I am by no means an old fart when it comes to posting on here but I do have a question for anyone that feels it is appropriate. My grandson is a Yellow Pot for the upcoming season and he has told me 2 new regulations that I am very concerned about.
1. No crews can show up to an event in the back of a truck. Why would this be a problem for this year considering the lack of parking out there already and the lack of legal ramifications with it.
2. Using an axe handle on someone in the woods will get you immediately escorted off the premises. I am fairly certain I'm not alone in my beliefs on the subject of hazing. I was properly beaten and that made me a better person for it.

I might be completely out of line in this whole thing but I'm wondering if this is taken out of bonfire, what is aggie bonfire going to be like 10 years from now?

Although this may seem too "new army" for some of you, I can completely understand these new regulations in regard to the aspect of the BUSINESS that Student Bonfire is.

Especially because Student Bonfire is constantly under the microscope and has a list of critics and finger waggers, I understand this move to be a step away from any possible way of getting in trouble. Leadership is probably trying to close up any loop holes that could be made into a much bigger deal than what these things actually are--or that the organization could be held accountable. Maybe not so much with riding in the back of trucks, although it is dangerous regardless of the legality, but moreso the hazing aspect.

Surely any reasonable person can understand why beating the hell out of someone's rear with an axe handle could be seen as hazing, or cruel. I hardly believe that you are a "better person" because of it, it's just another way to fit in or show your dedication. You know what else shows those things? Hard work and pulling your weight.

If beating your "children" is that big of a deal to the general you, do it during pass down or on your own time. Not on Student Bonfire's time, holding them accountable.

That's my suggestion.

The truck rule actually held over from Bonfire in the 90's after a student was killed when the truck he was riding in the back of left the pavement...it is not new to Student Bonfire.

The handling rule is just good sense...expecially with all of the lawsuits involving hazing across the US and also just here in Aggieland.

Why are these just now being instituted?

I agree w/you Doss 08, the most efficient ways of getting people out there is by the truck load. i know a lot guys that would not have gone out my year if it wasn't for me being able to provide the ride.

as far as the beatings go, well, i can understand not doing it in public. i agree it makes you a better person but i don't believe other dorms should witness other dorms.

First off, these are not newly established rules. TR is right that the no back-of-trucks rule dates back to the mid-90's after a cut participant was killed in a traffic accident on the way back from cut. While carpooling is a great idea, and one that is supported, there is just A LOT more risk involved with doing so back in the open bed of a pick-up. So hopefully the fact that SB is trying to minimize risk will not put too many people off.

As for the axe-handling thing, while that may be a part of Bonfire's past, and may seem to many as relatively harmless and "good bull," the fact of the matter is that such behavior is now legally defined as hazing and is considered illegal. In recent years several students have gotten in trouble with both University and local officials for doing that very thing, e.g. the Cav. SB can not tolerate any illegal activity taking place on site, and thus the reason anyone caught engaging in such activity will be escorted from the property.

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TR is right that the no back-of-trucks rule dates back to the mid-90's

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But it seems this is the first time in a while that this rule will be enforced.

I personally know that it was enforced last year...

and I'm pretty darn sure it was enforced the year before.

Good to hear

bonfires 03-06 i distinctly remember showing up as well as seeing participants show up in beds of pickups. i really wish i wasn't hearing about people being denied the experience of bonfire while being within the limits of the law, just for being efficient. but you're right...i'm sure past bonfire leaders felt like they were on the same level as everyone else by participating in hazing. we're all just one big happy leadership group out there. fish doesn't-have-a-clue fits right in with brownpot bob that's been there for 3+ years. i understand the legal issues here, and agree with the old walton man....it should be kept withing the dorms. however, last i checked, bonfire has never been and will never be a BUSINESS. if it has been or is being regarded as such i've got some killer overtime checks, expense account reimbursements, and mileage payments coming my way. i also don't spend anymore than an hour or two a semester on here, so this is about all i have to say on the matter and all i care to hear. thanks and gig 'em ags.

sorry to be on a soapbox here, but i was hazed numerous times by university officials in my 4 years at a&m. check out a&m's official definition of hazing. by rule, exams...study sessions...tutorials..fall under that massive umbrella. unwanted physical and emotional strain caused by tests and projects in order to "fit in" and "be a part" of this huge organization...oh, what're they calling it now.....oh yeah, the association of former students. and in response to LMNOQ's post, bonfire is built by EVERYONE pulling their weight and working hard...those people still need to be told where to go and what to do by people that know what's going on. next time you decide to throw in your two cents, make sure to at least SOUND like you know what you're talking about

I think that instead of looking at the situation from the point of "Why wasn't this done then", it could be taken as "I'm glad it is taken care of now." I believe that the leadership is being very proactive in risk assessment and prevention. To the handling in the woods issue: Why do it in the woods? The more time you swing on someones butt, the less time you are swinging on a tree. Makes sense to get the most efficiency out of the crew doesnt it?

