The God rejector pounds on God, Christians, the Bible, etc., etc., et al. Obviously it is easy to attempt to tear something down as opposed to building something. However, since the unbelievers hate the Bible and any rules that counter their anarchy and hedonistic tendencies what book is their alternative?

Job laments that the devil does not have a book so if the unbelievers are right (which they aren't) what is their alternative? Especially since all of the unbelievers are all for the certain unalienable rights endowed by our Creator.

Just asking?

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

This is the greatest and most simple statement of human morality. If we loved by this one sentence, then the worl would be virtually without suffering.

The Bible rocks.

The other commandment that goes with it is where our leftist friends have the most trouble.

And just about every religion teaches that or a variation of it. As far as moral teachings go most religions, including Christianity, are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

Additionally if you use the Bible to define perfection then it isn't possible for something to be more perfect than the Bible.

[This message has been edited by rocag (edited 2/13/2012 8:03p).]

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The other commandment that goes with it is where our leftist friends have the most trouble.

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There are a few million leftist black and hispanic Christians in this country (not to mention the white ones), and millions more in South America, Africa, and Asia who would disagree.

The bible is borrowed from several oral traditions as well as written ones from the ancient world.

These massive borrowings were compiled into a single compendium at one of the councils in asia minor ( i believe one of the chalcedons).

It is good reading, nice fiction and philosophy....minus the mythological theology component of course. Also, minus the old testament.

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And just about every religion teaches that or a variation of it. As far as moral teachings go most religions, including Christianity, are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

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Really? Please post a citation! Of course, you know nothing about Christianity so I don't see how you can comment on its similarity to other religions. Let me give you an example, Jesus lives! Mohammad is dead! Buddha is dead!

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Additionally if you use the Bible to define perfection then it isn't possible for something to be more perfect than the Bible.

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Where did you come up with this? Your reading skills and leap of logic escape me. I did not say the Bible is perfect. I said people like you discount the validity of the Bible. The OP is asking if their is another book of morals and life more perfect than the Bible. Is there? Where can I get a copy? See you godless have NO rule book but always want to give me rules or tell me which one of God's rules that you don't like. So eventually it comes down to attacking the Bible which you can't possibly understand because it is for believers and you aren't a believer. Again, what is a better book out there?

[This message has been edited by TopHat (edited 2/13/2012 8:57p).]

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There are a few million leftist black and hispanic Christians in this country (not to mention the white ones), and millions more in South America, Africa, and Asia who would disagree.

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Disagreeing about what?

"Love the Lord your God will all your heart, strength and mind."

That is LIKE love your neighbor as yourself.

Can you explain why?

Hint: John 21:15-18

[This message has been edited by Fightin TX Aggie (edited 2/13/2012 9:09p).]

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The bible is borrowed from several oral traditions as well as written ones from the ancient world.

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Wrong. You don't know who wrote the Bible or when it was written or what languages or when the various books, letters, and Epistles were put in its current forms. God says how we got the Word and you have a different story. Of course you are a court jester so I suppose that we will go with God's version of how we got his Word instead of your absolutely baseless fantasy and fiction.

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These massive borrowings were compiled into a single compendium at one of the councils in asia minor ( i believe one of the chalcedons).

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Please cite the other books where Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Timothy, Titus, Philemon, I & II Peter, I, II, & III John, Jude, and Revelation were borrowed from. Not only are you an idiot you are a liar. There is no record anywhere in the World that has the records and truths in these Gospels, letters, and Epistles. Not even close. If you got the proof then post it and you don't and you won't.

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It is good reading, nice fiction and philosophy....minus the mythological theology component of course. Also, minus the old testament.

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Actually it has solid truths that if you applied in your life it would be a much better life than you live now. Truths like "Lie not one to another" or "Let him that stole steal no more rather let him work with his hands that thing which is good so that he might have to give to him that needeth."

Only a dumb fish (dumb bass) would not see the goodness and value of these Biblical Words and truths.

Have you ever had a comment on this board that builds something up instead of tearing things down? Even once?

[This message has been edited by TopHat (edited 2/13/2012 9:13p).]

