How do you interpret the Bible? It seems like every time someone wants to defend their religious stance on social issues today-they use the Bible as a literal meaning. But when someone wants to defend evolution, the big bang, dinosaurs, etc, then Christians say the Bible was written as a metaphor.

First of all the Bible is not a single volume, it is a collection of works written over the course of a number of centuries. Some are history, some our poetry, some are prophecy, some are believers accounts of Jesus teachings and his passion and some are letters written to those struggling early Christian communities. Knowing the genre of the book being read certainly helps in understanding the ideas the author is trying to convey. As for the Big Bang, Evolution, etc., I am certain none of the books were written with the intent in being a science text.

How Catholics Understand the Bible

Unfortunately, some people interpret the Bible in a way to support their prejudices.

I grew up in a very segregated society. When the civil rights movement started, many claimed that that the Bible says blacks are inferior to whites, and thus, should not mix. We got past that.

Later, they claimed the Bible says the races should not intermarry. We got past that.

Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

Hopefully, we will eventually get past all the prejudices against minorities of any type. Afterall, the whites will soon be a minority group and I do not want any of my future offspring to be discriminated against.

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Unfortunately, some people interpret the Bible in a way to support their prejudices.

I grew up in a very segregated society. When the civil rights movement started, many claimed that that the Bible says blacks are inferior to whites, and thus, should not mix. We got past that.

Later, they claimed the Bible says the races should not intermarry. We got past that.

Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

Hopefully, we will eventually get past all the prejudices against minorities of any type. Afterall, the whites will soon be a minority group and I do not want any of my future offspring to be discriminated against.

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Silly post.

The Bible is pretty direct about homosexuality being a sin.

Racism, not so much.

Of course, with comments like the above, you are just baiting people.

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How do you interpret the Bible? It seems like every time someone wants to defend their religious stance on social issues today-they use the Bible as a literal meaning. But when someone wants to defend evolution, the big bang, dinosaurs, etc, then Christians say the Bible was written as a metaphor.

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Application of some common sense usually does the trick.

You can get into the Greek or the Aramaic if you want some additional background, and learning more about the context of this history in which the book that you are reading was written in is also helpful.

Finally, to answer your question directly, if you can't have the discernment to understand that stories about the foundation of the earth are more likely to be metaphorical than, for instance, a history of the Acts of the apostles after Jesus died, then you are not really trying very hard to answer your own question.

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Unfortunately, some people interpret the Bible in a way to support their prejudices.

I grew up in a very segregated society. When the civil rights movement started, many claimed that that the Bible says blacks are inferior to whites, and thus, should not mix. We got past that.

Later, they claimed the Bible says the races should not intermarry. We got past that.

Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

Hopefully, we will eventually get past all the prejudices against minorities of any type. Afterall, the whites will soon be a minority group and I do not want any of my future offspring to be discriminated against.

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There are a lot of things written by a lot of people that others have used to defend racism. You can see arguments that the writings of Tocqueville, John Locke and other philosophers that were the inspiration for a lot of this countries founding ideas used as a defense for racism.

That doesn't mean John Locke is full of ****. It means that racists are.

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First of all the Bible is not a single volume, it is a collection of works written over the course of a number of centuries. Some are history, some our poetry, some are prophecy, some are believers accounts of Jesus teachings and his passion and some are letters written to those struggling early Christian communities. Knowing the genre of the book being read certainly helps in understanding the ideas the author is trying to convey. As for the Big Bang, Evolution, etc., I am certain none of the books were written with the intent in being a science text.

How Catholics Understand the Bible

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this

Context. And frankly if one actually studies the Bible it isn't nearly as difficult to understand/distinguish the writer(s) context as many would have you believe.

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Context. And frankly if one actually studies the Bible it isn't nearly as difficult to understand/distinguish the writer(s) context as many would have you believe.

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Ah... so YOU"RE the guy who has the Bible figured out. Finally. Care to enlighten us?

Woody,

The bible is such a wonderful book (library) it is simple to follow (especially when you read NT and understand how the story unfolds) and yet so deep with all the symbolism, it shows all chararistics of mankind (both good and bad), it has different authors and styles as it covers a story and history covering roughly 2000 years.

On the simple side, the Bible repeats the common themes over and over:
1) There is a God
2) He calls us to Love- Love God and others. Our focus should not be on us- ME, ME, ME.
3) When we mess up as we all do, we are to repent and turn back to him (our loving father- like the prodigal son)
4) If we don't turn to God (Jesus), there are consequences for our actions. Consequences of SIn and eventually judgement.

