Origins of Christian Trinity

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Win At Life
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I came across this information and wanted to see if you guys could find any factual errors in it. Thanks.

A 'trinity' is, again, a freak. It originated in Sumeria, but, overwhelming historiography shows that this idea was PREVALENT throughout the world! I do contend that its original was with Nimrod and the tower of "Bavel", the tower of "Confusion". This doctrine has probably done more to 'confuse' the people of the world than any other doctrine, and it has served to divide those who claim to follow the Messiah. More people have died over this doctrine than any other. And again, this was the first excuse the 'church' used to KILL PEOPLE in the name of "Jesus". Can it really, then, be 'divine revelation to the "fathers", as its defenders claim?

Further reading:
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/abdulmuhd/amuhd/1208/the-dievine-trinity-and-religious-myths/
Babylonian Trinity

Egyptian Trinity

Syrian Trinity

Hindu Trinity

Greek Othodox Trinity


Deuteronomy 12:
29 When Yahweh, your Elohim, shall cut off the nations from before you , whither thou go in to dispossess them, and you dispossess them, and dwell in their land;
30 take heed to yourself that you be not ensnared to follow them, after that they are destroyed from before you; and that you inquire not after their gods, saying: 'How used these nations to serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.'
31 You shall not do so unto Yahweh, your Elohim; for every abomination to Yahweh, which He hates, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters do they burn in the fire to their gods.

Mental gymnastics are necessary in order to perpetuate this idea of 'trinity'; spiritual compromise over the Word has to be the mantra of defense, because it simply is NOT in the Word!

The Ruakh HaKodesh, [Holy Spirit] is not a 'person'. NEVER ONCE is it called so in scripture. In Hebrew and Greek, the word "he" and "it" are exactly the same! So, just because it reads "he will lead you and guide you into all truth" in English, this is not ground for calling the Ruakh a 'separate' 'person'.

In Aramaic that verse [John 16:13] reads, And when the Ruakh Ha'Emet [the Spirit of Truth] comes, it will lead you into all truth".

Ruakh is a femenine noun. And the way it reads is, "V'kha'asher tavo Ruakh Ha'Emet, hee tadrikh et'khem b'khal emet, ki LO t'daber mimakhashavtah shelah, elah et kal asher tishma t'daber, v'et ha'atidot todia lakhem".

Lest you doubt what I am about to write, just note that it is the same in the Tanak [the "old testament"].

The Ruakh is FEMININE. Every Hebrew noun, verb, adjective, etc, is either masculine or feminine. One 'could' interpret that verse above, from Yeshua, more accurately linguistically by saying "SHE will lead you into all truth; for 'she will not speak her own thoughts, but what she hears she will speak, and that which is to come she will tell to you".

Now, hold your horses. NO JEW WOULD EVER translate it that way into English. It is "IT".

In English, it would be better, more accurately rendered "And when the Ruakh HaKodesh comes, IT will lead you into all truth, for it will not speak its own thoughts, but everything it hears it will speak, and will show to you things to come".

To personify this accurately, one would have to call the Ruakh "she". We know that is not the case with Elohim, though within Him he possesses all qualities of goodness.

More importantly, Our Master, Yeshua, supported the Great Command of Yisrael: [Mark 12]

Hear, O Yisrael: Yahweh is our Elohim, Yahweh is one.
And you shall love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

Some people use the fact that Elohim ends in 'im', and it's plural, so that means god is three in one. No. Because if that were the case, you'd have to find the doer of the action to match the number of the noun.

Not once does any verse show 'Elohim' to be 'acting' as more than one being. His actions are always SINGULAR; every adjective to describe him, "compassionate, gracious, merciful..." is SINGULAR. Just like every word has gender in Hebrew, every word also has 'number', and the number must match the noun and the verb and the adjective, etc.

The mystery of 'bavel' is that the harlot 'blends' other religion with the worship of Yah. This is what happened throughout the ages, and Yah warns us not to do so, over and over and over; it was this sin that drove Israel out of the land, and this will be the sin that brings judgment on the earth: Mixing truth with lies, and calling it divine truth, 'revealed' truth.