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"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you."
-- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India,
circa 3000 BC



"What is hateful to you, do not to our fellow man. That is entire Law, all the rest is commentary."
-- Talmud, Shabbat 31a, from the Judaic tradition,
circa 1300 BC



"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself."
-- Avesta, Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5, from the Zoroastrian tradition,
circa 600 BC



"Hurt not others in ways that you find hurtful."
-- Tripitaka, Udanga-varga 5,18 , from the Buddhist tradition,
circa 525 BC



"Surely it is the maxim of loving kindness, do not unto others that which you would not have done unto you."
-- Analects, Lun-yu XV,23, from the Confucian tradition,
circa 500 BC

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Try something not so generic. Match something for me starting in Acts through Revelations if you can. You can't!

If you just want to say be good to your neighbor then try Buddha. He was a hell of an administrator but he is dead.

The Christian Bible is about a risen Lord and our relationship with the Lord. Think you can give me some copy from other religions on this subject? No?

Why didn't you quote Hammurabi's Code? It has some great laws and rules too.

[This message has been edited by TopHat (edited 2/13/2012 9:28p).]

Just making sure it is clear to all that the Golden rule IS NOT original to the Bible, It was a well known moral concept thousands of years befor Christ. Just sayin

For a person who claims to love scripture so much, tophat, you exhibit shockingly little grace,compassion and love for others on this board. Drop the pride. Drop the anger. Pride yourself in being made low as scripture teaches. And quite simply, stop being a jerk.

And I'm confused. What do you mean by perfect?

I think the OP responded to my post without realizing it.

The golden rule is not what I posted, nor what Jesus taught, per se. There's a difference.

How about this: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

[This message has been edited by Fightin TX Aggie (edited 2/13/2012 10:55p).]

It's peculiar that you think non-Christians know nothing about the teachings and history of the Christian faith. I consider myself more well read than the average guy on the subject so I'll just disagree. And if you were to ask a Buddhist they'd tell you that the Buddha reached parinirvana which is not the same as death. Of course I think that's about as likely as your risen Christ but I'm neither Buddhist nor Christian.

Your question was for a book or set of rules "more perfect" than the Bible. First you must define what perfection is. I haven't seen you do that yet in this thread. Without some objective standard to judge this is simply a question of preference. I could give you dozens of ethical and moral philosophies compatible with atheism if you'd like, along with books describing them since that seems to be so important to you. But my preference certainly wouldn't be the same as yours.

And good to see I'm not the only one that suspects troll. Hard to tell though. Poe's Law is always in effect here on Texags.

Tophat you are a misguided fool.

Here is a list of virgin births from the ancient world, most predating christianity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virgin_births

You will notice a common theme that is heavily borrowed...the coming of a messianic figure and a complete shunning of the female birth canal. The idea of a son of God wasn't a new idea, neither was the idea of a virgin birth or a messiah.

In fact, people actively believed those things about many gods and goddesses during that time period. It was used as a method to proselytize the polytheistic cultures of the former hellenistic world and the roman world. Jesus wasn't the first person to be proclaimed the son of God....and the jews were not the first monotheists.

Ever heard of a guy named Akhenaten? The entire idea of yahweh was a rip off from him.

Read and educate yourself before speaking so you look like less of a moron....if that is possible.

For a person who claims to love scripture so much, tophat, you exhibit shockingly little grace,compassion and love for others on this board.
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Yes.
Christianity is no cure for mental illness.

The Bible is not a rule book, it is NEWS. There are beneficial rules and stories and advice within it, but those things are not the point. The Bible is a true story about what has been done and it demands a response to that news.

tdallis

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Tophat you are a misguided fool.

Here is a list of virgin births from the ancient world, most predating christianity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virgin_births

You will notice a common theme that is heavily borrowed...the coming of a messianic figure and a complete shunning of the female birth canal. The idea of a son of God wasn't a new idea, neither was the idea of a virgin birth or a messiah.

In fact, people actively believed those things about many gods and goddesses during that time period. It was used as a method to proselytize the polytheistic cultures of the former hellenistic world and the roman world. Jesus wasn't the first person to be proclaimed the son of God....and the jews were not the first monotheists.

