Netflix - Death of a Pastor's wife

6,924 Views | 69 Replies | Last: 22 days ago by Hank the Grifter
deer corn
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Psychag said:

What really got me was the support of the people when he's spewing his garbage. How can you listen to that crap...especially the women. He didn't even try to hide it. And the family of the victim just happened to randomly find that parish. Life is so fragile.


Jeebus, how many sermons did he give to people saying, "if you don't meet your husband's needs, 40 other avenues of temptation will cross his path."

Where's the actual BIble that says the flesh should not be acknowledged above the works of Christ.

Yikes and bad look.
deer corn
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ChoppinDs40 said:

Isn't that what wives are for?


No. Treat your wives and respect them as Jesus respects and views the church.

Stop being so gross for stars, you moron.
deer corn
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MookieBlaylock said:

bc she is a bad shot - maybe she wanted to make sure it worked,

like I said this was maybe 45 minutes worth of material, maybe - just poorly made


Do you think your are clever and funny? We get it. You could have watched one episode for a summary.
C.O.F.
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It's not completely uncommon in gunshot suicides for the individual to fire one shot (not at themselves) just to see if the gun "works". Usually it is with those who are not too familiar with firearms. I can plausibly see the first fired round being the "test" fire. The live round found on the ground would be due to her pulling the slide back thinking she was loading another round into the chamber and not realizing the weapon already does it automatically, and the other spent round being the single gunshot wound to the head. This woman was manic so she was at an extremely high risk of suicide. Did the husband do much to stop her and maybe even threaten to release something she did not want known. There was a scene when she's at some gathering outside and she is telling him to leave. It's a quick scene but he mentions about having pictures he will show. Overall it was a very "poor" documentary that very clearly left out some major details which might have made it less compelling.
ChoppinDs40
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AG
Sarcasm you dingus.
Hub `93
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C.O.F. said:

Overall it was a very "poor" documentary that very clearly left out some major details which might have made it less compelling.

Agreed. Seems to have become a theme with Netflix documentaries judging from the last couple I've seen. They got my hopes up with how great Icarus was.
ChoppinDs40
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AG
I dunno the one about the conlady in New Boston that murdered a woman, cut her baby out, then tried to act like it was her own definitely... delivered.
Shelton98
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AG
There's one called "Toxic Love Story" that's pretty good too.
C.O.F.
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There have been several Netflix documentaries that have left out massive details that would change the narrative. Making a Murderer is def on that did this. Huge details and creative editing made that case seem extremely questionable in reference to Avery. Also the somewhat recent Jon Benet doc on Netflix left out massive details and forgot to point out the flaws in the retired detective reasons for stating it was an intruder.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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With Jonbenet, I imagine no one has the stones or lawyers willing to give the green light on stating who the obvious murderer was, but I'd love a well done documentary walking people through how the only answer that makes sense is her brother murdered her and all the oddities from the parents are due to them helping cover it up so that they didn't lose both children in a single night.
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BadMoonRisin
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

With Jonbenet, I imagine no one has the stones or lawyers willing to give the green light on stating who the obvious murderer was, but I'd love a well done documentary walking people through how the only answer that makes sense is her brother murdered her and all the oddities from the parents are due to them helping cover it up so that they didn't lose both children in a single night.

Yeah, Im with you. That's the only thing that makes sense.
DoitBest
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S
Is this a movie or series?
We are looking for series now....
bonfarr
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AG
Is it your theory that the brother cracked her on the head with something them the parents used a garrote to finish off their still breathing child to cover it up? The official death was strangulation and I have a hard time believing a 9 year old boy would use a garotte to strangle his sister.

Both scenarios sound like a major stretch to me.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be taken at face value.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Prepare for major thread derail.

That is one thought, but it wasn't like this was a professional hit style garrote wire. It was literally a string tied with a basic knot to a broken paint brush. Something a 9 year old in Boy Scouts could have fashioned without much trouble, although I think it much more likely that the father saw what likely appeared to be a fatal head injury and finished her off. Although I think it's still possible that Burke did it.

Burke had known behavioral issues leading up to Jonbenet's death, and a few of the episodes reportedly involved violence and aggression toward his sister including hitting her with a golf club over the head. And if you've ever seen interviews of him, you'd recognize that there is something clearly off about him.