On the complex side- God made us all different and unique, with different gifts, weaknesses, from different cultures and needs, so #2 our call to Love. Is not always so simple to do in a dynamic ever changing world. There are multiple ways to Love.

The concept is simple, just Love, but to actually do it, not so easy. That is why we need God, that is why we need to pray everyday. It is a continual process until we die.

I'm glad to see you back, booboo but I still don't buy what you're selling.

The Bible is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

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Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

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God's word has a lot to say about marriage and has specific instructions for husbands and wives. Christ uses heterosexual marriage in a parable and his uniting with the church at the end of the age is metaphorically described as a heterosexual marriage. It's obvious that God has laid out instructions and has sanctified his ordinance of natural marriage. If you're claiming God is much more inclusive to expand marriage beyond one man + one women, you'll need to provide scripture to support this.

The truth is, you can take any subject and make it about as complex as you want it to be.

The themes are absolutely very simple.

Love God
Love other people
Love yourself (ie, take care of yourself)
Do good things
Don't be greedy
Help other people

We spend all of our time arguing about the exact moment a person is or is not saved, the eternal consequence of people we have never met, the acceptable and non acceptable practices of worship on Sunday morning, etc.

However, if we spent half as much time trying to do the stuff on the list above as we did arguing about bright lines in the details, the world would be a better place. And if you ask me, this was one of Jesus's most important messages.

Woody,

Yep, I changed jobs back in December, it is a start up, high risk high reward. I took a break from TexAgs to focus 100% on sales and marketing.

The bible is deep, it covers a lot of things, a lot difficult situations. So I agree not ever book in the bible is simple to follow, especially without understanding the background of why the book was written and to the intended audience.

But there are books that are simple to follow and understand. Read the Gospels. We all agree what Jesus calls us to do. Not difficult to understand. That is reason I believe the nonbeliever never mention the NT or pick a fight with Jesus. We all agree what he says about selfless love is correct.

There is a reason it says Jesus speaks with authority we all know what he says is true.

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Woody,

Yep, I changed jobs back in December, it is a start up, high risk high reward. I took a break from TexAgs to focus 100% on sales and marketing.

The bible is deep, it covers a lot of things, a lot difficult situations. So I agree not ever book in the bible is simple to follow, especially without understanding the background of why the book was written and to the intended audience.

But there are books that are simple to follow and understand. Read the Gospels. We all agree what Jesus calls us to do. Not difficult to understand. That is reason I believe the nonbeliever never mention the NT or pick a fight with Jesus. We all agree what he says about selfless love is correct.

There is a reason it says Jesus speaks with authority we all know what he says is true.

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Best of luck in your new endeavour!

There are PARTS of Jesus' message I agree with. However, I don't agree with the following:

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When Jesus heard this, He said to him, "One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." Luke 18:22

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"The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43"Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 13:41-43

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Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.Matthew 16:24

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"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.27"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.Luke 14:26-27

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"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;Matthew 25:40-41

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If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:16

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30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.Matthew 12:30

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"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. John 12:25

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He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

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I'm sure there is more, but to act as if even non-believers agree with all that Jesus said is incorrect.

Woody,

I don't have time to go into all of it right now. Many seemed to have a common theme:

1) Short answer Jesus (God) is the Truth, way and life. So if you don't believe in the Truth you then must believe in a Lie. There is no middle ground with Jesus. You accept the way of life- Love or you accept the way of death- selfish, ME, ME, Lie cheat and steal. Read Didache- early catechism on the 2 ways Didache

2) Jesus asks to give yourself away, to help and serve others. Spiritual truth- the more you give the more you receive (it seems counterintuitive). But as a parent it is easier to grasp.

3) If you look at Jesus on Cross- he forgoes everything the world says we need (Power, Money, Honor, Pleasure). He has none of that on the cross, and he performs the greatest act of love. Not only is he dying for others, he is dying for his enemies.

The bible is so Awesome! Adder- if you choose the way of Death- there are consequences- it is not good.

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Unfortunately, some people interpret the Bible in a way to support their prejudices.

I grew up in a very segregated society. When the civil rights movement started, many claimed that that the Bible says blacks are inferior to whites, and thus, should not mix. We got past that.