Ever heard of a guy named Akhenaten? The entire idea of yahweh was a rip off from him.

Read and educate yourself before speaking so you look like less of a moron....if that is possible.

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I was curious, so I read through the material you provided. First off your claim that the idea of Yahweh was ripped off from Akhenaten is not supported by the text.

Also the virgin births you claim where most of them predate Christianity is also not true. I pulled out some of the relevant text. It would appear that there is no scripture or text that predates, but later traditions. The Vishnu stuff with a Muslim family tradition has to be after since Islam didn’t come till after Christianity.

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It is widely believed that the Avatars taken by Vishnu on earth were virgin "births".

Many centuries later, the poet Kabir was also said to have been born of a virgin widow (a Hindu), through the palm of her hand. Like Karna, Kabir was sent down the river in a basket; he was found and adopted by a family of Muslim weavers, downstream.

"It is obvious that ancient pre-Christian Buddhism knows nothing of the virginity of the mother of Buddha.

Perseus: Perseus was the son of Danaë. She was locked away while a young girl, to prevent her having children, but Zeus came to her in the form of a shower of gold and impregnated her.

The golden shower has from ancient times been interpreted as a reference to bribery of those in charge of keeping her.[citation needed] The Greek Anthology has the following: ZEUS, turned to gold, piercing the brazen chamber of Danae, cut the knot of intact virginity.

Zoroaster: Also the scriptures clearly allude to conjugal relations between his parents, during which evil spirits try to prevent his conception.[1] But according to later tradition, Zoroaster's mother, Dughdova, was a virgin when she conceived Zoroaster by a shaft of light.[2]

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The closest was the golden shower from Zeus, however it is not clear if he simply got through the knot with the shower, then did the deed in person. Pretty weak to try to tie if you ask me though...

The Zoroaster "shaft of light" is a later tradition. (how much later, they don't say, and some claim it's a total myth, and not a later tradition) They admit that ancient texts clearly describe his father and mother having sex.

In other words, someone has to be looking really hard, and they have to ignore evidence to the contrary to make all of these connections, even according to the information you provided.


[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 2/14/2012 8:51a).]

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Tophat you are a misguided fool.

Here is a list of virgin births from the ancient world, most predating christianity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virgin_births

You will notice a common theme that is heavily borrowed...the coming of a messianic figure and a complete shunning of the female birth canal. The idea of a son of God wasn't a new idea, neither was the idea of a virgin birth or a messiah.

In fact, people actively believed those things about many gods and goddesses during that time period. It was used as a method to proselytize the polytheistic cultures of the former hellenistic world and the roman world. Jesus wasn't the first person to be proclaimed the son of God....and the jews were not the first monotheists.

Ever heard of a guy named Akhenaten? The entire idea of yahweh was a rip off from him.

Read and educate yourself before speaking so you look like less of a moron....if that is possible.

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I am the fool? I am still waiting for you to post other religions that talk about the Great Mystery that was hidden from all ages. It is only in the Christian Bible. Which religion besides Christianity has a risen Lord and Savior? The answer Tdallis is none. So who is the fool? You are Tdallis.

You see my godless friend, you can't even explain where life comes from and yet you rant that the one that created life does not exist. Really? Then how did your rebellious face get here?

Some of us get so tired of the leftist, godless, idiots beating up on the Christians and yet they have NOTHING TO OFFER but oblivion! Tdallis you cannot understand a book that was written for believers being that you are an empty! In otherwords dude your 1970 Delphonic stereo ain't got no HDMI connection. Sorry but you need to upgrade. But you won't because you are too arrogant and have been your own god for so long that you don't have room for the God! We get it!

Tdallis I know you avoid the tough ones but please expound to us po ignonant folk were lif cum frum? We waiting oh enlightened one! In other words, Mr. Genius much smarter than us dude, take the most high powered microscope in the world and then dissect a seed (any seed) and please isolate "the life." Can't do it can you Mr. Smarter than everyone else. But, but, but, you have all the answers (except this one).

Respectfully waiting,

Tophat

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The Bible is not a rule book, it is NEWS. There are beneficial rules and stories and advice within it, but those things are not the point. The Bible is a true story about what has been done and it demands a response to that news.

