tu politics keeps us from having Campus Bonfire

5,667 Views | 128 Replies | Last: 18 yr ago by Keegan99
sharklady00
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You aren't as obvious about the "hopes" you have for improvements. That and you lose all credibility when the name calling begins.

Given that you are "for" Bonfire, it would be nice to see more of your "hopes" since we all know what the flaws are. Repeating them as often as possible doesn't exactly make the situation better...which is what those who are "for" Bonfire are striving for.


SquareOne07
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I'm sorry I'm not as vocal and optimistic as you are.

Please...
futureag11
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That is crap, how can we fix it???
SquareOne07
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fix what? Those dastardly lawyers out in Austin who have only hopes of ruining anything good we have? I hate those tsip lawyers always holding us down! They DO keep us from having Bonfire!!1 GAR!!

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 11/19/2006 9:43a).]
GhostRider76
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We've been having a bonfire at the ranch and I know a few Ags who do the same...but it's not the same...bring it back...
jfargason
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Very interesting discussion you young folks have been having for the past few weeks.

I did not graduate from A & M, but I was raised an Aggie fan. My Dad was Class of '42 (the REAL Old Army), and I am now the proud Aggie Mom of 3 Former Students.

I attended every Bonfire since I was a child until 1999 and I was there that week for all the memorial services.

I, too, have visited with families who lost children and the ones I talked to indicated that although they hope no other child is ever injured, they are not against bringing Bonfire back "if it can be done safely."

This makes sense to me . . . when there is an airplane crash and passengers are killed, the FAA does not end commercial air travel. They study the accident, identify the problem, and take steps to correct it. They then allow the traveling public to make a decision whether they voluntarily desire to fly again.

You students have been writing back and forth to each other about what is stopping Bonfire from coming back. Some of your information is correct. Some is spoken strictly out of uninformed emotion. Please allow me to tell you a couple of things.

Bonfire was a tremendous experience for the entire student body. For those who physically worked on it, there will never be another experience like it in their lifetime. Everyone felt a part of something bigger than themselves. It was a common goal and cooperation was the key. Regs and non-regs alike worked side by side. Many friendships were made with students you would otherwise never cross paths with.

But immediately after Bonfire fell, Bowen had a meeting with the faculty and the next morning 72% of the faculty & administration voted that Bonfire should cease immediately and forever. The profs hated it because the students devoted so much time to it and regularly either missed class or slept through it. The administration had been looking for years to end it.

Secondly, you folks keep writing that politics in Austin has some say in the matter. Don't know what you base that statement on, but I have been waiting for you to make another point that no one has mentioned.

One of the young people who died that night has a family member who is an attorney. That person stated several times that he would do everything in his power to prevent Bonfire from ever burning again. This was qoted in the Houston Chronicle, Dallas Morning News, Austin American Statesman, etc. If you question this, go back to the archives of the days following the tragedy and read it for yourself. His comment was that by filing motions and appeals he could keep it tied up in court for years and years. This is something the administration has not forgotten.

As you know, lawsuits are still awaiting court dates. No administration (no matter who is the president) is going to sanction an A & M sponsored event when lawsuits are pending. The only hope you kids have for ever getting approval for the return of Bonfire is once all legal proceedings are complete.

And as much as I love A & M and miss Bonfire myself, I predict this will never happen. The faculty is even less enthusiastic now than it was in 1999 . . . President Gates has made a concerted effort to diversify the faculty and that doesn't include many former Aggies as professors. As much as the students may want it, the administration does not, and I do not think it will ever return on campus.

The most you can hope for is to continue the off campus one to the best of your ability. It is better than nothing.

Don't mean to be negative about this or sound like I have all the answers. Just wanted to give you a little more information from someone who was there during those dark days.

Thanks for listening and Gig em!
SquareOne07
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Good post and from a person who seems to have a very realistic and objective point of view. It's good to see things for what they are...

The only problem I have with comparisons dealing with plane accidents and such is that air travel in this country is necessary. Bonfire, though it meant tremendous things to A&M, is not...as indicated by us keepin on...so while I can understand while some people make that comparison in the first place, it really isn't valid at all.