Later, they claimed the Bible says the races should not intermarry. We got past that.

Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

Hopefully, we will eventually get past all the prejudices against minorities of any type. Afterall, the whites will soon be a minority group and I do not want any of my future offspring to be discriminated against.

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Silly post.

The Bible is pretty direct about homosexuality being a sin.

Racism, not so much.

Of course, with comments like the above, you are just baiting people.

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But at the same time I've noticed Christians cherry-picking from the Bible. For example, Leviticus 18:22 is a classic favorite among the anti-SSM crowd, but they conveniently ignore all the goofy rules in the rest of the book, citing them as "old Mosaic laws" that Jesus did away with.

And even if the Bible can't be used to defend racism, people did it anyway. And the arguments used back then to stop blacks from marrying whites were pretty similar to the arguments against SSM today. No, you aren't racist if you're against SSM. I'm just saying that the Bible has been perverted to justify a lot of really nasty things.

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Adder- if you choose the way of Death- there are consequences- it is not good.

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Thank goodness this is just an assertion people make, and that there is no evidence that this is indeed the case.

It's the very thing I dislike most about Jesus' message -- eternal consequences for finite crimes. What a wicked arrangement.

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Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

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God's word has a lot to say about marriage and has specific instructions for husbands and wives. Christ uses heterosexual marriage in a parable and his uniting with the church at the end of the age is metaphorically described as a heterosexual marriage. It's obvious that God has laid out instructions and has sanctified his ordinance of natural marriage. If you're claiming God is much more inclusive to expand marriage beyond one man + one women, you'll need to provide scripture to support this.

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I certainly do not claim to know what God wants. God apparently said a lot of things in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that aren't being followed today by most Christians. It seems sorting through those old laws and picking which we are to follow today and which we are not is what most on the anti-SSM bandwagon decide to do. Ironic how the ones that are no longer important are the ones they themselves regularly break.

But I do know that Jesus told us to love and serve one another.

I dont think preventing an entire group of people from enjoying the benefits you enjoy (from marriage, in this case) fulfills what Christ instructed us to do.
Using the bible to spread hate (or at least injustice) for those different from yourself, under the guise of God's love seems, to me, a very hypocritical and un-Christ like take on the whole matter.

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It's the very thing I dislike most about Jesus' message -- eternal consequences for finite crimes. What a wicked arrangement.

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Woody,

It is not wicked, there are consequences for everything we do! If a teenage girls gets pregnant, there are consequences. If a husband tears apart the family by his actions there are consequences for the entire family. If someone becomes hooked on drugs- there are consequences. When nations go to war, millions are affected, there are consequences.

When we die, we will be judged by God (who knows everything) and he will set things right. But there is also God's mercy, love and forgiveness. See the story of the prodigal son who runs off and acts like a fool, there were consequences but he repented and turned back to his loving father. There is a reason Jesus said for us to call God- Daddy, Abba, Father.

So Woody, it is not difficult, turn toward the God, choose the way of life, otherwise there may be Hell to pay. Note you should be scared if you are on the wrong path.

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I certainly do not claim to know what God wants. God apparently said a lot of things in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that aren't being followed today by most Christians. It seems sorting through those old laws and picking which we are to follow today and which we are not is what most on the anti-SSM bandwagon decide to do. Ironic how the ones that are no longer important are the ones they themselves regularly break.

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Seems is the operative word. Perhaps people are doing something other than treating these passages as a buffet. In the Catholic world, the distinguishing factor or system (which has fallen from favor in modern times) is the natural law.

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If a teenage girls gets pregnant, there are consequences. If a husband tears apart the family by his actions there are consequences for the entire family. If someone becomes hooked on drugs- there are consequences. When nations go to war, millions are affected, there are consequences.

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In all these cases there are finite punishments for finite crimes.

I will not back away from my statement that eternal consequences for finite crimes is wicked. You don't have to agree, but that's what I believe.

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So Woody, it is not difficult, turn toward the God, choose the way of life, otherwise there may be Hell to pay. Note you should be scared if you are on the wrong path.

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Coercion through fear is a very effective tool for manipulation. So is coercion through bribes. It's strange how Christianity offers both the ultimate carrot and the ultimate stick, no?

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So Woody, it is not difficult, turn toward the God, choose the way of life, otherwise there may be Hell to pay. Note you should be scared if you are on the wrong path.

