Ryan Anderson on Marriage
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Last: 9 yr ago by SapperAg
He mentions that a large percentage of African-Americans and Hispanic kids are in single parent homes. Which statisticly makes them more susceptible to a myriad of negative outcomes in life.
Question..
How do you think those kids would do in same-sex parent homes by comparison?
Question..
How do you think those kids would do in same-sex parent homes by comparison?
I don't know. But I do know that the statistics show that children do better with both mother and father and that mother and father are biologically complementary and that children deserve both.
I would think a same-sex couple would be preferred to a single parent. I say this as a person who opposes adoption by same-sex couples in most cases.
Well, a thruple could be preferable to a single parent. A polygamist family could be preferable. But maybe we should just keep marriage what marriage as always been. Or better yet, take steps to strengthen what marriage actually is by taking marriage seriously and doing away with 'easy divorce' and "re-marriage."
Marriage has often been polygamy. Are you referring to our latest redefinition of what constitutes "traditional" marriage?
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I don't know. But I do know that the statistics show that children do better with both mother and father and that mother and father are biologically complementary and that children deserve both.
The statistics say nothing about "biologically complementary". That's you inserting your own bias into the work. I say that because dozens of studies have been done on gay parents showing no real difference in health and success for their children compared to straight couples.
He gives reason after reason as to why he thinks marriage should be between a man and a woman. But I am still unconvinced that we should not extend the benefits of marriage to same-sex couples. This is a legal, not a religious battle. And it all boils down to "I don't want them redefining MY word."
Ridiculous arguments sugarcoated in intelligent-sounding language.
Ridiculous arguments sugarcoated in intelligent-sounding language.
Exactly how I saw it.
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The statistics say nothing about "biologically complementary".
Oh, you're right. Male and female are obviously not complementary. How stupid of me.
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I say that because dozens of studies have been done on gay parents showing no real difference in health and success for their children compared to straight couples.
Just not true.
quote:Do you honestly need a statistic to convince you that men and women biologically complement one another?
The statistics say nothing about "biologically complementary".
Other than the Regnerus study, which had a boatload of problems in how it defined a homosexual couple and person, what sources do you have?
quote:quote:Do you honestly need a statistic to convince you that men and women biologically complement one another?
The statistics say nothing about "biologically complementary".
The attempt was to say that physical sexual compatability was a factor in the success of raising a child. I see zero evidence of that.
quote:Then I genuinely pity you. Every healthy human being in the world who was raised by mother and father can tell you things that their father taught them and only their father could teach them and vice/versa.
I see zero evidence of that.
Hey guys, lets ignore human history and culture!!!!
Which history? Children were sent away from the home absurdly early through most of western history as apprentices, laborers, or students. Women were viewed as too ignorant to be allowed to teach children until after the American Revolution (look up Republican Motherhood). Fathers were supposed to have limited interaction with their children, leaving all but their moral education up to others. It's only in the last 150 years or so that this idyllic nuclear family was propagated as the norm. And even then, it was the norm in thought far more than in deed. The idea that there is some mysterious aura of biology around an opposite sex pair-bond unit raising children is Victorian bunk. It's not even biologically sound. Humans existed for most of their history in small groups led by a dominate male with a group of females.
when is the last time anyone brought any semblance of a new argument to this discussion?
The argument is over and done. If your church doesn't want to marry or recognize same sex marriages, have fun. But there are no legitimate reasons for the government to not recognize same sex marriages to the same degree that they recognize a heterosexual marriage.
Sea master, I get that this is a big issue for you personally and I'm sorry things are not turning out the way you'd like them to, but every argument in that video has been discussed ad nauseum. These posts are not going to change anyone's minds. At this point, these posts are probably counterproductive for your side because those of us who are in favor of same sex marriage only look at these posts as confirmation that lots of people are still singling out homosexuality from a long list of sins that are otherwise ignored.
The argument is over and done. If your church doesn't want to marry or recognize same sex marriages, have fun. But there are no legitimate reasons for the government to not recognize same sex marriages to the same degree that they recognize a heterosexual marriage.
