Yes, I think "woke" has obviously been a factor, but as I've said many times before, I think the death of R-rated comedies, same as most terrible Hollywood decisions, has been due far more to risk-averse execs scared of losing their jobs. But the way Vaughn expands on that, and frames basic life experiences as the original "IP" (intellectual property, in the form of book and board game adaptations, endless sequels, spinoffs, etc) is such a brilliant point, one I hadn't ever considered before. To the point where every Hollywood exec should be forced to watch this clip. I also like that Vaughn is hopeful they'll make a comeback, as I'm starting to get that sense as well. Not only are most industry folk I talk to sick and tired of Hollywood's stodginess, but I think audiences too are starving for great, widely released, R-rated studio comedies again...

“With John Hughes, IP was a girl turning 16. Life situations.”

Perfect summation of what’s wrong with the current state of the movie business. https://t.co/hZrDjgn7Ki

— ʟᴜᴋᴇ ʙᴀʀɴᴇᴛᴛ 👨🏻‍🍼 (@LukeBarnett) August 4, 2024

He really does. Universally experienced feelings are more relatable and nostalgic than any board game or random product.

— ʟᴜᴋᴇ ʙᴀʀɴᴇᴛᴛ 👨🏻‍🍼 (@LukeBarnett) August 4, 2024

Rudyjax said:

---

Matt Damon said something very similar on the same show. Looking for it but can't seem to find it.

Basically, no one wants to take a risk.

---

Damon talked about how the loss of DVD sales have killed mid budget movies. IMO this has probably hurt R-Rated comedies more than the influence of IP. You'd think the revenue of streaming would have replaced the revenue of DVD sales. But we just had a big strike to prove that revenue stream is making it into the pockets of studios and not writers.

Matt Damon on mid-budget movies via Hot Ones
pic.twitter.com/YBvWWo7dCc

— Film Daze (@filmdaze) September 19, 2022

I think they're both right, but Damon is closer to the bullseye.

Quad Dog said:

---

Agree with him that studios are risk adverse. Hopefully we'll see someone make super small budget comedies again to try and maximize profit.

I'm not sure I agree with him on his point about IP. What recent comedy movies have been based on IP that he is referring to? Where are these R-Rated IP based comedy movies that studios are making instead of making R-Rated non IP movies? Yes tons of action/comedy movies are IP based . But what kinds of recent comedies that we would associate with Vaughn have been IP based? I can't think of any. Maybe he's hearing things behind the scenes I'm not seeing.

I don't think IP deserves the blame. Instead we should figure out why they don't make as many and the ones they make aren't that good.

Some 2023 comedies:
Barbie: was kind of a comedy, IP based, but PG-13.
Cocaine Bear: R-Rated, based off a news story: is that IP based?
No Hard Feelings: R-Rated non IP
Shotgun Wedding: R-Rated non IP
Anyone But You: R-rated non IP. Vince Vaughn totally could have been the best friend in this movie
Bottoms: R-Rated non IP

Pretty crazy that this type of deep conversation comes from a chicken wing talk show.

---

He's not saying that R-rated comedies have been replaced with R-rated IP comedies. That's not a thing. Rather, he's saying that the crazed pursuit of IP above all - no matter the genre - has pushed out damn near everything else, including R-rated comedies (along with romantic comedies, adult dramas to a lesser extent, etc). Studios want seemingly everything nowadays to be based on some kind of IP, in order to minimize risk, to the detriment of the industry as a whole. When, in reality, if some of these idiot execs would realize that shared life experiences are a form of "IP" in and of themselves, audiences would show up just the same.

TCTTS said:

---

Quad Dog said:

---

Agree with him that studios are risk adverse. Hopefully we'll see someone make super small budget comedies again to try and maximize profit.

I'm not sure I agree with him on his point about IP. What recent comedy movies have been based on IP that he is referring to? Where are these R-Rated IP based comedy movies that studios are making instead of making R-Rated non IP movies? Yes tons of action/comedy movies are IP based . But what kinds of recent comedies that we would associate with Vaughn have been IP based? I can't think of any. Maybe he's hearing things behind the scenes I'm not seeing.

I don't think IP deserves the blame. Instead we should figure out why they don't make as many and the ones they make aren't that good.

Some 2023 comedies:
Barbie: was kind of a comedy, IP based, but PG-13.
Cocaine Bear: R-Rated, based off a news story: is that IP based?
No Hard Feelings: R-Rated non IP
Shotgun Wedding: R-Rated non IP
Anyone But You: R-rated non IP. Vince Vaughn totally could have been the best friend in this movie
Bottoms: R-Rated non IP

Pretty crazy that this type of deep conversation comes from a chicken wing talk show.