Very good post though.
jfargason
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Thanks for reading and thanks for the kind reply. I only make the comparison to air travel to make the point that both activities (flying and Bonfire) are voluntary. No one was ever forced to participate in cutting, transporting or stacking the logs. As many students as there were who did work on Bonfire, many more did not. My two daughters never cut or stacked logs, but they watched the progress daily and supported the guys who were giving it their all.

Not to diminish the loss of the 12 families, but I have always been puzzled how you can sue over a voluntary action. Each kid out there was there by their own choice. If a bus jumps the curb on Coke Street and kills 12 students waiting at a bus stop, will the University end all on campus bus service forever?

Just a thought . . . BTHO tu!
TexasRebel
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quote:
The only problem I have with comparisons dealing with plane accidents and such is that air travel in this country is necessary. Bonfire, though it meant tremendous things to A&M, is not


This can go two ways...

Air travel is not necessary...any place that can be flown to can also be driven to, walked to, ran to, floated to, or traveled to by some other means...

also...Bonfire is necessary to any Fightin' Texas Aggie.
SquareOne07
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No. Air travel is necessary.

No. Bonfire is not a requirement to being an Aggie.
Keegan99
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quote:
No. Air travel is necessary.


Then how does John Madden survive?!
SquareOne07
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John Madden defies all reason and explanation.
TexasRebel
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quote:
Bonfire is necessary to any Fightin' Texas Aggie.


quote:
No. Bonfire is not a requirement to being an Aggie.


Lets play a game shall we?

how did Square change my sentence around in order to argue with it?

Answer: the "be" verb was nowhere in my sentence...correctly or incorrectly used.

Bonfire is undeniably part of the Texas Aggie Spirit. Any true Texas Aggie knows Bonfire and, no matter if they participate or not, if they like it or not...Bonfire is a part of their lives, forever.
SquareOne07
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?

I don't think Bonfire is a huge deal to every Aggie, especially these days unfortunately. Like it's been said before, some people don't even know that there's still one off campus and some people haven't even been to the memorial. Making a statement like that would be like making the same statement about Muster or Silver Taps or even Football games...and there's still people out there who couldn't really give you much on any or all three of those.
TexasRebel
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quote:
and there's still people out there who couldn't really give you much on any or all three of those.


which is why Gates, 20/20, and forced diversity have not been good for Texas A&M. If folks wanted to go to a school like all the rest they would just go to one of them instead of applying here.
Keegan99
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Allow me to interject - lumping a hyperpopular President like Gates, an initiative like V2020, and "forced diversity" (whatever that means) into a Bonfire discussion is not a winning strategy.

If Gates wanted to, he could have brought the hammer down on a lot of ASB activities. Instead, he was largely passively indifferent, and that was to ASB's benefit.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/21/2006 2:18a).]
SquareOne07
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"forced diversity" doesn't even make sense.

And Bonfire is not what makes A&M unique, sorry. There are plenty of other great and awesome reasons for people to come here and why this school is so much better than any other besides Bonfire.


quote:
which is why Gates, 20/20, and forced diversity have not been good for Texas A&M.


You're in the minority on this one, no doubt. Unless you're chummy with Aftermath, then you're good to go!

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 11/21/2006 2:23a).]
TexasRebel
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well...

...Gates is to blame for Vision 20/20...

...V 20/20 is to blame for the planned destruction of Northside...and for bringing in a mass of students that could care less if they were an Aggie, a Bear, a Longhorn, a Hornedfrog...(or a Husker or a Gator for that matter)...

...forced diversity is just a more straight forward label for part of Vision 20/20. Forcing diversity upon a campus by forcing students that didn't want to be here onto a campus that is generally hostile to those that are not similar...

now before anybody flies off of (or pulls out) the handle...this has nothing to do with race, religion or any other non-PC BS. It is about enrolling at Texas A&M because Texas A&M is where you wanted to go and a Texas Aggie is what you wanted to be...not because some department enticed you here so they could claim some status on a form and get a few extra bucks.
SquareOne07
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Ha. Thank you for that enlightening bit.

quote:
Gates is to blame for Vision 20/20

quote:
planned destruction of Northside

quote:
Forcing diversity upon a campus by forcing students that didn't want to be here onto a campus that is generally hostile to those that are not similar


With regard to that last one, there's no WAY anybody that looks or believes differently from you could want to go to A&M for the education is there? Maybe not everybody wants to be a Texas Aggie in the same sense as you do, maybe some people just want to go to a great school and get a great education.