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The Bible can be described many different ways. I don't get the refutation as to the Bible providing the rules to live by. That is why many of us memorize verses so that we can remind ourselves how we ought to walk.

The Christian Bible is the map to how a Christian is to live their life. The words in the Word have power when believed. Where you get that the Bible is news AND NOT RULES escapes me. Maybe you are referring to the Gospel being described as Good News.

There is more to the Bible for believers than the Gospels. There are different periods or administrations for man, i.e. Garden of Eden or Original Paradise, Patriachal or pre law period, The Law period, Christ period when he was here on Earth, The Grace period that began on the day of Pentecost, the trials and tribulation period which is not here and Final Paradise which obviously is not here. The Bible addresses all of these. I think it is easy to over-simplify what the Bible is. May I did over-simplify.

[This message has been edited by TopHat (edited 2/14/2012 9:14a).]

Tophat

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Respectfully waiting,

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Dude, this is pretty ironic. There is nothing respectful about the way you are treating him. You are down in the mud with him, partly from his doing, and partly from your own doing. That is your choice to go there, but there is no need to delude yourself that you are being “respectful” or patient, or kind, or anything. You have made a choice to answer a fool according to his folly, and then you have gone about acting like they do, seeking to slam him so hard, to embarrass, to shut him down…

I think all you have done by that is argue as over the top as they sometimes do, because they are feel they are on weak ground. Then you have helped make him angry, and redirected his anger at you and the way you have treated him. So, again, that is all your choice, but please don’t pretend that you are by any means respectful in your actions. You have gone full out arse hole...

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For a person who claims to love scripture so much, tophat, you exhibit shockingly little grace,compassion and love for others on this board.

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You are right I don't tolerate fools well. I really need to work on that. Patience I suppose.

I definitely get agitated when those that have never been to Rome want to tell the world what the Pope had for breakfast this morning and why it was a bad breakfast as any heathen could have done better. My bad for sure. Thank you for the insight as I will work on that.

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Dude, this is pretty ironic. There is nothing respectful about the way you are treating him. You are down in the mud with him, partly from his doing, and partly from your own doing. That is your choice to go there, but there is no need to delude yourself that you are being �respectful� or patient, or kind, or anything. You have made a choice to answer a fool according to his folly, and then you have gone about acting like they do, seeking to slam him so hard, to embarrass, to shut him down�

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Do you really think Tdallis is treating God or his children or his Word respectfully. I don't. I know that most Christians want to turn the other cheek and get the crap kicked out of themselves but that is a myth perpetuated for centuries. Jesus Christ did not turn the other cheek to the money changers in the Temple as they were selling inferior sacrifices to the people making big profits. Jesus did not turn the other cheek to the Pharisees that were trying to twist his words. I am not turning the other cheek to a cretin like Tdallis that is doing the devils work in trying to convince people that the Bible is of no value to mankind. Tdallis is a duped individual working for the devil whether he realizes it or not. And last but not least the creation, Tdallis, has no clue how the Creator created life. So to put his mouth in at least neutral I would like to hear his pathetic attempt to explain life. If Tdallis is too proud to have a Lord and Savior then he should leave it there and quit attempting to convince others that they should do the same as he does.

End of rant!

[This message has been edited by TopHat (edited 2/14/2012 9:26a).]

Notafraid just got out Notafraid'd!

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You are right I don't tolerate fools well. I really need to work on that. Patience I suppose.

I definitely get agitated when those that have never been to Rome want to tell the world what the Pope had for breakfast this morning and why it was a bad breakfast as any heathen could have done better. My bad for sure. Thank you for the insight as I will work on that.

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Right, well you would do better to say nothing than have an angry outburst, and make the focus all about you, which is what happens. The spectacle becomes you, and your disposition, and actions.

As a person who has issues with anger myself, I would recommend that you first start your day off in prayer, and one of the things you pray for is that you would not be angry, but instead be loving. That you would not be impatient, but instead be patient, that you would not be foolish, but instead be wise.

