Nobody wants to admit that with certainty most of humanity does not make it into heaven.

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I wish the christians had responded to my questions. You would think since they created heaven/hell that they would have at least some general estimates.

Do 80% of people born enter heaven?
Do 20% of people born enter heaven?

Any ideas?

Not one person responded with numbers/ratios

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634% are in heaven while only 387% are in hell. Those numbers round enough for you?

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You are mocking me for asking questions about christianity?

If you ever asked an honest question about Christianity, there would be little reason to mock you...

However, you have asked a question that no one can answer. We simply do not know the mind of God (if you believe in Him) or the final destination of the human soul (if you believe in one). Why you are looking for a validation of numbers from Christians who have absolutely no tangible idea what occurs beyond this life is perplexing...

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I accept your concession

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I believe you know the Bible better than many professing Christians.

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Low standard is low. The Easter/Christmas only crowd is quite large.

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The stats are pretty crazy, of self identified Catholics, only 55% believe in the real presence of Christ in the eucharist, and only 30% attend mass at least once a week.

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And why should they believe? When the clergy hands them out like Pez to those who are publicly in violation of Catholic doctrine. I give you Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, and John Kerry.

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It's a big problem. I'm a huge fan of Cardinal Burke, and I wish that being barred from the eucharist and/or excommunication was used more frequently in light of such public scandal.

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If you ever asked an honest question about Christianity, there would be little reason to mock you...

However, you have asked a question that no one can answer. We simply do not know the mind of God (if you believe in Him) or the final destination of the human soul (if you believe in one). Why you are looking for a validation of numbers from Christians who have absolutely no tangible idea what occurs beyond this life is perplexing...

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How is this not an honest question?

I could definitely see a child being brought up in a christian household asking this question.

How many people go to heaven? Does everyone else go to hell?

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If you ever asked an honest question about Christianity, there would be little reason to mock you...

However, you have asked a question that no one can answer. We simply do not know the mind of God (if you believe in Him) or the final destination of the human soul (if you believe in one). Why you are looking for a validation of numbers from Christians who have absolutely no tangible idea what occurs beyond this life is perplexing...

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How is this not an honest question?

I could definitely see a child being brought up in a christian household asking this question.

How many people go to heaven? Does everyone else go to hell?

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The fact that you need a numerical answer or a percent is mind-numbing. Nobody knows, I don't know, you don't know. If I had to guess....it wouldn't be accurate, because I'm not privy to the inner workings of the human soul.

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If you ever asked an honest question about Christianity, there would be little reason to mock you...

However, you have asked a question that no one can answer. We simply do not know the mind of God (if you believe in Him) or the final destination of the human soul (if you believe in one). Why you are looking for a validation of numbers from Christians who have absolutely no tangible idea what occurs beyond this life is perplexing...

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How is this not an honest question?

I could definitely see a child being brought up in a christian household asking this question.

How many people go to heaven? Does everyone else go to hell?

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The fact that you need a numerical answer or a percent is mind-numbing. Nobody knows, I don't know, you don't know. If I had to guess....it wouldn't be accurate, because I'm not privy to the inner workings of the human soul.

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Estimates I'm finding tell us that approximately 108 billion humans have lived.

Would it be safe to say that almost all those people were in heaven? 95% or more?

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If you ever asked an honest question about Christianity, there would be little reason to mock you...

However, you have asked a question that no one can answer. We simply do not know the mind of God (if you believe in Him) or the final destination of the human soul (if you believe in one). Why you are looking for a validation of numbers from Christians who have absolutely no tangible idea what occurs beyond this life is perplexing...

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How is this not an honest question?

I could definitely see a child being brought up in a christian household asking this question.

How many people go to heaven? Does everyone else go to hell?

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The fact that you need a numerical answer or a percent is mind-numbing. Nobody knows, I don't know, you don't know. If I had to guess....it wouldn't be accurate, because I'm not privy to the inner workings of the human soul.

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Estimates I'm finding tell us that approximately 108 billion humans have lived.

Would it be safe to say that almost all those people were in heaven? 95% or more?

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No, it wouldn't be safe to say that, we have zero knowledge of what percentage of people get to heaven, none, zilch.

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If you ever asked an honest question about Christianity, there would be little reason to mock you...

However, you have asked a question that no one can answer. We simply do not know the mind of God (if you believe in Him) or the final destination of the human soul (if you believe in one). Why you are looking for a validation of numbers from Christians who have absolutely no tangible idea what occurs beyond this life is perplexing...

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How is this not an honest question?

I could definitely see a child being brought up in a christian household asking this question.

How many people go to heaven? Does everyone else go to hell?

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The fact that you need a numerical answer or a percent is mind-numbing. Nobody knows, I don't know, you don't know. If I had to guess....it wouldn't be accurate, because I'm not privy to the inner workings of the human soul.

