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Without "spiritual eyes" most miracles, from Noah to the resurrection appear as stupid.

To me, looking at reality itself, and assuming that it is the product only of billions and billions of years of constant mistakes is beyond.......

Well, that requires a faith that I don't have.

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 10/28/2012 3:23p).]

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Muslims and many other religions claim "spiritual eyes." What reason would god have to make his miracles "appear stupid?"

You don't have to have faith in any scientific theory. Question the heck out of everything. That's how our scientific understanding changes. I guess you think it's cute to compare science to blind faith but discussing science in no way makes a positive argument for your faith.

I like the story of Noah. I am not that interested in whether it happened as told in Genesis; what is interesting is the concept of destruction and rebirth.

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I like the story of Noah. I am not that interested in whether it happened as told in Genesis; what is interesting is the concept of destruction and rebirth.

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you mean genocide, right? what kind of loving god would willingly murder millions of people?

you mean genocide, right? what kind of loving god would willingly murder millions of people?
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Oh sorry, I forgot to dumb it down for you.

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you mean genocide, right? what kind of loving god would willingly murder millions of people?

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Ugh.

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You don't have to have faith in any scientific theory. Question the heck out of everything. That's how our scientific understanding changes. I guess you think it's cute to compare science to blind faith but discussing science in no way makes a positive argument for your faith.

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My point was that science works from a purely physical perspective. All that is is matter.

All, and I mean all, origins, whether purely physical, spiritual, or a combination of both, operate from assumptions. At least, that's the word we use to dress it up. Those 'assumptions' are really statements of faith about how the universe started and works.

I simply don't have the faith to view the vast complicated creation, especially creatures and man, and take a deep breath, sigh, and then assume(take by faith) that all I see and experience is a product of eons of mistakes

I simply don't have the faith.....I mean assumptions.

Yes, I do believe in a literal translation of the Noah's Ark story...So what?

I also believe the God parting the Red Sea for Moses and the Israelites, the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah with fire from heaven, manna from heaven falling in the desert, the angel of death passing over the Israelites' houses and striking dead the first born Egyptians, etc...

God is God, after all....

global flood? 2 of every single animal in the world?

unpossible

It is irrelevant that it is impossible. Once you've concluded that God makes the impossible possible, then nothing is impossible.

Now that it's possible, the only question you're left with is whether it actually happened.

And the answer to that is "Duh! It says it in the bible, doesn't it?"

Problem solved






[This message has been edited by Captain Pablo (edited 10/30/2012 10:03a).]

How many people 100 years ago would ever believe that we could get pornography through the air to a hand held device? How many people 100 years ago would believe that a camera could be a tape recorder could be a book could be a flashlight could be a radio?

Miracles happen...

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus73 (edited 10/30/2012 3:48p).]

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How many people 100 years ago would ever believe that we could get pornography through the air to a hand held device? How many people 100 years ago would believe that a camera could be a tape recorder could be a book could be a flashlight could be a radio?

Miracles happen...

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus73 (edited 10/30/2012 3:48p).]

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In biblical times god just let you force a conquered woman or slave to marry you then do whatever you want with her. I'll take internet porn you don't have to look at any day.

Flashlights, computers, lightbulbs are not "miracles". They are man-made objects, the product of man-made technological advances. We can directly attribute their development and existence to something - man.

Sorry - God made science, not man...

[This message has been edited by 7thGenTexan (edited 11/18/2012 1:01p).]

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Sorry - God made science, not man...

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Then why do you deny God?

I'm not a young earth guy, but I do without hesitation believe in the story of the Ark.

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By this logic, God made nuclear bombs and sex toys.

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I doubt thread knows what sex toys are except for the few he's come across while reading gay forums.

Watty,

Do you believe in a local flood or that the whole world was flooded and every animal put on a boat by a 500 year old man?

A Catholic perspective. Cliff notes version: Details of the flood (e.g. its coverage, when it took place) are questions for science, not theology.

Aggrad- I believe it was local, and that "two of every kind" allow for a much smaller number of animals than if it were two of every species. I think there was a literal flood, but that the story is also full of symbolism.

an irreverent look at noah's ark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BzWUuZN5w

The reason I even brought this up is the Catholic Priest I sat next to on a flight doesn't even believe the Noah's Ark story.

He was an interesting guy and was far more of a skeptic than I would have imagined regarding Biblical folklore.

I think that priest is among many devout Christians who AT LEAST believe that the story of Noah is just that --- a story.

Agreed Pablo.

And that belief, that it's just a story would be considered a reasonable belief, IMO.

Actually believing the Ark story literally would be childish and silly. (again IMO)

watty,

That's what I thought, but based on your first response it was unclear and I thought it peculiar for you to hold the more literal view.

You believe the Noah's Ark story in that the flood was local? Okay. I guess it could happen.


You believe the story in every literal sense? In that the ENTIRE WORLD was flooded, and 2 of EVERY animal in existence at the time all fit onto the boat?

Okay, so there are a lot of implications here. Insects. All of them. Giraffes, Elephants, Crocodiles, Lions, every bird needs to be caged. Every animal needs to be fed. Including the carnivores. How many animals died on board? This would imply they are extinct now. How did the animals survive being away from their natural habitat for so long?

Also, kangaroos. The two kangaroos eloped to Australia after the flood and populated the whole island.


if you believe the Noah's Ark story, I think the only view consistent with basic knowledge is the local view.

Ummm... so what about the fish and other sea creatures? How did the flood wipe them out?

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They didn't get wiped out, they weren't punished by god at al;, in fact they got to feast on all the dead animals-that's why all fish have that smug look on their face.

that's why all fish have that smug look on their face
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too bad the jellyfish didn't get wiped out