The historical record is rife with evidence that the trinity is just exactly that; the blending of scripture with the lies of paganism. Below is just a sample of that phenomenon:


"The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu's share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods" ( The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, 1994, pp. 54-55)

"In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote: 'All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity'" (Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197-198).

"The Hymn to Amun decreed that 'No god came into being before him (Amun)' and that 'All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. Hidden is his name as Amon, he is Re in face, and his body is Ptah.' . . . This is a statement of trinity, the three chief gods of Egypt subsumed into one of them, Amon. Clearly, the concept of organic unity within plurality got an extraordinary boost with this formulation. Theologically, in a crude form it came strikingly close to the later Christian form of plural Trinitarian monotheism" (Simson Najovits, Egypt, Trunk of the Tree, Vol. 2, 2004, pp. 83-84).

"The ancient Babylonians recognized the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god— as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity" (Thomas Dennis Rock, The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations, 1867, pp. 22-23).

"The Puranas, one of the Hindoo Bibles of more than 3,000 years ago, contain the following passage: 'O ye three Lords! know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity, that I may address to him alone my adorations.' The three gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva [or Shiva], becoming manifest to him, replied, 'Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only the semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation, and destruction, but he is one.'

"Hence the triangle was adopted by all the ancient nations as a symbol of the Deity . . . Three was considered among all the pagan nations as the chief of the mystical numbers, because, as Aristotle remarks, it contains within itself a beginning, a middle, and an end. Hence we find it designating some of the attributes of almost all the pagan gods" (Sinclair, pp. 382-383).

Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:
"It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan . . .
"The ancient Egyptians, whose influence on early religious thought was profound, usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis, and so forth . . .
"The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognized the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One . . .
"The application of this old pagan conception of a Trinity to Christian theology was made possible by the recognition of the Holy Spirit as the required third 'Person,' co-equal with the other 'Persons' . . .
"The idea of the Spirit being co-equal with God was not generally recognised until the second half of the Fourth Century A.D. . . . In the year 381 the Council of Constantinople added to the earlier Nicene Creed a description of the Holy Spirit as 'the Lord, and giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified.' . . .
"Thus, the Athanasian creed, which is a later composition but reflects the general conceptions of Athanasius [the 4th-century Trinitarian whose view eventually became official doctrine] and his school, formulated the conception of a co-equal Trinity wherein the Holy Spirit was the third 'Person'; and so it was made a dogma of the faith, and belief in the Three in One and One in Three became a paramount doctrine of Christianity, though not without terrible riots and bloodshed . . .
"Today a Christian thinker . . . has no wish to be precise about it, more especially since the definition is obviously pagan in origin and was not adopted by the Church until nearly three hundred years after Christ" (pp. 197-203)

Yeshua is the vessel where divinity and humanity merge. He is divine. He was in Elohim in the beginning; He had no earthly father, no beginning of days, no end. But, the Ruakh 'birthed' His flesh...the Word became 'flesh'. The Word was no more separate from Elohim than your own word is from you: your will, your desire, your passion, your love. It is part of you. Elohim 'sent' His Word, Yeshua, into this world. The 'official' trinity doctrine teaches that "god came into the world and died"; no, Elohim SENT His Son into the world, who died, and Elohim RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.


"Come out from among them and be distinct". This doctrine merges words from the scriptures with words from the pagans, and promotes it as revealed truth.

Whoever it is that is struggling with this, I challenge you: FIND IT IN SCRIPTURE: the word 'trinity'. In any form. [triad, triune, etc].
SoulSlaveAG2005
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Ah dang! You forgot Hollywood trinity, circa 1999 in the Matrix...
opk
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quote:
Hear, O Yisrael: Yahweh is our Elohim, Yahweh is one.
And you shall love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.


Win at life, where did you get this translation? It is completely wrong, grammatically.
Guadaloop474
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I always thought that the first reference to the Trinity was in Genesis 1:26....as well as Genesis 3:22....

