming evidence. Was there conflict between Jews and Early Christians, many who were Jewish? Answer- you bet- see Saul (Paul) who helped kill/ apprehend early Christians, who then turned Christian (was viewed as a traitor to Jewish faith) who was later stoned, himself. That would tend to cause friction.

You and I both know- that Jesus claiming to be God is considered Blasphemy. And the response from Jewish community would not be positive.
Yes you presented verses and I refuted a couple of them. You totally took them out of context. So lets go through them all. I believe the burden is on you, since following Torah was the way from the beginning and you are the one stating there is a change. Therefore the burden is actually on those who claim something changed.

Before I get to the verses I will address your other points. You claim that the Jewish community did not respond well to Yeshua claiming to be G-d. Yes, there were some, but you are ignoring the large number that accepted Him as the savior.

Acts 6:7 - The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

For the most part, the first 10-17 years after the death of Yeshua, Gentiles played a very small part. Not much is said about them converting. So to infer that Jews did not accept Yeshua is just ignorant of the texts.

Acts 20:7 - On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

Besides the mia sabbaton which should be translated as one Sabbath, this verse says they gathered to break bread...that means eat. From a Jewish context they were more than likely celebrating Havdalah the end of the Sabbath. So they got together to eat and Paul spoke. This does nothing to insinuate that they were meeting to worship on the first day of the week. Any attempt to state it is, is just ignoring the plain text.

1 Corinthians 16:2 - On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

Again, this verse uses mia sabbaton which should be translated one Sabbath. Besides that, this verse says absolutely nothing about getting together to worship. This verse says nothing about moving the Sabbath to Sunday.

Colossians 2:16-17 - Again you are ignoring the context of what Paul is stating. This whole chapter is about not following the teachings of men, which is exactly what the church does.

v8 - See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

So men where coming in and teaching the people to follow their gnostic behavior. Self-debasing themselves, worshiping angels (v18). If you participated in the Shabbat and the other festivals then you certainly were not self-debasing yourself. One enjoys good food, wine, and celebrate G-d's dress rehearsals (which 3 of them have yet to occur) for us. Paul was stating don't let those who are teaching the tradition of men to judge you for following the festivals.

Revelation 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the L-rd's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet

This has got to be the biggest joke in the world that people believe this is speaking about Sunday. For one, no where in Scripture is Sunday called the L-rd's day. No where. Inferring that this is speaking about Sunday has zero, zilch, nada support. The L-rd's day throughout Scripture is speaking about the day of the L-rd, which makes sense coming in Revelation which speaks about the end times.

Again, the burden is on you. Not one of the verses above state the Sabbath is moved to Sunday. Not of the verses above shows them in a "service". There are many verses that shows Paul speaking in synagogues to both Jews and Gentiles. There are verses that show Paul would come back the next Shabbat, not the next day, to speak again. Again, there is zero support that Paul (who said he followed Torah for he called himself a Pharisee) or anyone else taught to move the Sabbath.


agie95
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quote:
Agie95,

If you think about it, it makes sense.
1) What would happen if the early Christians went to the temple and other areas and proclaim Jesus was Lord, was God? Answer They would be persecuted by the Jews. It would probably be no different than if Mormons came into the Catholic church and started talking constantly about Brigham Young and their unique teachings. If they were interrupting things.

2) So it makes sense, they (Christians) would start meeting at different locations (Because they would not be welcome in Jewish circles) and different times. So they started meeting on the day of the Resurrection- which was Sunday- Lord's day.

Jesus was Game changer in so many ways. Jesus conquers death, he is the new temple, celebration is now on Lord's day. We see all of this in NT- in ACTS as the early church was unfolding. I think counsel of Jerusalem is great, because it shows how issues popped up and how the church, prayed and was guided by Holy Spirit and changes were made.
You are ignoring the texts. You have 0 proof that they started meeting on Sunday.

Acts 13:42-43 - As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath. Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the G-d-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of G-d.

Notice, Jews and the Gentiles following the Torah (G-d fearing proselytes) wanted them to come back the next Sabbath.

Acts 13:44 - The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the L-rd.

Again, nearly the whole city which was mostly Gentile came on the Sabbath

Acts 17:2 - And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Again, Paul going back each Sabbath to speak to them. Not the first day of the week.

Acts 18:4 - And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Paul reasoning with both Jews and Greeks in the synagogue on Sabbath.

To state that Gentiles did not go to synagogues on Sunday to worship. They went on the Sabbath. Your Acts 15 reference is laughable for v21 says -

For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

They expected the Gentiles to be in the synagogues on the Sabbath. It is crystal clear. Nothing changed until Gentiles came and changed it...most Gentiles despised the Jews and started moving away from anything Jewish. You really need to read some books on the history during that time and the next couple hundred years. The move away from Jewish ways had nothing to do with the teachings but b/c of their hatred of Jews. Two good books are Constantine's Sword (written by a Catholic) and A Convenient Hatred: The History of Antisemitism.

[url=https://www.amazon.com/Convenient-Hatred-History-Antisemitism/dp/0981954383/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465910362&sr=1-1&keywords=antisemitism][/url]
agie95
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Regarding your church fathers here are a few things they have said:

Justin Martyr - in speaking to a Jew he said: The Scriptures are not yours but ours.

Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.)
We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart.
The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other menas I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark.

Ignatius of Antioch said in, To The Magnesians, VIII, 10. - he instructs his readers to oppose all things Jewish. He claimed that the Hebrew prophets had lived according to Jesus Christ and not according to Jewish law.


Iraneous Bishop of Lyon declared teh Jews are disinherited from the grace of G-d.

Tertullen wrote - G-d rejected the Jews in favor of the Christians

Eusebius wrote wrote the promises of the Scriptures were for Christians and not the Jews but the curses were for the Jews the church was the true Israel

I have also highlighted before (3 John 1) how one leader of a congregation who was Gentile stopped allowing Jews in the congregation including John who walked with Yeshua. Can you imagine?







Zobel
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quote:
I have also highlighted before (3 John 1) how one leader of a congregation who was Gentile stopped allowing Jews in the congregation including John who walked with Yeshua. Can you imagine?
Where do you find the evidence that Diotrophes was opposing St John for his being Jewish, or any other Jew?
agie95
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booboo91, I provided a response to each of your verses...which none say what you say they say.
swimmerbabe11
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quote:
Question- Do you believe you need to go to church every Sunday? Is there a problem if you only go a few times a month? Is it a sin to knowingly miss church?


I need to, yes. Do I succeed? no. Do I repent? Yes.
Is it a sin? 1st commandment violation, sure.

Anything we do that is short of God's perfect love is sinful.
swimmerbabe11
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I go to church for absolution and for the Sacraments first and foremost, then for the teaching and fellowship.

As Ambrose says: Because I always sin, I am always bound to take the medicine
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