Sea master, I get that this is a big issue for you personally and I'm sorry things are not turning out the way you'd like them to, but every argument in that video has been discussed ad nauseum. These posts are not going to change anyone's minds. At this point, these posts are probably counterproductive for your side because those of us who are in favor of same sex marriage only look at these posts as confirmation that lots of people are still singling out homosexuality from a long list of sins that are otherwise ignored.
When is that poop slap coming?
Yep, no obsession with the Gays here.
So Seamaster, say the Supreme Court makes marriage equality a thing nationwide this summer. Can you please articulate for me how your life will be different the day after that happens? Because I can give you a pretty extensive list of ways mine will change.
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Which history? Children were sent away from the home absurdly early through most of western history as apprentices, laborers, or students.
No matter how many times you repeat this, it still isn't true. Most people were farming or fishing or herding - either as owners or servants or communally - with their extended families throughout most of "western" history.
Same thing for all of mankind apart from western history, though we'd have to add hunting and gathering to the mix.
quote:Ultimately, it will be the last shoe to drop in the destruction of marriage in our culture and healthy marriage culture is a bedrock to society that is necessary for the healthy development of children who become citizens. The other 'shoes' being easy divorce and easy remarriage.
So Seamaster, say the Supreme Court makes marriage equality a thing nationwide this summer. Can you please articulate for me how your life will be different the day after that happens?
Its going to **** up a generation of Americans. Next polygamy will be legal, because, why not? Then other 'arrangements.' Marriage will lose all meaning. Eventually gay people and polygamists will sue churches for the 'right' to get married in those churches and freedom of religion will be trampled upon. The birth rate of our culture will drop precipitously like it has in other parts of the world. The marriage rate will drop, not increase. Fewer hetero couples will bother with marriage too because marriage won't have any real meaning any more.
To name a few. How about this Beer Baron....I bet you a steak dinner with beers in Houston that if gay marriage is the law of the land, that 10 years later the marriage rate will have dropped by at least 15%. So, 10 years from now. Steak dinner and beers if I am wrong.
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The argument is over and done.
It is not done. Even if the Supreme Court rules that way, it won't be done. In 1973 the Supreme Court made murdering unborn children legal but that debate is far from over as the pro-life movement has grown stronger and more influential than ever. Truth is always worth fighting for and truth cannot be shouted down by an aggressive minority that wants to fundamental change the bedrock institution of human society.
Name a society that reflected the values you espouse that was objectively better off than ours is currently. I can name a whole bunch of societies that have similar values to these that are objectively worse off... And I don't even have to reach back into history to do so.
quote:Every Western culture that has ever existed until about 15 years ago.
Name a society that reflected the values you espouse that was objectively better off than ours is currently.
quote:Easy divorce and remarriage was unavailable in every western culture that ever existed until about 15 years ago?quote:Every Western culture that has ever existed until about 15 years ago.
Name a society that reflected the values you espouse that was objectively better off than ours is currently.
OK, 50 years ago then if you want to include easy divorce.
I'll raise you one. Take a look at those countries where SSM has been legal for a while and take a good look. Denmark, for example. It didn't take long before Denmark gays sued for the right to get married in any church and voila, now churches are FORCED to allow gay marriages in their churches.
I'll raise you one. Take a look at those countries where SSM has been legal for a while and take a good look. Denmark, for example. It didn't take long before Denmark gays sued for the right to get married in any church and voila, now churches are FORCED to allow gay marriages in their churches.
quote:Western countries 50 years ago were objectively better off than we are today? When exactly was this perfect society you have made up in your own mind? This idyllic Western, Christian culture that would fix our problems... when was that? Tell me again why your version of utopia is objectively better?
OK, 50 years ago then if you want to include easy divorce.
I'll raise you one. Take a look at those countries where SSM has been legal for a while and take a good look. Denmark, for example. It didn't take long before Denmark gays sued for the right to get married in any church and voila, now churches are FORCED to allow gay marriages in their churches.
Did I support forcing churches to perform marriages? We let churches deny marriage to interracial couples now... I have a feeling if there isn't pressure to force the interracial issue, forcing the LBGT issue won't have legs either.