What is popular is not always right
What is right is not always popular

I also know for a fact that the truck real has not been enforced in the past two years... My fish year I rode in the back of a truck to and from cut as well as to and from stack... And my pisshead year we had the fish in the back of a pick up... I understand the fact that it is a safety issue but don't say something was enforced when it wasn't...


O and the last time I checked I knew going into that there would be the chance of being "hazed" or receiving motivation as I've heard it been termed and if you are to afraid of the heat then stay out of the kitchen...


And Mr. bh07 was right when he said "bonfire is built by EVERYONE pulling their weight and working hard"... If it wasn't for that then the tradition would just fade away...

maybe clarification of the term "enforced" is needed...

Just because you were not caught does not mean the rule was not enforced.

When you are driving down highway 6 at 83 miles per hour and do not get a ticket for speeding it does not mean that the speed limit is not being enforced. It simply means you got lucky. You either did not cross paths with an enforcement officer or, if you did, they had more pressing matters to tend to.

Seeing how they had upper leadership people directing people where to park and several crews had people riding in the back of trucks and no one was turned away...


And as for the analogy you tried to make... That was like comparing apples to oranges... You didn't prove a point

How strictly or not the rule was enforced in past years really is a moot point. The fact of the matter is that the rule is not new and was a part of on-campus bonfire and the reason for it was and is clear. The rule is in place to minimize risk which anyone who is legitimately concerned with the well-being of all participants should appreciate. This year's upper leadership has made it clear to the yellowpots and their crews that riding to site in the back of pick-up trucks is not going to be allowed, and when you stop and seriously consider the reason for the rule, there really is no justifiable reason for disagreeing with it.

So let's just all agree to do our best to be safe out there this year and carpool in vehicles where all passengers are secured in case of accident. Build the hell, Ags!

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And as for the analogy you tried to make... That was like comparing apples to oranges... You didn't prove a point

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In case you're not familiar with rebel, he quite often makes piss poor analogies to try and prove whatever point he's trying to make, don't let this shock you.

I can vouche for the others. For the 2 years that I participated, people rode in the back of my truck, and no rebel, it wasn't because we weren't caught...we did it every week. Here's to hoping they stand by and enforce their policies this year so nobody gets injured.

edit: nevermind.

[This message has been edited by WH08PsyJayci (edited 9/18/2007 9:41a).]

speeding = illegal on the highway

riding in the back of a pickup = illegal when involved in any Student Bonfire activity

seems like some people don't know a valid analogy.

Backs of Trucks: Yes it is a carry over from the 90s. I don't believe it was enforced last year as I routinely mentioned it to the SRs last year about the kids in the trucks I was passing and the potential liability there. However, the previous year, when we cut in Carlos, it was enforced somewhat. Albeit rather loosely. What I saw as being "enforced" was that they couldn't come through the gate in the back of a truck and so several got out and walked in. Not really a solution either. It sucks that this may prevent some from coming, but given the distance traveled to get to cut site, the potential speeds, the roads, and the vast majority of clueless drivers on the roads these days, this policy makes sense. At 70mph, a hard slam on the brakes because bob-the-farmer or cellphone-talking-sally pulled out in front of you could send passengers in the back flying, even worse it you hit them.

Hazing: This has been a policy all along. I believe if you look back and find old posts here and elsewhere that you will find various leaders stating that this is not condoned by SB. It was suppressed in the 80s/90s when the hazing laws went into effect. I believe when SB (any incarnation) started back up, a lot of the traditions they brought in were based on whatever they could find on the subject of Bonfire and had very little input from the older generation to temper that at all. So, the handling and other stuff popped back up. I know that, as long as I have been out there, whenever we see someone about to do it, they are stopped. No, that doesn't mean that every instance is stopped or that it doesn't happen. However, as far as SB is concerned, hazing is against the law and won't be tolerated.

As this SB progresses and grows, there may be other things that have to be addressed just for the sake of protecting the organization so that it may continue.


Scott Coker '92

[This message has been edited by COKEMAN (edited 9/18/2007 11:38a).]

Ok yes speeding is illegal...

However since there are no actual laws in bonfire because you can't make laws, riding in the back of a truck is not illegal, it's is however breaking a rule that has not been enforced in the past.

Don't get me wrong the rule makes sense to me I'm not doubting that, but it is a hell of alot easier to drive a truck on a dirt road and off road than it is a 4 door car...

[This message has been edited by aggiehalfling (edited 9/18/2007 4:18p).]

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1. No crews can show up to an event in the back of a truck. Why would this be a problem for this year considering the lack of parking out there already and the lack of legal ramifications with it.