On that note, it's off to bed, that was a good laugh though, thank you.
TexasRebel
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quote:
there's no WAY anybody that looks or believes differently from you could want to go to A&M for the education is there? Maybe not everybody wants to be a Texas Aggie in the same sense as you do, maybe some people just want to go to a great school and get a great education.


I never said any of that...

As it sits now, A&M is basically recruiting and baiting people who would probably have chosen another school, just to get that "diversity checkmark" that a few of the admin hold so dear.

"a hundred and two, a hundred and three...
F- diversity I like the way it used to be..."
SquareOne07
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How is it that you know so much about who A&M is recruiting anyways?
69huslinone
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Because many of us older guys give up our weekends, and evenings to recruit for the University that we love.

Forty-one years ago, when I first stepped on campus, the difference between A&M and other schools was massive. Many of those who went thru those years on the A&M campus succeeded as individuals and leaders, including Rick Perry, the current commanding general of the Air Force, the head ranger of the largest Federal Park in California, and others too numerous to name. The glue that made us one was Bonfire. We built it not just to the probably safer 45-60 feet tall that it is now, but we topped out at 101 feet, five tiers into the sky. We built with logs, large ones, and used cables, not bailing wire. We had a compact surface that had been used for over thirty years not a new site with a sloping angle to it. We had the support of the administration, not its opposition.

This university just raised over a billion dollars for new construction in less than three years. We could well afford to have a consulting engineering firm to be the safety officers, and use a concrete basin to stack the logs. We could have an engineering plan that specified the materials to be used, size of logs, cables, and set up.

But the Bonfire needs to be cut and loaded and stacked and built by students because it represents the students burning desire as a unit, a group, a university to excel. Yes to beat tu, but looking back, what it built was Aggie Spirit.

Yes, the off-campus group is great, and I applaud them for their continuation of the tradition.

But every student that wants to be part of this University and to be one of those unique people, a dyed in the wool never say die Aggie would support a Bonfire, even if it required insurance, legal waivers, engineering plans, and professional safety officers who could remove any person acting in an unsafe manner.

Did the University fail to properly supervise the Bonfire. Yes, that is clear. Could we end up paying money for that oversite, yes indeed.

But no amount of money is worth killing the university to replace it with a cookie cutter clone of tu, Berkley, Wisconsin, or any other liberal habitate of hippydome. We have a purpose, a reason, a calling to build leaders, in business, and for the military.

If we can and have raised a billion dollars, then by God, we can raise whatever it takes to settle these piss ant suits, and move on and build us the best built, engineered, and safe Bonfires that have ever been built. It requires three things.

Desire. Determination. Money.

We have all three. What are we waiting for.
COKEMAN
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Square, don't pick apart the air travel/Bonfire comparison too much. You used it a few times in all the Tues v Sat Burn night arguements.

Scott Coker '92
SquareOne07
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Refresh me.

I can't see myself making the comparison that because air travel wasn't halted after 9/11, Bonfire should not have been halted following 11/18. Or anything of the sort. The two are clearly different.
Keegan99
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quote:

As it sits now, A&M is basically recruiting and baiting people who would probably have chosen another school, just to get that "diversity checkmark" that a few of the admin hold so dear.


They hold it dear because if A&M doesn't improve in that area, it will be political - and financial - suicide in the legislature.


From another perspective... Texas will be a state with a majority hispanic population in our lifetime. I'd like for A&M to be on the forefront in educating the hispanic leaders of tomorrow so that A&M will continue to flourish as the demographics of the state change.

In 2040, I don't want the hispanic Governor to turn to the hispanic Lt. Governor and say "¿Por qué debemos cuidar sobre A&M?"
 
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