Ryan Anderson on Marriage

23,645 Views | 276 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by SapperAg
P.C. Principal
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In reply to Seamaster • 1:04p, 1/18/15
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On top of that, the evidence points to equal outcomes for children raised by same sex couples as well as opposite sex couples.
Completely false.
The studies disagree with you, seamaster. Anti-SSM folks love to focus on the bad same-sex parents, while conveniently ignoring the bad opposite sex parents.

The fact of the matter is, good parents are good parents, regardless of sex.

Now, if you're talking about how having a strong father/mother figure in one's life affects children later in life, I agree. But I think that's a separate discussion.
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P.C. Principal
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In reply to senorchipotle • 1:09p, 1/18/15
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I think its the result of easy divorce which hurt the image of marriage to such a degree where people largely don't view marriage is important anymore which allows men to abandon the women they knock up with little more than a shrug from society. We used to have this bedrock institution called marriage and the state recognized the societal benefits that marriage had on all of us so the state gave married people certain benefits. That institution has been chipped away at since the sexual revolution to where it will soon be meaningless.


Things were so great 50 years ago that women were popping pills, becoming raging alcoholics, and going into clinical depression. They were so happy that they decided they'd had enough of being treated like ignorant children, and not having s say in their own lives. Must've been a great time for guys like you.

And what do you know about the breakdown of the black family? It has nothing to do with "no fault divorce." Are you kidding me?
1) mass desegregation with no integration into society 2) Vietnam 3) the great society 4) drug trafficking 5) gangs... These are the reasons why the black family has eroded, it's got absolutely nothjng to do with no fault divorce. You should read a book, something that isn't the bible or written by a Fox News contributor.
Add terrible sex education to that. Many impoverished families have uneducated children who don't know jack squat about safe sex, but the religious right is so dead set on abstinence-only, a worthless, ineffective solution that just leads to more out-of-wedlock pregnancies.

Trying to argue that SSM is somehow responsible for all the afore-mentioned problems is ridiculous, and is a total hail mary.
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haircut
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1:12p, 1/18/15
AG
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Seamaster
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1:12p, 1/18/15
AG
A number of leading professional associations have asserted that there are "no differences" between children raised by homosexuals and those raised by heterosexuals. But the research in this area is quite preliminary; most of the studies are done by advocates and most suffer from serious methodological problems. Sociologist Steven Nock of the University of Virginia, who is agnostic on the issue of same-sex civil marriage, offered this review of the literature on gay parenting as an expert witness for a Canadian court considering legalization of same-sex civil marriage:
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Through this analysis I draw my conclusions that 1) all of the articles I reviewed contained at least one fatal flaw of design or execution; and 2) not a single one of those studies was conducted according to general accepted standards of scientific research.
This is not exactly the kind of social scientific evidence you would want to launch a major family experiment.Steven Nock, affidavit to the Ontario Superior Court of Justice regarding Hedy Halpern et al. University of Virginia Sociology Department (2001).

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=if04g01
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Beer Baron
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1:19p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
Ultimately, it will be the last shoe to drop in the destruction of marriage in our culture and healthy marriage culture is a bedrock to society that is necessary for the healthy development of children who become citizens. The other 'shoes' being easy divorce and easy remarriage.
How is this another "shoe" to do this? How does my being married make your marriage less meaningful? If your gay neighbors, brothers/sisters, and children marrying somehow has some impact on your marriage, you don't have much of one to begin with, if you ask me.


quote:
Its going to **** up a generation of Americans.
I'm not going to let you just throw this out there without backing it up somehow. How, specifically will my being married **** up a generation of Americans. I want specific examples, not vague generalities. Will my marriage cause people to go insane? Will it make them shoot up movie theaters? Will they develop eating disorders, or start listening to Nickelback? What specific things will start happening to non-gay people once I am legally married in every state?

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Next polygamy will be legal, because, why not? Then other 'arrangements.'
If you're going to play the slippery slope card, you've got to go look back up that slope instead of only looking down it. This slope started sloping when the government got involved in regulating marriage relationships. It really tilted downward when it started letting the races intermarry.