Then before you engage someone on here, pray for them. Especially those who make you angry, pray for them. I think you will find that it is not often the one you are addressing that is the Lord’s focus, but it is you who He is working in and on as well. So, seeing your own sanctification as the goal here can help you make your own approach a spiritual issue.

I would suggest to you that knowing you are unable to pull off love, patience, kindness, wisdom, etc on your own, and the humble dependence on the Lord is part of what He is teaching you.

End of rant!
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I predict not the end of your Pharisaical behavior.

Top Hat,

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Do you really think Tdallis is treating God or his children or his Word respectfully. I don't

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He is an unbeliever, what do you expect? You are surprised that unrepentant sinners, sin unrepentantently?

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I know that most Christians want to turn the other cheek and get the crap kicked out of themselves but that is a myth perpetuated for centuries.

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My position is you should at least approach with the understanding that those who sin are slaves to sin. One need not act in a belligerent and disrespectful manor just because someone else is. Let their over the top actions be the spectacle in these arguments, not you.

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Jesus Christ did not turn the other cheek to the money changers in the Temple as they were selling inferior sacrifices to the people making big profits. Jesus did not turn the other cheek to the Pharisees that were trying to twist his words.

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There is a huge difference in how Jesus dealt with those who set themselves up as spiritual authorities, and the way he dealt with the common unbeliever.

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I am not turning the other cheek to a cretin like Tdallis that is doing the devils work in trying to convince people that the Bible is of no value to mankind. Tdallis is a duped individual working for the devil whether he realizes it or not. And last but not least the creation, Tdallis, has no clue how the Creator created life. So to put his mouth in at least neutral I would like to hear his pathetic attempt to explain life. If Tdallis is too proud to have a Lord and Savior then he should leave it there and quit attempting to convince others that they should do the same as he does.

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You are pretending like someone is saying you can not address him, or argue against him… No one is saying you can’t do that. It is your acting worse than you had to, actually lowering the conversation lower than you had to. Letting anger, disrespect, and belligerence control you. You have already admitted that it is wrong, and is a problem. So, perhaps it is the Lord’s transformation of you, your actual display of dependence on Him, your recognition that those who don’t know Him need Him to change them rather than expecting them to act rightly in their flesh, and your bearing the fruit of the spirit in the midst of evil that is the more powerful display that the Lord would seek to work out here? Ever thought of that?

It kind of reminds me of when Israel went to the angel of the Lord and asked who’s side he was on, and he said “neither”. Well, if you are going to battle for the Lord, don;t seek to be an independent contractor.


[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 2/14/2012 10:03a).]

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I predict not the end of your Pharisaical behavior.

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One can fall off the horse on either side. Each side refuses to move forward in faith. TopHat takes a condemning view of the world, but is not moving forward in humble dependence on the Lord.(at least not in a NT gospel centered way) Your side is you embrace the world, and refuse to move forward in humble dependence on the Lord. He is the worlds enemy, and you are the worlds friend. He will be condemned by the world, you are at peace with the world. Both positions are based in your own sensibilities and desires rather than biblical Christianity. Not saying this is all the time, but, the tendencies seem obvious from the outside.

[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 2/14/2012 9:58a).]

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I predict not the end of your Pharisaical behavior.

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Come on lighten up. Now I am on Notafraid's list!

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Come on lighten up. Now I am on Notafraid's list!

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You are on my list to encourage you to prayer, and humble dependence on the Lord. That’s my good list! Don’t expect him to lighten up. You will be disappointed. This world will hate you. Remember they killed Christ. Vengeance is the Lord’s. He will judge everything in the end, not you or I now. I would like to get your take on this:

1 Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

I am really focused in more here on his statement “What do I have to do with judging outsiders”? I’m not saying that we can’t discern unbelief or discern if they are hostile to the gospel or not… Of course we are supposed to judge in certain aspects, but what aspect do you think we could see he is not intent on judging here?

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There are a few million leftist black and hispanic Christians in this country (not to mention the white ones), and millions more in South America, Africa, and Asia who would disagree.
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Disagreeing about what?

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Here is what you wrote that prompted the response:

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The other commandment that goes with it is where our leftist friends have the most trouble.

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Now, I can only assume "the other commandment that goes with it" is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.