http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/671138.html

Uhhhhhhh......

It's going to get ugly. And the never ending lawsuits will continue.

This is the death of sanctioned bonfire. No administrator will dare officially recognize it again.

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Similar lawsuits in the federal courts have been tossed out because the federal law regarding a state created danger was not established at the time of the bonfire incident. The federal judge also wrote there was no evidence that the officials acted with "deliberate indifference."

Last year the U.S. Supreme Court declined to take up the case.

In 2004, the student leaders of the bonfire, or "red pots," settled out of court for about $6 million, said Keith. The money came from the homeowner policies of the defendants' parents.

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Maybe the rest will settle and it will all end sooner?

This is just one more example that Aggie Spirit is DEAD. I could care less if the victims families filed suit against the university; but when Aggies sue Aggies, that crosses the line. What possible good id accomplished when the victims parents sue the Red Pots and their families have to use their home owners insurance policies to settle? Gig'em

I think the sentiment that Bonfire will never be resurrected is correct if this ruling is upheld. I guess I don't understand why they feel the need to sue the individuals - and I didn't even know they sued the Red Pots??? Jeez.

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I guess I don't understand why they feel the need to sue the individuals - and I didn't even know they sued the Red Pots??? Jeez.

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I spoke with one of the university's attorneys several years ago. I asked him what the plaintiffs were after. He gave a simple answer.

"Money."

The flaw in our thinking is this belief that Aggies are a separate breed that would resist the selfish impulses that motivate everyone else.

We're not.

[This message has been edited by WPAG (edited 5/30/2008 10:56a).]

As it dissapoints me, I try to imagine what the parents are going through.

You have to figure that most aren't Aggies so "Aggies suing Aggies" is not applicable.

If something my son or daughter loves so much took their life, I'd be really torn. You're missing the most special person(s) in your life and I would guess something has to replace them (in theory). So that would be money, I guess.

I suppose there is also the factor of vengeance, uh, excuse me, justice--yes, that's a better word. If you've suffered the loss of a child, suing the pants off of an administrator might make you feel, to a limited extent, that justice is being pursued. Make him feel insecure in his retirement, and perhaps he'll hurt also, to a lesser but certain degree.

The opportunity to collect the big bucks disappeared when the 5th Circuit affirmed A&M's sovereign immunity. They can't tap our tax money.

All the plaintiffs can go after now are the personal assets of Bowen, Sutherland, Hopgood, Kibler, Thompson, et al. Considering the division of receipts, and the lawyers' cut of the proceeds, that won't amount to much.

I suppose that might bring some sense of closure, such as those families express when they see the perpetrator strapped down to that gurney in Huntsville.

I hope that's not being too blunt, but almost nine years of litigation frazzles everybody. My heart really goes out to the six families that didn't sue.

(Edit: There was, at one time at least, the legitimate concern of those injured. They had all of their immediate and ongoing medical expenses met by the university but felt trepidation about medical problems that might arise in the future as long-term effects of their injuries surface. I can't fault their pursuit of some understanding in this regard, as I understand they were at an impasse with the university on this front. I don't know whether there has been a resolution of these concerns, but today's Eagle said three injured victims were among the plaintiffs.)

[This message has been edited by WPAG (edited 5/30/2008 12:11p).]

The scent of blood will bring lawyers out of the woodwork. You got to love it.

This is sad. I am sure that all of the families miss their children.

Money won't bring them back... nothing will.

I know some of the guys that are a part of this lawsuit (we were all Moses RAB's if that gives you a clue which ones I am talking about), and for them this is not about money. It's about getting the University to live up to the promises they made years ago. You guys can insult them if you wish, but know that the ones I know want Bonfire to come back just as much you do.

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and for them this is not about money. It's about getting the University to live up to the promises they made years ago.

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Rocag,

How will tapping the personal assets and retirement income of Bowen and Sutherland--or even the coffers H.B. Zachary company--make the university live up to its commitments?

While not privy to the details, I generally understand the concern of those injured. They want assurances that future medical issues that arise as a long-term consequence of what happened that night will be paid completely and expeditiously. The university, as a state agency, is reluctant to sign off on a blank check. It would rather say, "Send us the bills and we'll evaluate and pay them after we've done due diligence regarding each claim."

The plaintiffs are naturally uneasy about that. What if, twenty years down the road, some administrator denies a claim on the basis that it's the result of general aging and not injuries sustained at the Bonfire? Who arbitrates that dispute twenty years down the road?