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Marriage will lose all meaning.
Again, please provide specific examples of how this is so. How specifically will your marriage be less meaningful, to the point of being meaningLESS? If you suddenly became a widower, and 10 years later wanted to re-marry someone you loved, are you really telling me that the fact that I'm existing out in the world somewhere, married to a man, would make you not want to marry her anymore? Again, I submit that says a lot more about you as a person than it does about the role of marriage in society and law.


quote:
Eventually gay people and polygamists will sue churches for the 'right' to get married in those churches and freedom of religion will be trampled upon.
Gay marriage has been legal in parts of this country for over a decade. It still has not happened. Not one time.


quote:
The birth rate of our culture will drop precipitously like it has in other parts of the world.
This is the most ridiculous argument out of a vast pile of ridiculous arguments. How does me being married result in someone else deciding not to have children? Again, be specific. How do these two things correlate, in any way, much less to such a degree as to cause a "precipitous" decline in birth rates?

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The marriage rate will drop, not increase. Fewer hetero couples will bother with marriage too because marriage won't have any real meaning any more.
Again, how so? Be specific.

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To name a few. How about this Beer Baron....I bet you a steak dinner with beers in Houston that if gay marriage is the law of the land, that 10 years later the marriage rate will have dropped by at least 15%. So, 10 years from now. Steak dinner and beers if I am wrong.
I'll take my steak and beers right now, actually. We've already got an example of this in Massachusetts, where marriage equality has existed for almost 12 years.

CDC marriage rates by state

PM me for an email address where you can send me a gift card to Eddie V's or Sullivans.
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Aggrad08
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1:26p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
quote:

eventually gay people and polygamists will sue churches for the 'right' to get married in those churches and freedom of religion will be trampled upon.
Gay marriage has been legal in parts of this country for over a decade. It still has not happened. Not one time.
Remember when the government rid itself of anti-miscegenation laws and then forced churches to marry blacks and whites? Me neither.
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Marco Esquandolas
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1:31p, 1/18/15
AG
The irony of Seamaster complaining about a lack of sound research evidence to support his opponents' arguments is profound and hilarious when his whole debating strategy is to trot out a litany of unsupported speculative slippery slope assertions.
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P.C. Principal
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1:36p, 1/18/15
Pretty much all anti-SSM arguments boil down to:

1) it will destroy my marriage
2) think of the children
3) churches will be forced to marry them. Religious freedom infringed
4) people will want to marry dogs, horses, and toasters. And more slippery slope nonsense.
5) I don't want gays changing MY fancy word
6) lets get the government out of marriage (but I still don't want gays using my fancy word)
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Seamaster
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1:38p, 1/18/15
AG
Beer Baron.

I predicted what I believe will result when marriage is further eroded in our culture. We'll have to wait and see whether I am right or wrong.

I might be on the wrong side of the way history is going but that does not bother me any more than being on the wrong side of history when it comes to the unborn or the death penalty. I am thankful that I am on the right side of nature.

If we're talking about 'irony' I find it ironic that so many of you just want those opposed to the destruction of marriage to simply shut up. I thought your crowd was supposed to be the open minded and tolerant bunch?
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Woody2006
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In reply to Beer Baron • 1:40p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
I'm not going to let you just throw this out there without backing it up somehow. How, specifically will my being married **** up a generation of Americans. I want specific examples, not vague generalities. Will my marriage cause people to go insane? Will it make them shoot up movie theaters? Will they develop eating disorders, or start listening to Nickelback? What specific things will start happening to non-gay people once I am legally married in every state?
Ahem... Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah? Pretty sure he's worried you guys are going to multiply and start raping Angels.
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Marco Esquandolas
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In reply to Seamaster • 1:47p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
Beer Baron.

I predicted what I believe will result when marriage is further eroded in our culture. We'll have to wait and see whether I am right or wrong.

I might be on the wrong side of the way history is going but that does not bother me any more than being on the wrong side of history when it comes to the unborn or the death penalty. I am thankful that I am on the right side of nature.

If we're talking about 'irony' I find it ironic that so many of you just want those opposed to the destruction of marriage to simply shut up. I thought your crowd was supposed to be the open minded and tolerant bunch?
It's only "destruction" FOR YOU. For gays, marriage is being constructed and expanded.