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Estimates I'm finding tell us that approximately 108 billion humans have lived.

Would it be safe to say that almost all those people were in heaven? 95% or more?

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No, it wouldn't be safe to say that, we have zero knowledge of what percentage of people get to heaven, none, zilch.

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Mathew 7: 13&14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Luke 14: 23&24
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

All of a sudden you throw the bible out as a source when it has been your only source all along? These verses are making me think that less than half of everyone ever born made it into heaven...

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Mathew 7: 13&14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Luke 14: 23&24
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

All of a sudden you throw the bible out as a source when it has been your only source all along? These verses are making me think that less than half of everyone ever born made it into heaven...

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What is your point? Where am I arguing that it's not possible that less than 50% of the people make it in to heaven? Didn't you just throw some 95% number out there? It's entirely possible that less than 50% of the people make it in to heaven.

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Mathew 7: 13&14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Luke 14: 23&24
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

All of a sudden you throw the bible out as a source when it has been your only source all along? These verses are making me think that less than half of everyone ever born made it into heaven...

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What is your point? Where am I arguing that it's not possible that less than 50% of the people make it in to heaven? Didn't you just throw some 95% number out there? It's entirely possible that less than 50% of the people make it in to heaven.

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You said you had absolutely no idea when in fact there are multiple verses on the topic. This is a topic discussed in the bible. Someone asked Jesus, "are only a few people going to be saved?

I have no idea why the christians on this board are pretending like this isn't a fairly normal religious topic when in fact it is mentioned in the bible and there are a ton of articles about it online. I don't need specific numbers down to the decimal point. You saying that less than 50% of people ever made it into heaven would mean that over 50 billion people are burning in hell for all eternity.

http://www.gotquestions.org/narrow-gate.html

The gate is narrow. Without a doubt jesus claimed the majority of humanity would not be in heaven.

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Mathew 7: 13&14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Luke 14: 23&24
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

All of a sudden you throw the bible out as a source when it has been your only source all along? These verses are making me think that less than half of everyone ever born made it into heaven...

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What is your point? Where am I arguing that it's not possible that less than 50% of the people make it in to heaven? Didn't you just throw some 95% number out there? It's entirely possible that less than 50% of the people make it in to heaven.
You said you had absolutely no idea when in fact there are multiple verses on the topic. This is a topic discussed in the bible. Someone asked Jesus, "are only a few people going to be saved?

I have no idea why the christians on this board are pretending like this isn't a fairly normal religious topic when in fact it is mentioned in the bible and there are a ton of articles about it online. I don't need specific numbers down to the decimal point. You saying that less than 50% of people ever made it into heaven would mean that over 50 billion people are burning in hell for all eternity.

http://www.gotquestions.org/narrow-gate.html

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I have absolutely no idea what percentage of people are in heaven, in numbers or percentages, neither does anyone. Anybody who tells you that they know how many people are in heaven, in percentile or absolute numberical form, is lying.

What did that link say that you had a question about?

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The stats are pretty crazy, of self identified Catholics, only 55% believe in the real presence of Christ in the eucharist, and only 30% attend mass at least once a week.

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And why should they believe? When the clergy hands them out like Pez to those who are publicly in violation of Catholic doctrine. I give you Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, and John Kerry.

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It's a big problem. I'm a huge fan of Cardinal Burke, and I wish that being barred from the eucharist and/or excommunication was used more frequently in light of such public scandal.

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I have a 2-year old son, so I often find myself walking the halls during Mass. This past Sunday I passed by the chapel where Adoration occurs and was emotionally struck by the dedication of those who sit in Adoration. I get the church's attempt to be universal, but while I am simply disgusted by public communion of known dissidents, those in Adoration are truly betrayed...

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I have a 2-year old son, so I often find myself walking the halls during Mass. This past Sunday I passed by the chapel where Adoration occurs and was emotionally struck by the dedication of those who sit in Adoration. I get the church's attempt to be universal, but while I am simply disgusted by public communion of known dissidents, those in Adoration are truly betrayed...

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I understand the church's stance on this and agree with it in 90% of situations but I think Pelosi and others go way too far. I understand the church claiming only God can know the depth of their sin, and their conscience etc etc, but when it's such a public sin that is so gravely held in the Church, and in natural law I think you can make an exception and I actually personally believe full excommunication is warranted, but I'm just a guy.

I'm a huge proponent of eucharistic adoration. I swear everytime I'm in front of the eucharist it feels like i'm sitting in front of a heat lamp. I often wish they'd let me do my work in there, I could sit in there for hours.

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The gate is narrow. Without a doubt jesus claimed the majority of humanity would not be in heaven.

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Sobering truth.