The world won't come to an end due to SSM. Stop using threat of government force to make other people live exactly like you want them to. It simply doesn't affect you or your marriage that gay men are legally recognized.
It will effect all us because, like easy divorce, it will have a profound effect on our culture. Today 50% of hispanic kids are born out of wedlock and 70% of African Americans are born out of wedlock. If you think that has no effect on our culture as a whole, you are out of your mind. Gay marriage is just one more blow to marriage - but a particularly nasty one for reasons that you soon won't be able to ignore.
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It will effect all us because, like easy divorce, it will have a profound effect on our culture. Today 50% of hispanic kids are born out of wedlock and 70% of African Americans are born out of wedlock. If you think that has no effect on our culture as a whole, you are out of your mind. Gay marriage is just one more blow to marriage - but a particularly nasty one for reasons that you soon won't be able to ignore.
Do you think that is more because of "easy divorce" or because of our idiotic war on drugs among other victimless crimes? Be honest. If divorce were harder to obtain, we would have higher percentages of unbroken minority homes? Is that what you are suggesting?
I think its the result of easy divorce which hurt the image of marriage to such a degree where people largely don't view marriage is important anymore which allows men to abandon the women they knock up with little more than a shrug from society. We used to have this bedrock institution called marriage and the state recognized the societal benefits that marriage had on all of us so the state gave married people certain benefits. That institution has been chipped away at since the sexual revolution to where it will soon be meaningless.
quote:quote:
It will effect all us because, like easy divorce, it will have a profound effect on our culture. Today 50% of hispanic kids are born out of wedlock and 70% of African Americans are born out of wedlock. If you think that has no effect on our culture as a whole, you are out of your mind. Gay marriage is just one more blow to marriage - but a particularly nasty one for reasons that you soon won't be able to ignore.
Do you think that is more because of "easy divorce" or because of our idiotic war on drugs among other victimless crimes? Be honest. If divorce were harder to obtain, we would have higher percentages of unbroken minority homes? Is that what you are suggesting?
quote:quote:
It will effect all us because, like easy divorce, it will have a profound effect on our culture. Today 50% of hispanic kids are born out of wedlock and 70% of African Americans are born out of wedlock. If you think that has no effect on our culture as a whole, you are out of your mind. Gay marriage is just one more blow to marriage - but a particularly nasty one for reasons that you soon won't be able to ignore.
Do you think that is more because of "easy divorce" or because of our idiotic war on drugs among other victimless crimes? Be honest. If divorce were harder to obtain, we would have higher percentages of unbroken minority homes? Is that what you are suggesting?
Personally, I blame no fault divorce and feminism.
But that's beside the point. Same-sex marriage as defined by the government should be legal. It's a 14th amendment issue plain and simple. On top of that, the evidence points to equal outcomes for children raised by same sex couples as well as opposite sex couples. The only arguments against it are fallacies such as slippery slope and appeal to consequences.
quote:quote:Ultimately, it will be the last shoe to drop in the destruction of marriage in our culture and healthy marriage culture is a bedrock to society that is necessary for the healthy development of children who become citizens. The other 'shoes' being easy divorce and easy remarriage.
So Seamaster, say the Supreme Court makes marriage equality a thing nationwide this summer. Can you please articulate for me how your life will be different the day after that happens?
I find it odd how you are putting SSM - a union between two people - on the same level as divorce, the separation between two people. That is pretty offensive.
A marriage isn't magically healthy because the people are opposite sex, and this is something the anti-SSM loves to conveniently ignore. Kim Kardashian and Britney Spears's jokes of marriages don't have any more sanctity than two men who love each other wanting to get married. Some people rush into marriage because they are swept away by young love but made a rash decision without thinking it through enough.
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Its going to **** up a generation of Americans. Next polygamy will be legal, because, why not? Then other 'arrangements.' Marriage will lose all meaning. Eventually gay people and polygamists will sue churches for the 'right' to get married in those churches and freedom of religion will be trampled upon. The birth rate of our culture will drop precipitously like it has in other parts of the world. The marriage rate will drop, not increase. Fewer hetero couples will bother with marriage too because marriage won't have any real meaning any more.