The things we know to be fact that night. There was no signs of forced entry. The ransom note was written on the mother's stationary and there was a rough draft made before landing on the final ransom note. The ransom request was the exact amount of the father's most recent bonus. While the blunt head trauma was not reported to be the cause of death, it potentially could have been fatal. She had a comminuted skull fracture with underlying subdural hematoma. She likely would have been unconscious. This wasn't some minor head injury. The body was found in their basement behind a locked door that police initially ignored due to being latched shut which would make it impossible for an intruder to have gone through. The father was the one to find Jonbenet's body and then immediately grabbed her and rushed her upstairs contaminating the scene. They also found pineapple in her stomach and a bowl of uneaten pineapple with a spoon in it sitting on the kitchen table. A neighbor that gave a witness report stated they heard a scream around midnight and lights on in the kitchen. The mother would later claim Burke slept through the night and never woke up during all the commotion; however, you can hear him in the background on the initial 911 call. Enhanced audio demonstrated the following conversation:

Father: "We're not speaking to you"

Mother: "Help me Jesus. Help me Jesus."

Unidentified young male: "Well what did you find?"

The parents would later change their claim that Burke was asleep the whole night.

Handwriting analysis points towards the ransom letter likely being written by the mother.

The intruder theory is absurd and there is no point even discussing it as no one breaking into a house and kidnapping someone is going to sit down and write a 2 page ransom letter after first penning a rough draft while they are still inside the house.

The only two viable options are one or both of the parents did it or Burke did it. Investigators and the DA knew that going in on the Burke theory without definitive evidence would be a fool's errand as you can imagine how that would play out in the press that they were blaming the 9 year old brother rather than the parents whom the actually had evidence of tampering with the scene. The parents actions make a lot more sense when you consider their actions as protective of their son rather than for themselves.

The things in my mind that lead me towards the Burke conclusion is why lie that Burke was asleep? Also, Burke already had a known history of violence towards his sister and had hit her over the head once before leading to an ER visit, although I believe the mother had explained this away as an accident. His knife was also found in the basement which likely was used to fashion the garrote. Jonbenet had marks on her body that match the train tracks from his train set.

Ultimately it comes down to whether you believe it more likely that a spouse would come to the defense of their spouse that murdered their child or that two parents would come to the defense of their son and only remaining child after he murdered their daughter.

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Diggity
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AG
Need a few more disclaimers after that bs
BadMoonRisin
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Doc went full Jon Benet on a completely unrelated thread.

He's got some good points, however.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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I've been holding onto that theory for years waiting for someone on here to bring it up. Mods, feel free to delete it for being an obvious thread derail.
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Ex Ex Officio Director
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

I've been holding onto that theory for years waiting for someone on here to bring it up. Mods, feel free to delete it for being an obvious thread derail.


Before mods delete, I have questions!!!

Why would they include the demand as the exact amount of his bonus?? Wouldn't that point directly back to them?

Would a nine year old know to make a garrote (even if he didn't know exactly what he was making?)? I could see a kid that age in today's world knowing of the idea of one, just from exposure to the internet. But a kid that age in the early 90s?
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Because Patsy was a ditz who was in a panic and likely latched onto a dollar number that was freshly in her brain. Also, maybe she thought it would give credibility to the bizarre international criminal organization she concocted that they were all knowing and knew he had just got a bonus. It's not really a debate that Patsy wrote the ransom letter, however.

And the garrote, as I mentioned before, was not a complex device. It was nylon knotted onto a broken paintbrush. It was actually the father I believe that first used the term "garrote" to describe the murder weapon which is clearly an attempt to make it sound more complex than what it actually was. Burke sailed and was in Boy Scouts, so making it would not have been particularly difficult for him. The real question that is impossible to answer is was it Burke or one of the parents that ultimately put her out of her misery. I lean toward the parents, but certainly possible Burke could have done that as well.

Interestingly, it is estimated that Jonbenet was asphyxiated 45 minutes to 2 hours after the head injury which makes me think that whomever ultimately killed her, gave it some time and thought before doing it, maybe waiting to see whether she'd show signs of improvement. That kind of thought process makes me lean towards the parents who likely would have been awoken by the scream and come down to find their daughter unconscious following a nasty head injury. They then realize if they take her to a hospital either believe they'd lose their son or they themselves would be blamed for the injury leading to their arrest. So instead, they wait to see if she gains consciousness. When she doesn't, or maybe even shows signs of worsening neurological status, they decide to end it.