Excerpts from the late Reformed Baptist pastor A.W. Pink:

http://gfmanchester.com/the-straight-gate-and-the-narrow-way-a-w-pink

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It is right here that the testing point is reached. To the natural man, it is much easier and far more pleasant to indulge the flesh and follow our worldly propensities. The Broad Road, where the flesh is indulged, is easy, smooth, and attractive! But it ends in destruction! Though the narrow way leads to eternal life, only FEW are walking on it. Rememberit was the Lord Jesus Himself who said that.

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Multitudes make a profession and claim to be saved, but their lives give no evidence that they are "strangers and pilgrims" here on earth, and that their "treasure" is in heaven. They are afraid of being thought narrow and strict. Satan has deceived themthey imagine that they can get to heaven by an easier route than by denying self, taking up their cross daily, and following Christ!

There are multitudes of 'religionists' who are attempting to combine the two "ways," making the best of both worlds and serving two masters. They wish to gratify self in time and enjoy the happiness of heaven in eternity. Crowds of nominal Christians are deluding themselves into believing that they can do so, but they are terribly deceived!

The reason why so few will enter eternal life is because the multitudes are not seeking it in the way of God's appointing. None seek it aright except those who pass through the narrow gate and who, despite many discouragements and falls, continue to press forward along the narrow way."

~A. W. Pink

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LHoward,
But you left out key verse- all things are possible with God. You can't forget God's mercy and forgiveness.

Matt: 19 25-26 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and said, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."

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LHoward,
But you left out key verse- all things are possible with God. You can't forget God's mercy and forgiveness.

Matt: 19 25-26 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and said, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."

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It's strange you point out this verse in the context of what was being said. Have you abandoned your wealth to go build treasures in heaven? Have you left it all behind to go follow Him?

Jesus had just said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. What do you suppose He meant by that?

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The gate is narrow. Without a doubt jesus claimed the majority of humanity would not be in heaven.

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Did he mean that his gate is narrow? Or the way of righteousness is narrow? The gate that he is talking about is that gate that leads to life? Is that with or without the mercy of Jesus's death?

Later, he talks about a yolk that is easy and a burden that is light.

How can you say without any doubt that this means that <50% of people will not make it to heaven?

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It's strange you point out this verse in the context of what was being said. Have you abandoned your wealth to go build treasures in heaven? Have you left it all behind to go follow Him?

Jesus had just said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. What do you suppose He meant by that?

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There are men in this world that are wealthy, humble and do follow Jesus's teachings.

Not many, though.

Everyone wants to be rich, so the people who are rich are most likely the ones who put this as their first priority. Not usually a good start.

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It's strange you point out this verse in the context of what was being said. Have you abandoned your wealth to go build treasures in heaven? Have you left it all behind to go follow Him?

Jesus had just said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. What do you suppose He meant by that?

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There are men in this world that are wealthy, humble and do follow Jesus's teachings.

Not many, though.

Everyone wants to be rich, so the people who are rich are most likely the ones who put this as their first priority. Not usually a good start.

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I firmly disagree with that, I believe my work (opus) is God's (dei). I believe that through my labors, and in doing things to the best of my ability that it gives glory to God. Honest labor, done to the best of one's ability is inherently good and sanctifying. Excellent at one's work, and receiving the fair compensation thereof, isn't not putting God first.

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I firmly disagree with that, I believe my work (opus) is God's (dei). I believe that through my labors, and in doing things to the best of my ability that it gives glory to God. Honest labor, done to the best of one's ability is inherently good and sanctifying. Excellent at one's work, and receiving the fair compensation thereof, isn't not putting God first.

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I will certainly agree, it is way more convenient to not be sola scriptura.

Jesus meant something else when he said "leave all your possessions and come follow me"?

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I firmly disagree with that, I believe my work (opus) is God's (dei). I believe that through my labors, and in doing things to the best of my ability that it gives glory to God. Honest labor, done to the best of one's ability is inherently good and sanctifying. Excellent at one's work, and receiving the fair compensation thereof, isn't not putting God first.

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I will certainly agree, it is way more convenient to not be sola scriptura.

Jesus meant something else when he said "leave all your possessions and come follow me"?

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Indeed, just as he meant we're not supposed to cut our hand off when we sin.

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LHoward,
But you left out key verse- all things are possible with God. You can't forget God's mercy and forgiveness.

Matt: 19 25-26 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and said, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "For human beings this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."

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It's strange you point out this verse in the context of what was being said. Have you abandoned your wealth to go build treasures in heaven? Have you left it all behind to go follow Him?

Jesus had just said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. What do you suppose He meant by that?

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Woody,

1) Nothing wrong with wealth, just as there is nothing wrong with Wine, Food, Sex, Power. It is the intent with how we use and pursue the money. Very common theme in bible- intent. What is in your heart- why do you do what you do. Is it all about ME, ME, ME or about loving God and Loving Neighbor.