---

He's not saying that R-rated comedies have been replaced with R-rated IP comedies. That's not a thing. Rather, he's essentially saying that the crazed pursuit of IP above all - no matter the genre - has pushed out damn near everything else, including R-rated comedies (along with romantic comedies, adult dramas to a lesser extent, etc). Studios want seemingly everything nowadays to be based on some kind of IP, in order to minimize risk, to the detriment of the industry as a whole. When, in reality, if some of these idiot execs would realize that shared life experiences are a form of "IP" in and of themselves, audiences will show up just the same.

---

Basically, they want to base it on something successful and they thing that will guarantee success.

Like this movie Bad Monkey, based on a best selling book? Which also has several sequels....

Reminds me of Fletch.

It's not even that IP guarantees success. It doesn't. It's that if it bombs an exec can wash his or her hands hands clean and say, "This project I greenlit was based on IP, and the 'rules' therefor dictate that it has a built-in audience, so that audience not showing up wasn't my fault, it was the marketing team, the writer, etc. But I did my job because I followed the IP 'rule.'"

Dumb and Dumber, American Pie, Superbad.

just to name a few generational comedies that would fit the shared life experience.

Furlock Bones said:

---

Dumb and Dumber, American Pie, Superbad.

just to name a few generational comedies that would fit the shared life experience.

---

Right. And how old are those movies?

Rudyjax said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

Dumb and Dumber, American Pie, Superbad.

just to name a few generational comedies that would fit the shared life experience.

---

Right. And how old are those movies?

---

i believe that's Vince Vaughn's point. we aren't getting attempts at these movies anymore.

Vince also discussed this on the Smartless podcast (came out this week).

Saying that R comedies have been replaced by standup comedians doing one hour specials for millions. From a Netflix perspective for example, why spend millions on a movie when they can spend it on buying an hour standup routine. For the comedians they have more exposure doing standup than writing a movie. Vince expands more on this topic really well. He does see R comedies coming back.

I literally just told my wife the other day while we were watching Old School on TV, man they need to make more movies like this in the theater. It seems like any comedy just about but especially good comedies don't go to the theater. I understand that it's probably cheaper to go straight to streaming but I feel like they'd put more effort into a good script/movie it was released theatrically. the majority of what are in the theaters are blockbusters, dramas, or horror movies. Maybe the good comedy will make a comeback soon.

I'm just genuinely happy that this is coming from an interview from Hot Ones.

That guy is so dang good at interviewing people. This guy and Graham Norton get the best answers and genuine reactions out of people than any other talk show host.

Fascinating topic, and another reason why Hot Ones is goated.

What Vince Vaughn and Matt Damon said those clips kind of goes together. First, Damon explains why they have to make more money at the box office because they don't have secondary revenue from the sale of physical media. I had never through about that, and I'm a guy that used to spend an inordinate amount of time collecting movies for two decades before I washed my hands of it.

Anyway, Damon explains why they have to be more risk averse because they've lost a revenue source. Then Vaughn explains what shape that anxiety has taken in the form of trying to attach stories to established IP regardless whether it makes sense. Barbie? Sure. All the folks that saw Barbie's ROI and decide to make a My Buddy and Kid Sister movie? Not so much.

Quote:

---

Pretty crazy that this type of deep conversation comes from a chicken wing talk show.

---

The odds of me having already seen both of the clips discussed in this thread would be next to nothing if not for Hot Ones. It's pretty much the only celebrity junket interview show I've watched in the last couple years, and just happened to have them back in my feed and suggested videos after watching the Ryan Reynolds & Hugh Jackman episode.

Graham Norton, as jokershady mentioned, is also one of the few big name hosts who seems natural at getting guests off-guard and talking.

I think "woke" and DEI is 100% a factor in this. Is it the only factor? Probably not. But it is a glaring one and could be so simple to remove... just reject it. That's why so many of us bring it up so often. It kills creativity and the ability to push boundaries, and is so obvious when it's present that we all see it. It forces guardrails on hollywood productions that don't have to be there. Remove it, and you will still have ****ty movies and shows, but at least you have removed a huge variable to that recipe that we can hope will open the door for better products.

I do think the R-rated comedy is affected more by the woke ideology than other types of movies. If you live in a region of the country where certain "protected" classes of people are off limits, or certain words and themes cannot be used, or you require them to hire certain writers simply due to the innate physical characteristics of those writers, it directly affects the final product. It just does. To argue with that is simply gaslighting.

Great example for me of leftist unfunny vs classic comedy hilarity is Trump impersonations. Alec Baldwin playing Trump on SNL was always simply hateful and full of spite and animosity for Trump. I never found it funny and frankly couldn't even bare to watch that crap. You can tell the goal of Baldwin and the writers was to make Trump look as bad as possible.

Then you look at Shane Gillis impersonating Trump, and I can't get enough of it. If I see a new segment of it that I haven't seen yet, I have to click on it. The Kill Tony episode with him as Trump the entire time is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Why is that? Because Shane is not being venomous or trying to push some ideology. He is simply doing an outstanding impression for purely comedic purposes.