I don't think anyone cares if anti-SSM people keep complaining, the arguments are over and the tide is turning. No one is trying to curtail your freedom of speech on this issue. Fundamentalists have been as outspoken on this issue in the political realm as possible for years now and the legal system and many or most Americans have not found the arguments compelling. You will never win trying to restrict civil liberties based on religious beliefs and if that bothers you then I don't know what country to tell you to go live in. Maybe Nigeria.

It doesn't matter if every Christian in the entire country agreed with you; you have to have some kind of compelling legal argument in order to restrict someone else's civil liberties and so far the the anti-SSM movement has produced jack squat.
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bigtatum
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2:29p, 1/18/15
I'm so thankful to have a strong meaningful marriage with my wife and fantastic kids. I can't imagine how much it would suck to be seamaster and be terrified gay marriage could strike at any minute and ruin my marriage and family life.

We'll be a must stronger healthier and resilient society when these people with weak relationships and family lives die off.

The future is bright
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Beer Baron
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In reply to Seamaster • 2:43p, 1/18/15
AG
Can't answer in depth right now but I certainly will later.
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bigtatum
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In reply to Seamaster • 2:57p, 1/18/15
quote:
Beer Baron.

I predicted what I believe will result when marriage is further eroded in our culture. We'll have to wait and see whether I am right or wrong.

I might be on the wrong side of the way history is going but that does not bother me any more than being on the wrong side of history when it comes to the unborn or the death penalty. I am thankful that I am on the right side of nature.

If we're talking about 'irony' I find it ironic that so many of you just want those opposed to the destruction of marriage to simply shut up. I thought your crowd was supposed to be the open minded and tolerant bunch?


You realize heterosexuality and homosexuality are both part of nature right? Of course you don't.

I hope your kind continue talking and speaking up. You're the best argument for gay marriage and equality. When you open your mouth people realize how baseless and ridiculous your sides arguments are. Your ilk will be highlighted in history books as the last holdouts for inequality. You will be remembered as a stain on American history and become synonymous with injustice. Please speak up. If you do enough you may get personally named in that disgraceful part of the history books
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2ndGen87
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3:08p, 1/18/15
AG
" Women were viewed as too ignorant to be allowed to teach children until after the American Revolution (look up Republican Motherhood). Fathers were supposed to have limited interaction with their children, leaving all but their moral education up to others. It's only in the last 150 years or so that this idyllic nuclear family was propagated as the norm. And even then, it was the norm in thought far more than in deed. The idea that there is some mysterious aura of biology around an opposite sex pair-bond unit raising children is Victorian bunk. It's not even biologically sound. Humans existed for most of their history in small groups led by a dominate male with a group of females."

This simply is not true. The Egyptians had hereditary leaders. Do you make this stuff up?
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7thGenTexan
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3:22p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
This simply is not true. The Egyptians had hereditary leaders. Do you make this stuff up?


Yes, he does make it up or he gets it from some silly commentary that he's been reading.

He hasn't yet explained that bit about limited contact with fathers when most people were working side by side with their children on farms (or herding, fishing, etc). It's ludicrous nonsense that he continually blithers about. It's scary that this person teaches history (or so he claims).
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bigtatum
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3:23p, 1/18/15
It's amazing to me how little people know about history and family arrangements. It's like half of Americans think the nuclear family is this static thing because the watched the Flintstones.
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haircut
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In reply to bigtatum • 3:24p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
quote:
Beer Baron.

I predicted what I believe will result when marriage is further eroded in our culture. We'll have to wait and see whether I am right or wrong.

I might be on the wrong side of the way history is going but that does not bother me any more than being on the wrong side of history when it comes to the unborn or the death penalty. I am thankful that I am on the right side of nature.

If we're talking about 'irony' I find it ironic that so many of you just want those opposed to the destruction of marriage to simply shut up. I thought your crowd was supposed to be the open minded and tolerant bunch?


You realize heterosexuality and homosexuality are both part of nature right? Of course you don't.