I rolled my eyes hard reading this. I won't even deny a legal battle over polygamy, but I will say this- if there is a battle to legalize polygamy, they're going to have to use different arguments. SSM is still monogamy. Polygamy brings up a whole new can of worms of legal issues.
You also have no evidence for your claims about the birth rate and marriage rate dropping. Just more doom-and-gloom talk. What is so bad about the birth rate dropping? The world is already very populous and I want more kids in good households rather than babies popping up everywhere and sometimes to irresponsible parents.
Marriage rate dropping? IIRC, that's already happening. If it continues to decline, it won't be because of gay marriage. Lots of people (myself included) are reluctant to get married at least for a while because of the staggering divorce rate. It's also more socially acceptable today to have sex outside wedlock (whether you agree with this morally is a different story). Many people don't see a need in getting married. I hope to get married one day, but think society's belief (especially in the south and Texas) that you OUGHT to get married is BS.
This is a major red herring that you really have no business attributing to SSM.
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To name a few. How about this Beer Baron....I bet you a steak dinner with beers in Houston that if gay marriage is the law of the land, that 10 years later the marriage rate will have dropped by at least 15%. So, 10 years from now. Steak dinner and beers if I am wrong.
You could be right, but you need a TON of evidence to actually prove a link between that and SSM.
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The argument is over and done.
It is not done. Even if the Supreme Court rules that way, it won't be done. In 1973 the Supreme Court made murdering unborn children legal but that debate is far from over as the pro-life movement has grown stronger and more influential than ever. Truth is always worth fighting for and truth cannot be shouted down by an aggressive minority that wants to fundamental change the bedrock institution of human society.
Yes, the argument IS done. Get over it. Move on. Comparing it to abortion is offensive, in my opinion. I completely understand the opposition to abortion. I never will understand Republican's opposition to SSM. It's obsession with other people's lifestyles. Plain and simple.
Be a man about it and concede defeat. Throw in the towel. It's over. Some battles are won, some lost. It's okay. Your life won't be affected and neither will mine. If your life IS affected, then you will have gone out of your way to make it so. That is obsession.
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The argument is over and done.
It is not done. Even if the Supreme Court rules that way, it won't be done. In 1973 the Supreme Court made murdering unborn children legal but that debate is far from over as the pro-life movement has grown stronger and more influential than ever.
Yea it's done. The only thing you ever post are gay threads and they all end the same way, with the tired arguments defeated. No one is saying that marriage between a man and woman isn't great, only that gay marriage should be legally recognized. This isn't like roe v. wade, there is a clear difference in demographic opinions as you decrease age groups. You are on the wrong side of history on this one. This is like civil rights for blacks, it will be resisted by the more conservative elements in society, but the younger generation just doesn't care for it and it will die. The arguments for it are intellectually inferior and are defeated with ease at every encounter, as evidence by how they always end on this board.
quote:Completely false.
On top of that, the evidence points to equal outcomes for children raised by same sex couples as well as opposite sex couples.
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I think its the result of easy divorce which hurt the image of marriage to such a degree where people largely don't view marriage is important anymore which allows men to abandon the women they knock up with little more than a shrug from society. We used to have this bedrock institution called marriage and the state recognized the societal benefits that marriage had on all of us so the state gave married people certain benefits. That institution has been chipped away at since the sexual revolution to where it will soon be meaningless.
Things were so great 50 years ago that women were popping pills, becoming raging alcoholics, and going into clinical depression. They were so happy that they decided they'd had enough of being treated like ignorant children, and not having s say in their own lives. Must've been a great time for guys like you.
And what do you know about the breakdown of the black family? It has nothing to do with "no fault divorce." Are you kidding me?
1) mass desegregation with no integration into society 2) Vietnam 3) the great society 4) drug trafficking 5) gangs... These are the reasons why the black family has eroded, it's got absolutely nothjng to do with no fault divorce. You should read a book, something that isn't the bible or written by a Fox News contributor.
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