But this litigation can't accomplish that end. Since the state's sovereign immunity was upheld by the Fifth Circuit, all the state court can do is award a specific dollar amount from the assets of the named defendants. In the continuing litigation, the university and the taxpayers of the State of Texas are not on the hook.

You are free to debunk this contention by providing specifics that are beyond what we've discussed here. But from what I see, it's still all about money--but not really a lot of money.

[This message has been edited by WPAG (edited 5/31/2008 7:45a).]

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I could care less if the victims families filed suit against the university; but when Aggies sue Aggies, that crosses the line.

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You miss the whole point.

If the University had not tried to hide behind immumity and accepted their share of the responsibility for the accident, then most likely the students would not have been sued.

Blame the University, not the parents.

This is a very tricky situation. While there was never any intentional harm or neglect on behalf of the university, its administrators, or its student leaders, there were victims here. The 12 that died and numerous others that suffered severe injuries deserve to be taken care of by their Aggie family.

I think that as Aggies, it is our job to take care of our own. I think that the university should be making sure that each of the affected students/families, has enough money to take care of themselves and Ill go so far as to say they should receive some additional compensation for their loss. I am not aware of what the financial arrangements are/have been between the students/families and the university, but if they arent getting taken care of then I think they have no choice but to sue someone. However, if the University has provided sufficient funds to the families, then what is going on now is no longer about getting what they need but more about punishing someone.

Id like to get more information on this though. What exactly is it the families requested that the University did not do to cause them to sue? Anything aside from money? And what kind of financial support has the university provided these families (as a result of the legal action or otherwise) to date?

people seem to be tossing around blame in this situation way more than I would think it should be. Bonfire is a tradition that is i believe 100 years old in a year or two, many have been injured and many have been proud to come away from that stack with a scar or limp. If i had been one of the Twelve, god bless them all, i would rather that beautiful and fitting memorial be torn down and a bonfire burn in memoriam on that spot than have it removed from campus and its students forever. And as for blaming the university... it was posted that this needed to be addressed by the aggie family, and that the University needed to step up.

What is the univerity other than the great aggies that inhabit it and attend its classes. We, as aggies, are the aggie family and we are this University. Why have students, past and present, not come together to adress these issues.

This tragedy was a blow to the aggie family as a whole and should be adressed as such


I also wondered how many were aware that the leading lawyers in the case from the parents were a Baylor grad and a teasip

[This message has been edited by BQT2012 (edited 6/3/2008 10:42p).]

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I also wondered how many were aware that the leading lawyers in the case from the parents were a Baylor grad and a teasip

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Give me a f'in break.

Not the forum for that kind of crap.

Well if these lawsuits do go through, and the Red Pots are sued, I think as a community every one and anyone who is involved with bonfire in any such way should come together and support the 12 that have fallen, and to the many that were injured. If they want compensation for their loss Aggies as a whole should pitch in and increase the already great fund that has been set up. Here is some information I gathered from bonfire.tamu.edu

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Contributors can choose between two funds: a Bonfire Relief Fund and a Bonfire Memorial Endowed Fund. The Bonfire Relief Fund, managed by The Association of Former Students, will assist families with expenses incurred as a result of the accident. The Bonfire Memorial Endowed Fund, managed by the Texas A&M Foundation, will fund permanent recognition of those who died in the accident.

Bonfire Relief Fund gifts can be sent to The Association of Former Students, 505 george Bush Drive, College Station, Texas, 77840-2918. Donors should write "Bonfire Relief Fund" on their checks. Donors also can make gifts through Bank One, Texas, N.A. Gifts made through Bank One should indicate bank routing number 111000614 and account number 1583582273. For more information, contact Association Director of Fund Raising Barabara Kasper at 979-845-8161 or 800-392-2096.

Bonfire Memorial Fund gifts can be sent to the Texas A&M Foundation, 401 George Bush Drive, College Station, Texas, 77840-2811. Donors should write "Bonfire Memorial Fund" on their checks. Also, any donor honoring a specific student should include the student's name on the check. For more information, contact Foundation College Programs Director Durwood Lewis at 979-845-8161 or 800-392-3310.

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Sorry, and it wouldn't surprise me to know some involved saw this, this is not what I believe your children would have wanted, and I can't believe those that where injured are going to continue to destroy the traditions....


If I were to die on the stack, toss my pot into next years fire and burn it....




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Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A Whoop!!!.
= texags

As someone who has worked at a personal injury firm, for 95% of clients it's ONLY about getting the big pay day. Most end up disappointed.

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i bet some parents who are suing never had a good relationship with their child but now are the first in the lottery line.

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Whoever you are...you are a huge dewshbag for saying this.

