I'm only a few minutes in, but the implications of Clear Channel and Cumulus taking over radio programming is interesting.

Thanks for posting. I've watched this guy a few times when he discusses or ranks riffs, solos, etc. First time I've seen him doing a "behind the music" video. Interesting stuff that I wasn't aware of.

Haha but I was aware that Lowry Mays was the founder of Clear Channel.

cs09 said:

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Thanks for posting. I've watched this guy a few times when he discusses or ranks riffs, solos, etc. First time I've seen him doing a "behind the music" video. Interesting stuff that I wasn't aware of.

Haha but I was aware that Lowry Mays was the founder of Clear Channel.

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Beato's youtube channel is stellar.

cs09 said:

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Thanks for posting. I've watched this guy a few times when he discusses or ranks riffs, solos, etc. First time I've seen him doing a "behind the music" video. Interesting stuff that I wasn't aware of.

Haha but I was aware that Lowry Mays was the founder of Clear Channel.

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He's a really sharp guy. I know basically nothing about music technically, compositionally, etc., but his discussion is still very engaging and insightful.

Very interesting stiff. Thanks for posting.

Whoooooo boy.

Lots to unpack here. (Sorry for the cliche)

Placeholder so I can come back for a longer reply later.

Short version...pretty much spot on with everything but I can get into more detail on especially the radio and promotion side of it. Not so much on the record producing (at one point my brother and I talked about starting a label/production/promotion house but we both noped out after scratching enough of the surface) but the other stuff, yeah. I've got some stories, some of them even useful or amusing.

Alright then. Let's dig in.

The telecom act of '96 that ended a lot ownership restrictions did harm radio overall, not just rock radio. The McDonaldization happened as giant companies like Clear Channel started cutting back on the programming side and making things pretty standard across the board because all the Jim Ladd "last DJ" types cost money and it's just cheaper without 'em. Pretty soon as technology caught up, other big operators followed the same path. When clear Channel did something, everyone followed, even much smaller (but still nationwide) groups would do it and mom n pop stations were always looking to operate as cheaply as possible.

The bit about 2 and a half minutes in about the "independent" promoters is 100% truth. It was the way around payola/plugola but it's the same basic stuff except instead of envelopes of cash being sent to DJs, it became grifting on a different level. If you were a program director, you'd tell your indie promoter something like "gee gosh golly it'd be nice to have a few tickets to this Rob Zombie tour to give out to my listeners" and the promoter would come back and say "oh, what luck! I've got 10 pairs for you! Hey, did you get the new single from Econoline Crush? We think it's gonna break out really soon. WMMS in Philly is on it already. So is KUPD in Phoenix." And then you'd say "oh really wow thats great! I'll listen to it again, I've been looking to add something like that to our playlist lately. Maybe low rotation ya know, gotta see how it sounds on the station." And the promoter would say "I think you'll really like it. Oh and while we've been talking I just sent out a FedEx package...you should get it Thursday...if you don't see all 20 pairs in there, just let me know."

This was all perfectly legal and by the book.

Skipping over the record industry part in the downfall because I don't have much to add..but around the 21 minute mark they talk about how everything was starting to sound the same. A copy of a copy of a copy, etc. They talk about Napster etc and how that affected record labels and God knows there's plenty of write-ups on that but i think the confluence of online PLUS the corporatization of radio and the relaxation of ownership rules all contributed equally. The few "tastemakers" that rock radio traditionally relied on...most of those stations aren't rock any more and those program directors either rose up and became corporate or they got out of the business entirely. The Leslie Fram he mentioned...an absolute legend in alternative radio back in the 90s. I think she wound up at MTV/VH1 for a while and she's still a SVP for one of the cable channels I think. She also rejoined 99X in Atlanta recently as they've embraced 90s nostalgia and resurrected the 99X brand in the last year or so. As far as I know she's just doing the morning show there.

One thing I don't feel like they covered enough in the video...they kinda sorta eluded to it talking about how they weren't necessarily listening to a lot of Linkin Park in England or whatever...rock radio absolutely fumbled the ball in finding new blood in the early 00s. Rock and alternative shared a lot of common artists in the late 90s but rock stations would play Led Zeppelin for their older stuff and alt stations might lean into the college/indie stuff. At some point rock radio went full on straight into the guitar grunge side and missed out on a lot of bands (Black Keys, etc) that totally sound fine along other core rock artists....alternative embraced bands like that while also evolving as EDM became more mainstream.

Rock radio was doomed by radio consolidation and record label greed but mainly because they kept trying to squeeze the last bits of creativity out and wring out the last bit of money from what they already knew. To be fair, the internet doomed record labels far more than consolidation; the ability of any artist being able to produce their own stuff and release it on their own probably spelled doom no matter what.