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus73 (edited 2/4/2013 10:01a).]
opk
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Thaddeus, assuming that the word "our" is a reference to the trinity is quite a stretch.
Win At Life
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quote:
quote:
________________________________________
Hear, O Yisrael: Yahweh is our Elohim, Yahweh is one.
And you shall love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
________________________________________


Win at life, where did you get this translation? It is completely wrong, grammatically.


Que?

Deut 6:4 (NASB)
“Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

It’s just the NASB with Yisrael for Israel, Yahweh for LORD (YHVH) and Elohim for God.

Explain please.
Thanks.
yesno
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Thaddeus, assuming that the word "our" is a reference to the trinity is quite a stretch.
*********************
Is it a reference to Thor and Zeus?
opk
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Win At Life:

The Shema in Hebrew is:

"Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad!"

"Hear Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

You used the word "Elohim" in your mis-translation.

Elohim means "Gods".

Eloheinu means "Our God"

opk
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professor gradoo,

In all due respect

In re: we

It is either the Pluralis Majestatis, the Regal "we", or a reference to God's angels.
Assuming that it is a reference to the trinity is proof texting at it's best.

Physical Graffiti
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Genesis 1: 1-2 - 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
opk
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Exodus 20:2


"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

"Lo yi'heyeh lach elohim acherim al panei."
yesno
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It is either the Pluralis Majestatis, the Regal "we", or a reference to God's angels.
Assuming that it is a reference to the trinity is proof texting at it's best.
************************
opk, I never thought that verse in Genesis was a reference to the doctrine of the Trinity. I heard of that concept in seminary and thought, "The writer of Genesis was not into that stuff."
TheFirebird
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The photograph of what appears to be the inside of a Greek Orthodox cupola does not depict a Christian "Trinity", Greek Orthodox or otherwise. It is a fresco of the Theotokos (Mary) flanked by two angels.

You should probably check on stuff like that before launching into tirades like this.

The Orthodox do have depictions of the Trinity. The classic Trinitarian depiction is of Christ's baptism, with Christ, the Holy Spirit (descending per Scripture in the "form of a dove") and Light representing the Father. Orthodox do believe the Baptism of Christ revealed the Trinity:



Another classic Orthodox Trinitarian depiction is Andrei Rublev's "Old Testament Trinity", a major piece of the world's cultural heritage in its own right. It is more accurately called the "Hospitality of Abraham", where Abraham's three divine guests prefigured and were a "type" of Trinity (although were not the Holy Trinity itself):



Frequently in Orthodox churches you will find the Trinity depicted as Christ, a dove (the Holy Spirit) and the Father (a bearded figure). Strictly speaking this is not canonical, as Orthodox theology teaches that God the Father cannot be depicted because he has never revealed his form to man, unlike the Spirit (at Baptism) and the Word (Christ). However, it is a part of folk piety deeply ingrained in much of Orthodox culture:



I have now armed you to better do battle against we Trinitarian heretics! Go forth and mislabel our icons no more!
yesno
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That last picture is very cool Firebird!
Guadaloop474
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It's not just "our"...it's also "us."

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus73 (edited 2/4/2013 3:02p).]
Jason C.
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The JWs that used to come to my house (I miss those guys) were always going off on the Egyptian "source" of the Holy Trinity. Their argument was that the earlier Egyptians also had a trinity of sorts, therefore, the later Christian trinity is really pagan. (Of course they were starting from the assumption that God is one and not a tri-unity as revealed by Christ.)

I mean, Zoroaster preached a monotheistic religion, and did so (arguably) before such a concept showed up among the Jews; so was my front-porch JWs' concept of monotheism (and presumably that of the original poster) really as pagan in origin as my Holy Trinity?

No.

Rather, two principles seem to be obvious: (1) other cultures/religions can be right about something, and (2) just because they did it first doesn't mean we're doing it because of them (and, in fact, maybe God planted those truths in the other cultures/religions to allow their hearts to be more fertile for the eventual reception of His word?).
DirtDiver
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If some have a very very hard time finding the doctine of the Trinity in the OT it most likely because member number 2 hadn't shown up yet (in His earthly form).

Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
ramblin_ag02
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It's certainly a confusing subject. The OT certainly contains references to Father God and the Holy Spirit. They are considered separate in the texts, but both are clearly divine.

The concept of Jesus as both man and God is beyond comprehension. How can someone be unlimited but limited, omniscient but ignorant, immortal but mortal? It defies our understanding. On that note, I try to not argue too much about things I couldn't really understand anyway.
OceanStateAg
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Augustine had an interesting take on the trinity being present from the first lines of Genesis.

In Revelation Christ is referred to as the Alpha, the beginning.
Paul tells us that all was creating for Christ and through Christ.

So God being a transcendent being has not yet created time, but rather begins His creation through Christ, In the Beginning, i.e. in Christ the Father created the heavens and the earth. Via the eternal Word, Christ, all things came to be. As the Spirit proceeded from the Father and (or through) the Son (the Word) and all matter in the universe and the separation between heaven and the universe came to be.

Just an interesting take.
primrose
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The Firebird, thanks for saving me an angry post.

Well explained.
primrose
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oops!

[This message has been edited by primrose (edited 2/4/2013 9:27p).]
PhilkPhilth
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quote:
It's certainly a confusing subject. The OT certainly contains references to Father God and the Holy Spirit. They are considered separate in the texts, but both are clearly divine.

The concept of Jesus as both man and God is beyond comprehension. How can someone be unlimited but limited, omniscient but ignorant, immortal but mortal? It defies our understanding. On that note, I try to not argue too much about things I couldn't really understand anyway.


So who is going to hell and at what point do i stop trying to make sense of it and just accept nonsense as invulnerable truth?
SoulSlaveAG2005
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"So who is going to hell and at what point do i stop trying to make sense of it and just accept nonsense as invulnerable truth?"

Not sure if you are serious about this discussion?
opk
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"Assuming that it is a reference to the trinity is proof texting at it's best."

************************

quote:
professor gradoo wrote: opk, I never thought that verse in Genesis was a reference to the doctrine of the Trinity. I heard of that concept in seminary and thought, "The writer of Genesis was not into that stuff."



professor, To clarify: The quote at the top was not directed to you but to Win At Life. Sorry I wasn't clear. S'all good.
yesno
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I always thought the trinity was a reference to: YES, Genesis, Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Win At Life
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quote:
in fact, maybe God planted those truths in the other cultures/religions to allow their hearts to be more fertile for the eventual reception of His word?


Where in God’s word do you find the definition of the doctrine of the Trinity?
EVA3
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Matt. 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

John 10:
22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; 23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

40 And He went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was first baptizing, and He was staying there. 41 Many came to Him and were saying, “While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true.” 42 Many believed in Him there.
EVA3
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I think he's onto something!

THE PORCINE TRINITY:


THE MARLEY TRINITY:


THE CHIPMUNK TRINITY:


THE AMIGO TRINITY:


THE DUCK TRINITY:


THE RICE KRISPIES TRINITY:
Jason C.
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And most important of all, The Grand Unified Conspiracy to Pervert Traditional Christianity Only Cracked by Three People and Their Bibles 2000 Years Later trinity:

Win At Life
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“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”
EVA3
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You come here to slam the idea of the trinity, using faulty logic. You assert that some photos are of "trinities," when that is patently false. You try to lay atrocities of war at the feet of Christians, when they are the result of misguided religious wars which occurred centuries ago.

We defend our position with logic and scripture, and a little humor, and we're the bad guys?

Lighten up. It was meant in fun. I disagree with your point. Just because things come in threes doesn't make them "trinities."
Win At Life
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At least now I understand what passes as your definition of logic.
fahraint
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There are things I can not wrap my mind around, and am good with it, the Trinity being one, hypercalvinism another, God changing His mind a third, and the Aggies going 10-2
gordo97
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11-2 dang it!!!! 11-2!!!!!
fahraint
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11 is a prime number.....cant go there, too mysterious
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