I'm also interested on what their plan was next. A police officer overheard the father speaking to the pilot of his private plane regarding taking off that day to which the officer informed him that he could not leave the city. It also took 7 hours after the police first arrived before the father finally decided to go down into the basement and immediately found the body. It sounds like the father had alternative plans regarding what to do with the body and was hoping the body wouldn't be found. Maybe he thought he'd leave her in the basement and then shove her in a suitcase and take her on the plane to dump her elsewhere. Based on the stupid ransom note, it seems they were legitimately trying to stage a kidnapping but obviously pivoted when they realized they were not going to be able to stick to that plan before someone found the body.
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BadMoonRisin
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

That kind of thought process makes me lean towards the parents who likely would have been awoken by the scream and come down to find their daughter unconscious following a nasty head injury. They then realize if they take her to a hospital either believe they'd lose their son or they themselves would be blamed for the injury leading to their arrest. So instead, they wait to see if she gains consciousness. When she doesn't, or maybe even shows signs of worsening neurological status, they decide to end it.

Geez. That's certainly a choice.

Easiest thing would be to just call 9-1-1 and let the chips fall how they may. Instead they did this.
Cesspool Hustler
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Thread back on track:

Just finished this. I LOATHE the preacher/husband. Scum of the earth.
Listening to his high pitched crying while talking was nails on a chalkboard. I wanted to slap the **** out of him.
JB
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AG
I wonder if she was every really bipolar? Or if that was a thing he made up to get her on drugs?

Would like to have heard from her first husband or his first wife.

In the beginning, it showed quick camera shots of him in a General Lee themed Charger, and there was a DeLorean in his garage when the FBI searched the house. Strange detail I noticed.
Diggity
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JB said:

I wonder if she was every really bipolar? Or if that was a thing he made up to get her on drugs?

Would like to have heard from her first husband or his first wife.

In the beginning, it showed quick camera shots of him in a General Lee themed Charger, and there was a DeLorean in his garage when the FBI searched the house. Strange detail I noticed.

"The Death of a Time Traveling Pastor's Wife" would make for a great sequel.
Rex Racer
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

Because Patsy was a ditz who was in a panic and likely latched onto a dollar number that was freshly in her brain. Also, maybe she thought it would give credibility to the bizarre international criminal organization she concocted that they were all knowing and knew he had just got a bonus. It's not really a debate that Patsy wrote the ransom letter, however.

And the garrote, as I mentioned before, was not a complex device. It was nylon knotted onto a broken paintbrush. It was actually the father I believe that first used the term "garrote" to describe the murder weapon which is clearly an attempt to make it sound more complex than what it actually was. Burke sailed and was in Boy Scouts, so making it would not have been particularly difficult for him. The real question that is impossible to answer is was it Burke or one of the parents that ultimately put her out of her misery. I lean toward the parents, but certainly possible Burke could have done that as well.

Interestingly, it is estimated that Jonbenet was asphyxiated 45 minutes to 2 hours after the head injury which makes me think that whomever ultimately killed her, gave it some time and thought before doing it, maybe waiting to see whether she'd show signs of improvement. That kind of thought process makes me lean towards the parents who likely would have been awoken by the scream and come down to find their daughter unconscious following a nasty head injury. They then realize if they take her to a hospital either believe they'd lose their son or they themselves would be blamed for the injury leading to their arrest. So instead, they wait to see if she gains consciousness. When she doesn't, or maybe even shows signs of worsening neurological status, they decide to end it.

I'm also interested on what their plan was next. A police officer overheard the father speaking to the pilot of his private plane regarding taking off that day to which the officer informed him that he could not leave the city. It also took 7 hours after the police first arrived before the father finally decided to go down into the basement and immediately found the body. It sounds like the father had alternative plans regarding what to do with the body and was hoping the body wouldn't be found. Maybe he thought he'd leave her in the basement and then shove her in a suitcase and take her on the plane to dump her elsewhere. Based on the stupid ransom note, it seems they were legitimately trying to stage a kidnapping but obviously pivoted when they realized they were not going to be able to stick to that plan before someone found the body.