Lathspell said:

---

I think "woke" and DEI is 100% a factor in this. Is it the only factor? Probably not. But it is a glaring one and could be so simple to remove... just reject it. That's why so many of us bring it up so often. It kills creativity and the ability to push boundaries, and is so obvious when it's present that we all see it. It forces guardrails on hollywood productions that don't have to be there. Remove it, and you will still have ****ty movies and shows, but at least you have removed a huge variable to that recipe that we can hope will open the door for better products.

I do think the R-rated comedy is affected more by the woke ideology than other types of movies. If you live in a region of the country where certain "protected" classes of people are off limits, or certain words and themes cannot be used, or you require them to hire certain writers simply due to the innate physical characteristics of those writers, it directly affects the final product. It just does. To argue with that is simply gaslighting.

Great example for me of leftist unfunny vs classic comedy hilarity is Trump impersonations. Alec Baldwin playing Trump on SNL was always simply hateful and full of spite and animosity for Trump. I never found it funny and frankly couldn't even bare to watch that crap. You can tell the goal of Baldwin and the writers was to make Trump look as bad as possible.

Then you look at Shane Gillis impersonating Trump, and I can't get enough of it. If I see a new segment of it that I haven't seen yet, I have to click on it. The Kill Tony episode with him as Trump the entire time is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Why is that? Because Shane is not being venomous or trying to push some ideology. He is simply doing an outstanding impression for purely comedic purposes.

---

Can we have any discussion without going F16?

...so I'm not allowed to share my opinion on the topic of the thread because you don't like it. Got it.

Lathspell said:

---

I think "woke" and DEI is 100% a factor in this. Is it the only factor? Probably not. But it is a glaring one and could be so simple to remove... just reject it. That's why so many of us bring it up so often. It kills creativity and the ability to push boundaries, and is so obvious when it's present that we all see it. It forces guardrails on hollywood productions that don't have to be there. Remove it, and you will still have ****ty movies and shows, but at least you have removed a huge variable to that recipe that we can hope will open the door for better products.

I do think the R-rated comedy is affected more by the woke ideology than other types of movies. If you live in a region of the country where certain "protected" classes of people are off limits, or certain words and themes cannot be used, or you require them to hire certain writers simply due to the innate physical characteristics of those writers, it directly affects the final product. It just does. To argue with that is simply gaslighting.

Great example for me of leftist unfunny vs classic comedy hilarity is Trump impersonations. Alec Baldwin playing Trump on SNL was always simply hateful and full of spite and animosity for Trump. I never found it funny and frankly couldn't even bare to watch that crap. You can tell the goal of Baldwin and the writers was to make Trump look as bad as possible.

Then you look at Shane Gillis impersonating Trump, and I can't get enough of it. If I see a new segment of it that I haven't seen yet, I have to click on it. The Kill Tony episode with him as Trump the entire time is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Why is that? Because Shane is not being venomous or trying to push some ideology. He is simply doing an outstanding impression for purely comedic purposes.

---

I actually think more diverse comedies would be a great thing and a potential solution to the problem. How many white kids in the suburbs comedy movies do we have? That type of movie is spent. Show me a R-Rated comedy movie about Indian kids or black kids in the city. At least it won't be something I haven't seen before.

That's fine with me, as long as the writers aren't forced in to meet some kind of quota or requirement for receiving Oscar considerations.

I just want good movies. I was raised with a love for watching movies and will watch just about any genre of movie. It's telling when you see Gen Z watch movies from the 2000's and say the comedy is dated simply because they are making fun of things you aren't allowed to make fun of.

I definitely get the argument that stand-up specials see a larger return on investment because there are barely any production costs. Granted, the entire streaming industry makes it much harder to judge ROI than box office numbers and DVD sales. However, I think people are flocking more and more to stand-up because they know these comedians are going after the woke world we live in, today. I'm generalizing this because it's definitely how I feel, and i know I'm not the only one.

All someone has to tell me about a movie is "there is no woke agenda", and I'm immediately intrigued and willing to spend 2 hours of my life watching it. I'm not the only one.

Just watched Rogan's special yesterday and thought it was very good.

I can say, for a fact, I have never laughed harder in a movie theater than at this scene:

Lathspell said:

---

...so I'm not allowed to share my opinion on the topic of the thread because you don't like it. Got it.

---

You made a good point and did so respectfully, don't bother with what that guy says.

Three thoughts.
Joe Rogan is not a good standup and his special wasnt good, but I used to listen very regularly to his podcast and still tune in for the occassional one that is throwback levels of good.

Watching something because it is "going after woke topics" is just falling for the same kind of marketing as saying a movie "touches on important cultural topics" or is "diverse", but at targeted at different groups of people. You're still just being manipulated to watch either way and by the same hollywood executives.

I want good comedies to come back

I think the problem is just the overall corporatization of Hollywood. Lack of ideas, using known IP, etc. are all parts of the same problem. More "number" people are in charge than actual "idea" people.