I hope your kind continue talking and speaking up. You're the best argument for gay marriage and equality. When you open your mouth people realize how baseless and ridiculous your sides arguments are. Your ilk will be highlighted in history books as the last holdouts for inequality. You will be remembered as a stain on American history and become synonymous with injustice. Please speak up. If you do enough you may get personally named in that disgraceful part of the history books
LOL! Nice speech. So heiroic
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bigtatum
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3:25p, 1/18/15
Your welcome
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Seamaster
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3:27p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
It's amazing to me how little people know about history and family arrangements.
Name a single sustained and significant historical people that had 'family arrangements' that was anything other than "mother + father + children."

I feel like I am looking at the sky and saying, "Look, the sky is blue!" And the peanut gallery is shouting me down saying, "Stop it with your antiquated notions, the sky is clearly whatever color you want it to be."

This could be a Kurt Vonnegut novel.
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Seamaster
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3:27p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
You realize heterosexuality and homosexuality are both part of nature right?
Homosexuality is contrary to nature. Just because it appears in nature, it is anomaly and not productive in the least. Cannibalism also appears in nature, by the way.
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SapperAg
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In reply to 7thGenTexan • 3:29p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
quote:
This simply is not true. The Egyptians had hereditary leaders. Do you make this stuff up?


Yes, he does make it up or he gets it from some silly commentary that he's been reading.

He hasn't yet explained that bit about limited contact with fathers when most people were working side by side with their children on farms (or herding, fishing, etc). It's ludicrous nonsense that he continually blithers about. It's scary that this person teaches history (or so he claims).


No, I'm not making it up. Childhood as a concept has only existed since the Rennaissance. You were an infant and then treated as a young adult. Yes, many of the children of farmers would stick around longer. That doesn't change what I said. Children would often get sent out of the household (even the children of peasants). This was considered normal and even beneficial.

I have no idea what you're talking about with Egypt. I was referencing the 400,000 years of human history before Egypt when talking about human group dynamics.
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Woody2006
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In reply to Seamaster • 3:32p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
quote:
You realize heterosexuality and homosexuality are both part of nature right?
Homosexuality is contrary to nature. Just because it appears in nature, it is anomaly and not productive in the least. Cannibalism also appears in nature, by the way.

Homosexuality is equated to cannibalism now? Are you kidding me? Your arguments get destroyed over and over again and yet you hold rigidly to your idiocy. It's really quite a thing to behold.
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bigtatum
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In reply to Seamaster • 3:32p, 1/18/15
quote:
quote:
You realize heterosexuality and homosexuality are both part of nature right?
Homosexuality is contrary to nature. Just because it appears in nature, it is anomaly and not productive in the least. Cannibalism also appears in nature, by the way.


It is part of nature. You're making your own judgement on productivity. Frankly I find you to be less productive for society than any homosexual. Pumping out kids and indoctrinating them with backwards nonsense then unleashing them on the earth. You're like locusts.
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Seamaster
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3:40p, 1/18/15
AG
Bigtatum.

The difference is that you hate me and call me a 'locust' and I pity you because you are so far removed from the truth. BTW - my view, is still the majority in these United States and my view has been upheld virtually every time a state has put it to a vote.

quote:
Homosexuality is equated to cannibalism now?

You missed my point. My point is that we cannot say that homosexuality is ok simply because it appears in nature. It is still unnatural in the sense that nature requires male and female to reproduce and reproduction is what humans, by nature, are oriented towards.
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bigtatum
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3:46p, 1/18/15
it's been a long time since your sharia version of Christianity has been in the majority on this issue.

You claimed you had nature on your side. I pointed out that homosexuality exists in and is part of nature. You were wrong as you commonly are.
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2ndGen87
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In reply to SapperAg • 3:53p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
This simply is not true. The Egyptians had hereditary leaders. Do you make this stuff up?


Yes, he does make it up or he gets it from some silly commentary that he's been reading.

He hasn't yet explained that bit about limited contact with fathers when most people were working side by side with their children on farms (or herding, fishing, etc). It's ludicrous nonsense that he continually blithers about. It's scary that this person teaches history (or so he claims).


