I shall call him... Fugazi

Donnie Brasco is a heck of a flick.

Oh man I love the Internet - like a crackhead loves da crack....

So neither of you has an answer for why, assuming the Catholic Church is apostate, the Mormons necessarily are the replacement?

Since you believe in worlds without end, couldn't Jesus have just said, "to hell with it; I'm gonna start over on a new planet" when he found his Church in ruin?

Furious -Sorry it took so long to answer you. Let us go back to the beginning of mortal existence. As you know, God the Father knew that Adam and Eve would choose for themselves to partake of the forbidden fruit. A great scriptural evidence of this and why this was part of the "master plan" concerns the scripture that declares that Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Thus, in like manner did God know that his Church would fall into apostasy. It had in each previous dispensation which is why God had to keep calling prophets to reintroduce his gospel, which had been on the earth from the time of Adam. It was removed and the knowledge lost during the periods where the people became until God called new prophets and re-established it. This apostasy was also accounted for in the "Master Plan".

One of the objections raised about the possibility of an apostasy revolves around your question as to why would Christ and the Apostles establish a Church if they knew it was going to go into a state of apostasy. So, a natural question is did they know it, and if they did, what scriptural or historical support is there for this position?

The spiritual blackout did not catch Christ or the Apostles by surprise. Such a question would be tantamount to asking --did the Lord know Eve would partake of the forbidden fruit or did her transgression put a "wrench" in the divine plan? Did Jesus know that Judas would betray him or was he somehow caught off guard? Did the Saviour anticipate his crucifixion or did it unexpectedly come upon him? Of course the Lord knew Eve would partake of the forbidden fruit, that Judas would betray him, and that He himself would be crucified. Likewise he knew the apostasy would occur. Both he and the prophets testified of it. It came as no surprise whatsoever. In this regard it was inevitable. While God did not dictate it or desire it, he did allow for the agency of man and thus accounted for it in his master plan. Justin Martyr AD 110-165) one of the first Church apologists who ultimately gave his life for the cause , understood this principle:

"For what things He (the Saviour) predicted would take place in His name, these we do see being actually accomplished in our sight. For he said, 'many shall come in My name, clothed outwardly in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.' And 'there shall be schisms and heresies.' And 'beware of false prophets'...There are, therefore and there were many, my friends, who, coming forward in the name of Jesus, taught both to speak and act impious and blasphemous things ... So that in consequence of these events, we know that Jesus foreknew what would happen after him."

I hope this helps to explain why God did not just "chuck it all" and start over since it was all part of the "master plan" presented to us in the pre-existence. Since He did not, we know that the Bible speaks of a "restoration" and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints without equivacation declares that it the product of the restoration prophesied throughout the OT and NT.

This is a bit off track, but if Ibmagg is back in any other incarnation, I want groove and derrida to both know that most of us do not judge LDS members by him.

Even though I have disagreed with both derrida and groove, both, for the most part, are gentlemen who try to argue with some intelligence and class.

Ibmagg, or whoever, was an exception to that, and I do not judge the mormon church by him.

All religious movements, and agnostics and athiest, have nuts that make easy targets, but those abberations should not become the standard one uses to judge those movement.

Likewise, I would just like to state that even though Lone Stranger and I have disagreed in the past, that I do not judge the Amish by him.

--lucky for the Amish.

The third resurection of Bob that I know of. Any want to take the over or under on 14 days until the next ban? I'll take the under for a six of Shiner.

I might be more tolerant of Bob/IBM if he posted pictures of his wives.

quote:

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The third resurection of Bob that I know of. Any want to take the over or under on 14 days until the next ban? I'll take the under for a six of Shiner.

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Beretta O/U,
I think Polygamy Porter would be a more appropriate selection, especially in light of the good professor's most recent comment.

Well played 747

I completely agree it is a much more appropriate brew. As far as I know those Czechs never practiced polygamy.