Your theory is compelling except for one thing. The DNA of the unknown male that was found on her underwear and on the sides of her pajama pants.

I have always believed that Patsy wrote the ransom note, but that DNA throws a wrench into my theory that I can't explain.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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The "DNA evidence" is what is called "touch DNA" or trace DNA which only requires microscopic skin cells to pick up. It is notoriously unreliable in criminal cases due to being overly sensitive. It can literally pick up skin cells left over by factory workers who made the clothing someone is wearing, or the investigator who found the evidence, or from a simple handshake.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Fenrir
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Your post reminds me of the Phantom of Heilbronn where a decade long hunt for a female serial killer ended up being a series of unrelated crimes linked together by the fact that the DNA collection in all of the cases used cotton swabs from the same contaminated batch. Some woman in Eastern Europe got her DNA on the batch prior to shipping.
Rex Racer
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AG
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

The "DNA evidence" is what is called "touch DNA" or trace DNA which only requires microscopic skin cells to pick up. It is notoriously unreliable in criminal cases due to being overly sensitive. It can literally pick up skin cells left over by factory workers who made the clothing someone is wearing, or the investigator who found the evidence, or from a simple handshake.

I didn't realize it was touch DNA. I thought the DNA on the pants was, but I could have sworn the DNA on the underwear was from bodily fluid.

Edit: I was correct. It is believed to be saliva.
uujm
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This was brought up on 2 Bears 1 Cave and Bert promptly spoiled the end.
aggieforester05
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AG
C.O.F. said:

It's not completely uncommon in gunshot suicides for the individual to fire one shot (not at themselves) just to see if the gun "works". Usually it is with those who are not too familiar with firearms. I can plausibly see the first fired round being the "test" fire. The live round found on the ground would be due to her pulling the slide back thinking she was loading another round into the chamber and not realizing the weapon already does it automatically, and the other spent round being the single gunshot wound to the head. This woman was manic so she was at an extremely high risk of suicide. Did the husband do much to stop her and maybe even threaten to release something she did not want known. There was a scene when she's at some gathering outside and she is telling him to leave. It's a quick scene but he mentions about having pictures he will show. Overall it was a very "poor" documentary that very clearly left out some major details which might have made it less compelling.

My brother saved a woman last week after hearing gunshots in his rural and mostly empty neighborhood and calling 911. Found his neighbor rolling around in the grass at her house with a gun in her hand. Turns out she tried to kill herself.

She tried to shoot herself in the heart and flinched hitting her shoulder instead. Went into her house and grabbed a butcher's knife and slit both of her wrists. Grabbed another gun, went outside and stuck it in her mouth and shot. It blew out part of her mouth and the bullet traveled up through her skull and lodged behind her eye.

She lost the eye, but was up walking around the hospital the next day.

The cops recovered a 9mm semi auto handgun, a snub nose .38, and the butcher's knife, so it wasn't like she shot herself with a .22 LR.

Headshots don't always kill on the first try.

Blonde Coffee Beans
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JB said:

I wonder if she was every really bipolar? Or if that was a thing he made up to get her on drugs?

Would like to have heard from her first husband or his first wife.

In the beginning, it showed quick camera shots of him in a General Lee themed Charger, and there was a DeLorean in his garage when the FBI searched the house. Strange detail I noticed.

If she wasn't bipolar, being in a marriage like that would make most people feel like theyre bipolar. He sent her on a very wild rollercoaster ride. Definitely easy to manipulate people in your circle that she was.
"I don't care about your feelings OP. I'm not going to let fandom replace reason, thought, and history"
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Rex Racer said:

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

The "DNA evidence" is what is called "touch DNA" or trace DNA which only requires microscopic skin cells to pick up. It is notoriously unreliable in criminal cases due to being overly sensitive. It can literally pick up skin cells left over by factory workers who made the clothing someone is wearing, or the investigator who found the evidence, or from a simple handshake.

I didn't realize it was touch DNA. I thought the DNA on the pants was, but I could have sworn the DNA on the underwear was from bodily fluid.

Edit: I was correct. It is believed to be saliva.


It was never confirmed to be saliva. The DNA sample in question was a mixed sample from a blood stain on her underwear most prominently being Jon Benet's DNA with a trace amount being from an unknown male. This sample was heavily amplified due to minimal DNA availability. It was believed that the sample may have been saliva or sweat, but that remains unclear.