No, I'm not making it up. Childhood as a concept has only existed since the Rennaissance. You were an infant and then treated as a young adult. Yes, many of the children of farmers would stick around longer. That doesn't change what I said. Children would often get sent out of the household (even the children of peasants). This was considered normal and even beneficial.

I have no idea what you're talking about with Egypt. I was referencing the 400,000 years of human history before Egypt when talking about human group dynamics.
So for the last 6,000 years, it has been Mother+Father. For the 400,00 before that, we were raised in prides like lions. Got it.
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Seamaster
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3:55p, 1/18/15
AG
quote:
You claimed you had nature on your side. I pointed out that homosexuality exists in and is part of nature. You were wrong as you commonly are.
You have zero understanding of the natural law argument, hence, the argument flew directly over your head and now you are claiming victory but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Natural law does is not a statement that "homosexual behavior never occurs in nature," so, your chest thumping is a straw man.
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bigtatum
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3:56p, 1/18/15
No you clearly didn't. But hey, a flintstones view of history is more fun and funny than dealing with reality
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Seamaster
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3:59p, 1/18/15
AG
Reality is this bigtatum....

Human beings are created by a male and female in a sexual union and stable families are the foundation of every culture that has ever thrived on this planet earth.

The reality is that homosexual couples cannot create life. That is reality.

The reason the state wants marriage is because the state recognizes that the state benefits when human beings are born into the state for the common good. Homosexual 'marriage' does nothing for the common good but instead is merely an expression of love between adults. A homosexual marriage, by definition, is opposed to life.
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bigtatum
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In reply to Seamaster • 4:01p, 1/18/15
quote:
quote:
You claimed you had nature on your side. I pointed out that homosexuality exists in and is part of nature. You were wrong as you commonly are.
You have zero understanding of the natural law argument, hence, the argument flew directly over your head and now you are claiming victory but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Natural law does is not a statement that "homosexual behavior never occurs in nature," so, your chest thumping is a straw man.


You said nature, not natural law in your original statement. You are just now saying natural law and I'm familiar with this nonsense too. Try not to be so sloppy putting forth your opinions and we won't have this confusion.
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bigtatum
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In reply to Seamaster • 4:05p, 1/18/15
quote:
Reality is this bigtatum....

Human beings are created by a male and female in a sexual union and stable families are the foundation of every culture that has ever thrived on this planet earth.

The reality is that homosexual couples cannot create life. That is reality.

The reason the state wants marriage is because the state recognizes that the state benefits when human beings are born into the state for the common good. Homosexual 'marriage' does nothing for the common good but instead is merely an expression of love between adults. A homosexual marriage, by definition, is opposed to life.


The state doesn't recognize marriage because of children or those incapable of bearing children would be denied marriage. Just because your family chose to become a baby factory doesn't mean the world and its laws revolve around your poor decisions. If we had a nation of seamasters we'd be back in the stone ages.
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P.C. Principal
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In reply to Seamaster • 4:05p, 1/18/15
quote:
Reality is this bigtatum....

Human beings are created by a male and female in a sexual union and stable families are the foundation of every culture that has ever thrived on this planet earth.

The reality is that homosexual couples cannot create life. That is reality.

The reason the state wants marriage is because the state recognizes that the state benefits when human beings are born into the state for the common good. Homosexual 'marriage' does nothing for the common good but instead is merely an expression of love between adults.
This is not a reason to make it illegal for same sex couples to marry.

Who exactly made you boss to decide how marriages contribute to "the common good?" What's your criteria? Is procreation a requirement for marriage? Is love between adults not a good enough reason to get married?

quote:
A homosexual marriage, by definition, is opposed to life.
According to your "definition."
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COOL LASER FALCON
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In reply to Seamaster • 4:11p, 1/18/15
quote:
Bigtatum.

The difference is that you hate me and call me a 'locust' and I pity you because you are so far removed from the truth. BTW - my view, is still the majority in these United States and my view has been upheld virtually every time a state has put it to a vote.
not according to Gallup
http://www.gallup.com/poll/169640/sex-marriage-support-reaches-new-high.aspx
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COOL LASER FALCON
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4:13p, 1/18/15
And seriously, is there anyone on this forum who used to support SSM and now opposes it? Does anyone who has made that switch?
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