2) The problem with money is it can cause lead us into sin/problems. The more you have the more distractions (when our focus should be on God) Also idle hands is the work of the Devil.

3) I like this bible verse about King David and how he fell into sin, due to his power and wealth, instead of being with his men out in the field, he was hanging back at the palace, taking a nap .

2 Samuel 11 1-2 At the turn of the year, when kings go out on campaign, David sent out Joab along with his officers and the army of Israel, and they ravaged the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. David, however, remained in Jerusalem. One evening David rose from his SIESTA and strolled about on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing, who was very beautiful.

I was simply pointing out you were using a sound bite and taking it out of context when you say "with God anything is possible" like you did.

Going back to Martin's thread on what is actually true... do you think Jesus actually spoke these words? If Jesus said leave it all behind and go follow Him, what do you suppose He meant by that?

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I firmly disagree with that, I believe my work (opus) is God's (dei). I believe that through my labors, and in doing things to the best of my ability that it gives glory to God. Honest labor, done to the best of one's ability is inherently good and sanctifying. Excellent at one's work, and receiving the fair compensation thereof, isn't not putting God first.

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I will certainly agree, it is way more convenient to not be sola scriptura.

Jesus meant something else when he said "leave all your possessions and come follow me"?

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Indeed, just as he meant we're not supposed to cut our hand off when we sin.

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You sure about this? Why do you hold those Friars in such high regard, then? Don't they exemplify this exact precept?

When I read that passage, I don't see much to indicate he isn't saying what he means. Those who do so will be rewarded in heaven 100 fold, right?

That is an impossible question for any of us to know. The only percentages we should be concerned about are that 100% of us will die, 100% of us will end up either in Heaven or separated from God forever in Hell, and so you better be 100% sure of where your eternal destination will be and you need to be 100% comfortable with that decision. If you're not, it's never too late to decide differently.

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Indeed, just as he meant we're not supposed to cut our hand off when we sin.

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You sure about this? Why do you hold those Friars in such high regard, then? Don't they exemplify this exact precept?

When I read that passage, I don't see much to indicate he isn't saying what he means. Those who do so will be rewarded in heaven 100 fold, right?

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As I said in that thread, I hold the friars in such high regard, because they don't see issues they see individuals. Where I might shun a drug addict because he brought his problems on himself, they see a person who needs help for whatever reason.

As for the "rich man" parable, he's talking about those who love money for money's sake. St.John Chrystosoam says in commentary about the passage "What he spoke was not condemning riches in themselves, but those who were enslaved by them" (Homilies on Matthew 63)"

It must be somewhat comforting to be a Catholic and never have to think for yourself.

Do you think those were words Jesus actually uttered, or are the gospels just sort of "based" on truth in your opinion -- by which I suppose I should say "in the Church's opinion"?

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It must be somewhat comforting to be a Catholic and never have to think for yourself.

Do you think those were words Jesus actually uttered, or are the gospels just sort of "based" on truth in your opinion -- by which I suppose I should say "in the Church's opinion"?

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Why do you view at as not thinking for yourself? The bible was compiled hundreds of years ago, I have to consult a study guide when I read freaking CS Lewis, because I don't get the references from his 1930s British point of view.

I think when they preface with "Jesus says" they were likely words he said, whether they were paraphrased or not isn't relevant.

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Why do you view at as not thinking for yourself?

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You don't explain why you view His words to mean something other than what He said. You simply point to Catechism. I'm not saying it's wrong necessarily, just that it's convenient.

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I think when they preface with "Jesus says" they were likely words he said, whether they were paraphrased or not isn't relevant

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So when Jesus says what he says in this passage, why does he mean something other than what he said? Did he not mean for you to give your possessions to the poor and follow him? Did he not say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven?

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100% of us will end up either in Heaven or separated from God forever in Hell,

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Well that's a far cry from 100 percent also. But it's very strange to me that the god of the universe would put man's life as such a high stakes game without clearly describing what gets you to heaven or hell. Or purgatory for that matter.

It's curious that the OT prophets didn't even know about hell and the debate between the sadducees and Pharasees was about whether there was any afterlife at all.

With the whole of the OT at their back the is still wasn't clear.

Jesus said "No Man comes to the Father except through Me" and that is pretty clear on how to get to Heaven and avoid Hell. It's only through Jesus.

The Pharisees and Sadducees were always missing the mark on what exactly it took to get to Heaven (Jesus) so I don't think I would take comfort in knowing that they weren't sure in an afterlife or not.

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The gate is narrow. Without a doubt jesus claimed the majority of humanity would not be in heaven.

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Sobering truth.

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Not a truth. A stunning belief.