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Coercion through fear is a very effective tool for manipulation. So is coercion through bribes. It's strange how Christianity offers both the ultimate carrot and the ultimate stick, no?

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In all these cases there are finite punishments for finite crimes.

I will not back away from my statement that eternal consequences for finite crimes is wicked. You don't have to agree, but that's what I believe.

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Woody, Yes there is judgement, yes there are consequences, but no one. No one knows how God judges. Name one person in Hell? Answer- that is between God and the person being judged. Hell may be filled with people, it may be empty. We can't factor in God's love and grace.

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Coercion through fear is a very effective tool for manipulation. So is coercion through bribes. It's strange how Christianity offers both the ultimate carrot and the ultimate stick, no?

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How is this different from anything else in life Carrot and Stick? There are countless examples in life of us getting the carrot or stick based on our actions. Go to school/college and get a better career opportunities (Carrot), drop out, bad things (stick). Parents to their children punish and reward based on behavior. Wives to their husbands do the same thing.

I can tell you that no matter how God judges no one wants the Stick, we don't want the stick in life and you won't want the stick in the afterlife. Not that difficult to understand. You can stick your head in the sand and say it isn't fair, but it doesn't change things.

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If a teenage girls gets pregnant, there are consequences. If a husband tears apart the family by his actions there are consequences for the entire family. If someone becomes hooked on drugs- there are consequences. When nations go to war, millions are affected, there are consequences.

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In all these cases there are finite punishments for finite crimes.

I will not back away from my statement that eternal consequences for finite crimes is wicked. You don't have to agree, but that's what I believe.

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First,
Consequences are, by their very nature eternal. It is impossible to re-write history.
Teen pregnancy is not a punishment. It is an eternal consequence of a decision (if you believe at all in the eternal persistence of some sort of consciousness). The fact that consequences for actions are eternal is not very well described as wicked. It is better described as the nature of time and chronology.

Second,
There is a difference between eternal consequence and eternal torment (which is where I think you were going). I'm not even sure that the Biblical Greek supports an interpretation of eternal torment. There is a difference between a final judgement and eternal torment. The latter is one possibility, but not definitive, IMO.

Third,
Your position assumes that it was God's decision that consequences for actions are eternal, and he chooses to punish people who make bad decisions. No consideration is given that eternal consequence may just be the way things are, and that Jesus is a way to save people (collectively and individually) from the pain of that reality.

Finally,
I would say that it is in general difficult to get people to consider how their actions will impact society and the future of the human race, even if only at the margin. But, if everyone made those considerations,
the world would be a lot better place. Jesus's warnings about how your actions today will impact eternity are vivid and horrifying. I doubt that they are 100% literal. I do not think that there is likely a literal lake made of fire (how does this even exist? weird physics going on there) that people will be thrown into. But they are stern and purposefully terrifying warnings. But, I do not think it necessary to read malice into those warnings.

BusterAg,

What is scary about Hell, is the nice guy, the one who shows us how to Love- Jesus is the one who states over and over the severe consequences. The concept of hell, eternal fires is from Jesus. It is better that person was never born! (Wow). Then there is the urgency from Jesus to repent now! Don't wait.

I think we Christians (including myself) do a disservice when we downplay the consequences (the stick).

I think we are all made different, and we respond differently, I know my kids do, some of us respond more to the stick (which is real in my house) than they do to the carrot. I tend to focus on God's love, but others may respond to the stick.

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Unfortunately, some people interpret the Bible in a way to support their prejudices.

I grew up in a very segregated society. When the civil rights movement started, many claimed that that the Bible says blacks are inferior to whites, and thus, should not mix. We got past that.

Later, they claimed the Bible says the races should not intermarry. We got past that.

Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

Hopefully, we will eventually get past all the prejudices against minorities of any type. Afterall, the whites will soon be a minority group and I do not want any of my future offspring to be discriminated against.

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There are a lot of things written by a lot of people that others have used to defend racism. You can see arguments that the writings of Tocqueville, John Locke and other philosophers that were the inspiration for a lot of this countries founding ideas used as a defense for racism.

That doesn't mean John Locke is full of ****. It means that racists are.

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Locke wrote the laws to the colony of Carolina. He wrote their first laws allowing and governing lifetime African slavery.

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Unfortunately, some people interpret the Bible in a way to support their prejudices.