All of that can be easily explained by scene contamination, nevertheless, especially given what we know about the handling of the initial investigation. People put way too much stock in DNA evidence especially in cases where touch DNA is being used. And given the minimal amount of DNA available for testing and high probability of scene contamination, the clear improbability of the intruder theory given we know that Patsy wrote the ransom note, I'd say the DNA evidence is less than compelling. This case just highlights the drawbacks of its utilization as evidence where it can potentially muddy an otherwise clear picture of who committed a crime.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Rex Racer
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AG
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

Rex Racer said:

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

The "DNA evidence" is what is called "touch DNA" or trace DNA which only requires microscopic skin cells to pick up. It is notoriously unreliable in criminal cases due to being overly sensitive. It can literally pick up skin cells left over by factory workers who made the clothing someone is wearing, or the investigator who found the evidence, or from a simple handshake.

I didn't realize it was touch DNA. I thought the DNA on the pants was, but I could have sworn the DNA on the underwear was from bodily fluid.

Edit: I was correct. It is believed to be saliva.


It was never confirmed to be saliva. The DNA sample in question was a mixed sample from a blood stain on her underwear most prominently being Jon Benet's DNA with a trace amount being from an unknown male. This sample was heavily amplified due to minimal DNA availability. It was believed that the sample may have been saliva or sweat, but that remains unclear.

All of that can be easily explained by scene contamination, nevertheless, especially given what we know about the handling of the initial investigation. People put way too much stock in DNA evidence especially in cases where touch DNA is being used. And given the minimal amount of DNA available for testing and high probability of scene contamination, the clear improbability of the intruder theory given we know that Patsy wrote the ransom note, I'd say the DNA evidence is less than compelling. This case just highlights the drawbacks of its utilization as evidence where it can potentially muddy an otherwise clear picture of who committed a crime.

After more research, I see that you are correct about the "saliva" not being confirmed. Then I'm definitely back to my original thoughts that it was an inside job. I just wonder if it was Patsy who got frustrated with JonBenet for her bedwetting and struck her. I could see a husband covering for his wife. I guess it could have been Burke, but we'll never know. I did confirm that the fracture to the skull could have been caused by a 9 year-old boy using a smooth object like the Mag-lite.

MONGO IS APPALLED
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AG
Give Patsy a break. She was probably hormonal.
Rex Racer
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AJ02 said:

Give Patsy a break. She was probably hormonal.

The 911 call was also very suspicious. If you watch any of the "48 Hours" or "Dateline" shows, whenever they start the show with a 911 call, it's usually pretty obvious when the caller is the murderer. They try to sound upset, but they just end up sounding out of breath. Patsy sounded like that on her 911 call.
Cesspool Hustler
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aggieforester05 said:

C.O.F. said:

It's not completely uncommon in gunshot suicides for the individual to fire one shot (not at themselves) just to see if the gun "works". Usually it is with those who are not too familiar with firearms. I can plausibly see the first fired round being the "test" fire. The live round found on the ground would be due to her pulling the slide back thinking she was loading another round into the chamber and not realizing the weapon already does it automatically, and the other spent round being the single gunshot wound to the head. This woman was manic so she was at an extremely high risk of suicide. Did the husband do much to stop her and maybe even threaten to release something she did not want known. There was a scene when she's at some gathering outside and she is telling him to leave. It's a quick scene but he mentions about having pictures he will show. Overall it was a very "poor" documentary that very clearly left out some major details which might have made it less compelling.

My brother saved a woman last week after hearing gunshots in his rural and mostly empty neighborhood and calling 911. Found his neighbor rolling around in the grass at her house with a gun in her hand. Turns out she tried to kill herself.

She tried to shoot herself in the heart and flinched hitting her shoulder instead. Went into her house and grabbed a butcher's knife and slit both of her wrists. Grabbed another gun, went outside and stuck it in her mouth and shot. It blew out part of her mouth and the bullet traveled up through her skull and lodged behind her eye.

She lost the eye, but was up walking around the hospital the next day.

The cops recovered a 9mm semi auto handgun, a snub nose .38, and the butcher's knife, so it wasn't like she shot herself with a .22 LR.

Headshots don't always kill on the first try.



Good lord.
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