It's unfortunate that regardless of what the pursuing families claim, it's always going to be seen as a money grab. Honestly, nobody can tell their true intentions. If all the money gained from such actions was promised to be donated to the university in the form of annual scholarships, I think that might ease some concerns. But as others have mentioned, it's been almost 10 years, money is never going to bring them back. Aggies like to think of themselves as being different, but unfortunately marriages and funerals tend to bring out the worst in families -- including the Aggie family.

However, I think one is sorely misguided if they think Bowen, Southerland, et al. don't feel horrible that the worst campus tragedy happened on their watch.

Also, you can imagine the kind of reaction students would have had if in 1999, President Bowen announced that he was going to cancel bonfire because the risks were too dangerous in his opinion to continue to do it safely. It's just like all the people running around blaming Bush for not paying attention to pre-9/11 intelligence --- it makes sense after the fact.

[This message has been edited by Hawk2007 (edited 6/10/2008 11:09a).]

Call me a dewshbag if you want. Its the truth. I never said all.

I said that there probably are some estranged parents or parents who rarely talk to their kids who suddenly now is the ultra caring parent when the lottery hits.

emergent_sea, are you talking about parents suing over accidents in general or specifically about this case? There's a limited number of lawsuits and its a pretty wild accusation to say that the situation you describe is "probable".

I worked loosely with a handful of the parents in 2000 & 2001 and the situation Rocag described is more or less what I experienced as well. I wasn't involved enough to know many of the details, but the parents had very specific grievances with what they were promised and the way that they were being treated by the university.

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It's about getting the University to live up to the promises they made years ago. You guys can insult them if you wish, but know that the ones I know want Bonfire to come back just as much you do.

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The irony is that making "the University" (now university officials instead of the institution itself) pony up will also impede Bonfire from ever being university sanctioned again. State-created danger aside, what university official would have their name associated with it?

I can't speak for the plaintiffs, but it were me, I could see myself becoming over-run with the desire for retribution with endless court fights. I believe if an individual is responsible, he or she will get theirs in the end.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the sentiment. People lie every day, but it's usually a waste of breath to try to get them to own up. Even if they get their full day in court, I agree with an above poster that pointed out how little the plaintiffs will acutally benefit from the monetary damages. At some point I could see that it would be important to get closure and to bury the hatchet. Years of court cases spell unending drama.

[This message has been edited by northsidegreek06 (edited 6/12/2008 3:31p).]

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ut know that the ones I know want Bonfire to come back just as much you do.

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Then stop trying to collect punitive damages from an administration that knows, and admits, it was wrong. If you really want bonfire back, in any form of the tradition, they would drop these suits now and stop this non-sense.

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Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A Whoop!!!.
= texags

yeah, good call. Forget about your problems, your tragedy, the loss of your child...there are people who want to have a Bonfire!

Get real.

He's the one making the claim that plaintiffs in punitive disputes want bonfire back. If they win these suits, no there will never be another bonfire.


I didn't tell them to forget about there tragedy, none of us have. I said drop the demand for monetary damage awards and accept the responsibility already taken by the university. But thank you captain sanctimonious for your input.

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A Whoop!!!.
= texags

who are you or anybody else to ask that the families drop their demands for punitive damages?

$$$$$$$$.

Suing another person's family is all about $$$$. I would be scared to be part of bonfire b/c i could be sued.

Ridiculous

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who are you or anybody else to ask that the families drop their demands for punitive damages?

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How much punishment do you think they'll be able to inflict? The joy of seeing the former president, dean of students, bonfire adviser, corps of cadets commandant, and others make a claim against their personal liability insurance is about all they'll receive.

Hey, I'm all for suing the pants off of greedy corporations that take a cavalier attitude toward safety. But we already know Texas A&M and the State of Texas won't pay out one more dime than the state liability cap provides.

This is all about compensating the Mr. Keith.

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But we already know Texas A&M and the State of Texas won't pay out one more dime than the state liability cap provides.

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Exactly, these are the people who you should be upset about, not the parents.

Two points.

The court made an error and it will be corrected.

It is all about money. Nothing else. The Baylor law firm and the other sips want to beat TAMU someway. It is only money nothing else.

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The Baylor law firm and the other sips want to beat TAMU someway. It is only money nothing else.

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Grow up.

First you say its only about the money and then you bring us some BS about Texas and Baylor trying to beat A&M.

What a dewsh.

At this point, it's either about the money, or trying to "get even". Especially for the families of those who were lost, it stopped being about their child the day they started a lawsuit.

All you have to do is ask "Is this what they would have wanted?"