I grew up in a very segregated society. When the civil rights movement started, many claimed that that the Bible says blacks are inferior to whites, and thus, should not mix. We got past that.

Later, they claimed the Bible says the races should not intermarry. We got past that.

Later they claimed the Bible says that people of the same sex cannot marry and it ok to descriminate them. We are finally starting to get past this, albeit slowly.

Hopefully, we will eventually get past all the prejudices against minorities of any type. Afterall, the whites will soon be a minority group and I do not want any of my future offspring to be discriminated against.

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There are a lot of things written by a lot of people that others have used to defend racism. You can see arguments that the writings of Tocqueville, John Locke and other philosophers that were the inspiration for a lot of this countries founding ideas used as a defense for racism.

That doesn't mean John Locke is full of ****. It means that racists are.

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Locke wrote the laws to the colony of Carolina. He wrote their first laws allowing and governing lifetime African slavery.

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He also owned shares in two slave trading companies.

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Woody, Yes there is judgement, yes there are consequences, but no one. No one knows how God judges. Name one person in Hell? Answer- that is between God and the person being judged. Hell may be filled with people, it may be empty. We can't factor in God's love and grace.

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You don't know that and neither does anyone else.

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How is this different from anything else in life Carrot and Stick? There are countless examples in life of us getting the carrot or stick based on our actions. Go to school/college and get a better career opportunities (Carrot), drop out, bad things (stick). Parents to their children punish and reward based on behavior. Wives to their husbands do the same thing.

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That's my point... the carrot and stick arrangement is very much a man-made one.

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I can tell you that no matter how God judges no one wants the Stick, we don't want the stick in life and you won't want the stick in the afterlife. Not that difficult to understand. You can stick your head in the sand and say it isn't fair, but it doesn't change things.

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It has nothing to do with fair or unfair. It has to do with baseless assertions. You simply believe there are eternal consequences / rewards. You may be right, but unless you have some hidden repository of evidence of the afterlife that you've been withholding from us all this time, you have no basis to make such assertions.

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First,
Consequences are, by their very nature eternal. It is impossible to re-write history.
Teen pregnancy is not a punishment. It is an eternal consequence of a decision (if you believe at all in the eternal persistence of some sort of consciousness). The fact that consequences for actions are eternal is not very well described as wicked. It is better described as the nature of time and chronology.

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Eternal is a far different thing than consequences have long-lasting reverberations. The universe will continue to expand and stars will continue to form and die, but over trillions and trillions of years, the universe will die a cold death. How miniscule those trillions upon trillions of years will be in comparison to eternity.

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Second,
There is a difference between eternal consequence and eternal torment (which is where I think you were going). I'm not even sure that the Biblical Greek supports an interpretation of eternal torment. There is a difference between a final judgement and eternal torment. The latter is one possibility, but not definitive, IMO.

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You are correct there is a difference between eternal consequences and eternal torment. I consider both to be wicked, but certainly an eternity of being mildly punished is preferable to an eternity of burning in the fires of hell.

I appreciate the annihilistic perspective (because it does solve a large problem with the idea of a good God), but I just don't see any real evidence that is what the Bible is speaking to. It is a NT concept, but if hell isn't real then where did Jesus go that was so bad? Why does he speak of lakes of fire and gnashing of teeth?

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Third,
Your position assumes that it was God's decision that consequences for actions are eternal, and he chooses to punish people who make bad decisions. No consideration is given that eternal consequence may just be the way things are, and that Jesus is a way to save people (collectively and individually) from the pain of that reality.

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This would violate omnipotence, yes? If God doesn't make the rules, who does?

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Finally,
I would say that it is in general difficult to get people to consider how their actions will impact society and the future of the human race, even if only at the margin. But, if everyone made those considerations,
the world would be a lot better place. Jesus's warnings about how your actions today will impact eternity are vivid and horrifying. I doubt that they are 100% literal. I do not think that there is likely a literal lake made of fire (how does this even exist? weird physics going on there) that people will be thrown into. But they are stern and purposefully terrifying warnings. But, I do not think it necessary to read malice into those warnings.

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I believe people should absolutely realize their actions affect the here-and-now as well as humanity's future. We just shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we KNOW the future will work itself out according to God's plan. We need to live our lives working to improve the only lives we actually do know* we have for ourselves and others.

*assuming matter is real and the appearance of our universe isn't just a product of my consciousness.