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This was a rule instituted in 1997 after Aston lost Greg White and two others were in the hospital for months. That's why it's a problem.

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2. Using an axe handle on someone in the woods will get you immediately escorted off the premises. I am fairly certain I'm not alone in my beliefs on the subject of hazing. I was properly beaten and that made me a better person for it.

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This crap shouldn't be going on at all and much less so ON SITE. I really wonder sometimes if you guys realize the scrutiny that you're under. If they're keeping this from happening they're doing the RIGHT thing as far as the continuation of Bonfire goes.

BTW, I agree with Cokeman. While we were nothing to emulate, if people are getting axhandled in the woods I think you guys have gotten the wrong impression of how often that took place. Don't try to be us.

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.

[This message has been edited by NoACDamnit (edited 9/20/2007 3:29a).]

NOAC, just reading those last few words in your post made me smile a little bit. You may not have meant it in such a way, but that's so appropriate.

It seems like current bonfire is in a situation sometimes where they don't know who they are...whether they're a new fire making right the previous wrongs, or if they're carrying on that very same legacy.

Anyways...I just think that's an interesting thing to think about. An identity issue of sorts...

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what is aggie bonfire going to be like 10 years from now?

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I think the better question is: What was it like 6-7 years ago?

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I think the better question is: What was it like 6-7 years ago?

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Very good point

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Surely any reasonable person can understand why beating the hell out of someone's rear with an axe handle could be seen as hazing, or cruel. I hardly believe that you are a "better person" because of it, it's just another way to fit in or show your dedication. You know what else shows those things? Hard work and pulling your weight.

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You both missed the point that i was trying to make. Reread and report back.

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next time you decide to throw in your two cents, make sure to at least SOUND like you know what you're talking about

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my qualifications on the matter rival yours, brut.

[This message has been edited by Ellemenoquo (edited 9/20/2007 2:12p).]

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unwanted physical and emotional strain caused by tests and projects in order to "fit in" and "be a part" of this huge organization

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Are you dumb or did you not realize that this is what you came to college for? If you see getting knocked around (sometimes in other places than your ass) by an axe handle and being evaluated through testing as one in the same...I'm really concerned for many reasons.

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What was it like 6-7 years ago?

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This shouldn't matter. Aside from the fact that the current crop seems to have gotten it wrong, the hazing isn't something anyone should be attempting to copy.

This needs to be about going forward, not looking to the past. While not contributing to the collapse, we did a lot of things that were downright idiotic. There's no reason to try to bring those things back.

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.

These rules are correct rules, correctly stated, and I am sure they will be correctly enforced.

It is disappointing that they HAD to be stated, and not just for PR's sake. By some of your reactions, it seems like you were under the impression that these are revolutionary ideas.

In retrospect, I wish I had said at some point that butts had to be in seats. We all preach that Bonfire is brotherhood, camaraderie and a willingness to do anything for your friends and family in what can be a very dangerous undertaking. And that is ignoring the 60-70 mph trip there. What's so dammed challenging about taking a Suburban then?

And hazing. Good lord, that doesn't even deserve attention. That's like Bonfire making a rule that

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All participants must, at regular intervals, expel and take in air through either nose or mouth at a pace befitting intensity and duration of exhertion.

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No ****ing **it. We all need to ask why this even had to be stated? Good on Bonfire. Proud of ya'll as always. BTHOB and Gig 'Em.

DION '03
dionInc Consulting
www.oldarmysupplyco.com
Texas Aggie Grey 03-04

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What's so dammed challenging about taking a Suburban then

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How many college student are driving suburbans these days?

I went to Load in a suburban multiple times. That's the nice thing about them - you don't need a LOT of them.

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Harry Potter just like the Smurfs and many other things are simply witchcraft made G Rated on the outside but underlying it is still witchcraft and is against the will of God.

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How many college student are driving suburbans these days?

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Or I guess we could just argue semantics.

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This shouldn't matter. Aside from the fact that the current crop seems to have gotten it wrong, the hazing isn't something anyone should be attempting to copy.

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I think you completely inverted the meaning of my post.

"6-7 years ago" = 2001 and 2000. I.e., soon after the collapse and with an uncertain future for Bonfire. Not much of an era of complacency. That's why UP was able to impose rules like the alcohol ban.

yes...i apparently am a f***ing idiot. the Bachelor's degree from Texas A&M hanging on my wall says so, as does my acceptance letter to grad school. just seems like so many people are comparing apples to oranges on here...i just figured i'd try to make a little more sense. in light of past postings, i'd say i got pretty close to the average IQ score on this topic.

y'all enjoy hashing this stuff out...i'm going to get back the whole idea of trying to have fun at bonfire. seems like some of the air has been taken out of those sails though. gig 'em ags and build the hell