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I believe people should absolutely realize their actions affect the here-and-now as well as humanity's future. We just shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we KNOW the future will work itself out according to God's plan. We need to live our lives working to improve the only lives we actually do know* we have for ourselves and others.

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Woody,

Just curious, it sounds good we are improving lives of ourselves and others. What about the others, who choose the way of Death- ME, Me, ME, who lie cheat and steal? What happens to folks who live like Stalin or Fidel Castor who, take, kill, ignore there fellow man and live to a ripe old age in power? What happens to them? Do they just get away with being selfish and taking their entire life? Just curious what you thought?

As I see it, you say carrot and stick is a man made concept. I don't think so. I think it is a God made concept, just like we all have a conscience, knowing right and wrong, it has being written on our heart. Hence from beginning of time, this concept of the Golden Rule has been around various cultures. And at some point in time, in this life or the next , God will set things right. Good discussion.

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Just curious, it sounds good we are improving lives of ourselves and others. What about the others, who choose the way of Death- ME, Me, ME, who lie cheat and steal? What happens to folks who live like Stalin or Fidel Castor who, take, kill, ignore there fellow man and live to a ripe old age in power? What happens to them? Do they just get away with being selfish and taking their entire life? Just curious what you thought?

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I don't pretend to KNOW the answer to that question. I have no evidence for what happens after we die. I see no reason to assume it will be any different than how it felt prior to being born, but certainly I cannot prove this.

People who choose to behave in the way you've described oftentimes live lives of wild dissatisfaction. However, it wouldn't surprise me if plenty of psychopaths have lived their lives enjoying the harm they inflict on others without any significant consequence.

I understand your revulsion towards the idea that there are no post-death consequences within our own consciousness for crimes committed while alive. I hate it too. I also hate that I won't get to live forever in bliss. However, my feelings toward these ideas are irrelevant. These ideas appear to me to be creations of the human mind. Once the mind ceases to be, so do any personal consequences for crimes committed prior to death. I can see why this might lead some towards nihilism, but to me it gives me reason to fight to make my time on Earth and the time of others better than it otherwise would have been.

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Just curious, it sounds good we are improving lives of ourselves and others. What about the others, who choose the way of Death- ME, Me, ME, who lie cheat and steal? What happens to folks who live like Stalin or Fidel Castor who, take, kill, ignore there fellow man and live to a ripe old age in power? What happens to them? Do they just get away with being selfish and taking their entire life? Just curious what you thought?

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I don't pretend to KNOW the answer to that question. I have no evidence for what happens after we die. I see no reason to assume it will be any different than how it felt prior to being born, but certainly I cannot prove this.

People who choose to behave in the way you've described oftentimes live lives of wild dissatisfaction. However, it wouldn't surprise me if plenty of psychopaths have lived their lives enjoying the harm they inflict on others without any significant consequence.

I understand your revulsion towards the idea that there are no post-death consequences within our own consciousness for crimes committed while alive. I hate it too. I also hate that I won't get to live forever in bliss. However, my feelings toward these ideas are irrelevant. These ideas appear to me to be creations of the human mind. Once the mind ceases to be, so do any personal consequences for crimes committed prior to death. I can see why this might lead some towards nihilism, but to me it gives me reason to fight to make my time on Earth and the time of others better than it otherwise would have been.

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If you truly do not believe that that there is any type of eternal consciousness, then Jesus lying about that in order to get people to accept his message would truly be pretty wicked.

But, you always pose the issue the other way around, that the reason you don't believe in Jesus is because his version of what happens during eternal consciousness.

Maybe in your mind, these two are related.

However, in my opinion, concluding that there is no eternal consciousness, and then concluding that Jesus if full of crap at least makes logical sense.

Concluding that Jesus if full of crap because of the implications of justice in his discussions about eternity, and then concluding that therefore there is no eternal consciousness, is a little more presumptuous.

quote:

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I understand your revulsion towards the idea that there are no post-death consequences within our own consciousness for crimes committed while alive. I hate it too. I also hate that I won't get to live forever in bliss. However, my feelings toward these ideas are irrelevant. These ideas appear to me to be creations of the human mind. Once the mind ceases to be, so do any personal consequences for crimes committed prior to death. I can see why this might lead some towards nihilism, but to me it gives me reason to fight to make my time on Earth and the time of others better than it otherwise would have been.

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BTW, Christian values can be a pretty good roadmap for this.