The last point I'll make and something I wish they would have hit on more...the measuring of audiences. They briefly talked about it and calling record stores etc to see what was selling. Etc. But the move from Arbitron (now part of Nielsen) to go in the highest population markets to the "portable people meter" as opposed to handwritten diaries meant that program directors could actually break down the listening into 5 minute chunks and it was easier to find out (not quite in real time but close enough) what songs were causing people to tune out. The proliferation of an infinite number of entertainment choices (hello, internet) didn't help, so in the time tested model of "let's squeeze every drop of blood out of this corpse while we can" it began to homogenize things even more so. When radio stations are essentially handed down from on high, they're going to play the safest stuff possible and the safest stuff possible is the most mass appeal stuff you can imagine. There's no room for music discovery anymore because as soon as you hear something you don't like, you're flipping the station to something else.

We just didn't flip back.

RIP Rock Radio. You were awesome.

Beato is a great for a lot of reasons. A big reason is he is making the videos he wants to make. Not the videos he thinks are going to get him a lot of views.

This is one of those.

Rick always delivers. His channel is one of my very few YT subscriptions.

If you have SiriusXM, listen to the Pop Rocks channel sometime to hear what happened to music back then. My gym used to play it, and it nearly drove me mad. I have Sugar Ray PTSD. (Sorry, fans. That's just one example of many.)

You should read The Power of Habit. It hits on some of what you're talking about on why so much music sounds the same. TLDR is that your brain likes familiar stuff, so you're primed to like songs that sound like songs you already know and like. It perfectly explains why so many genres have devolved into basically a single sound and style.

However, even unpopular songs that people tune away from can be made popular by sandwiching them between popular songs and easing them in.

I was in radio from 89 to 05. I lived this stuff.

Reminds me of the KLOL days - rock stars coming to the station, concert announcements, and the DJs were rock stars themselves. No one would have a Two-fer Tuesday anymore.

One of the first big time rock radio consultants I ever met was the guy who invented two for Tuesday. He slept through a meeting I was in.

Finally got a chance to watch the video.

I had to laugh when he was talking about session drummers because one of my friends plays a lot of sessions for a lot of different bands.

I was friends with the late Jimmy Bain and Jimmy recorded a lot of bass tracks for a lot of bands too. I still enjoy every time I hear "Rock You Like a Hurricane" knowing that's Jimmy on bass.

I remember Jimmy being late to a party once because he had to finish laying down the bass tracks for some new band in Italy who was paying him $100/song for 12 songs.

My drummer friend once went on a rant about the drummer in a well known band who lacked the skill to play the drum tracks on the band's album the way my session drummer friend had recorded them. So in concert, the drums were never going to sound like what was on the album. Kind of funny.

To back up what they were saying about modern recording budgets and the use of Pro Tools, etc., I've got a friend who is a great guitar player but is primarily known as a Producer. I was over at his house one night and it was amazing what he could do with Pro Tools.

I sat there and watched him take some recorded tracks, bring them together and duplicate parts so that they sounded perfect. Maybe even too good. And then, he forced us to drink some gross Cider drink before we left. But, it was a great time. Also cool getting to see the beginnings of a song that later came out on a friend's album.

Big Al 1992 said:

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Reminds me of the KLOL days - rock stars coming to the station, concert announcements, and the DJs were rock stars themselves. No one would have a Two-fer Tuesday anymore.

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Or playing an entire album..

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Big Al 1992 said:

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Reminds me of the KLOL days - rock stars coming to the station, concert announcements, and the DJs were rock stars themselves. No one would have a Two-fer Tuesday anymore.

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Or playing an entire album..

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Metal Shop!!!

No patience with this generation to actually listen to one album side, much less an entire album.

Psychag said:

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No patience with this generation to actually listen to one album side, much less an entire album.

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This is still the way I consume music. Very very rarely do I listen to a single song instead of an entire album.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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You should read The Power of Habit. It hits on some of what you're talking about on why so much music sounds the same. TLDR is that your brain likes familiar stuff, so you're primed to like songs that sound like songs you already know and like. It perfectly explains why so many genres have devolved into basically a single sound and style.

However, even unpopular songs that people tune away from can be made popular by sandwiching them between popular songs and easing them in.

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This the one you're referencing? There are a couple on Amazon

The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business https://a.co/d/0mautTJ

I think one thing many people miss from this discussion is the current economic situation. The reason that radio stations seem to follow the same pattern is the same reason movies follow the same pattern. It's also the same reason cars within the same class seem to basically be copies of each other. Government has pushed our cost of living too high and has changed the risk/reward calculation for everybody.

If a given song, movie, business venture, etc. has a 20% chance of success, then the potential reward must be at least 5X the cost to statistically break even. But if the cost of living pushes that investment cost really high, then that means that 5X would be in the stratosphere. Producers therefore need to increase that chance of success from 20% to 80%. So they invest in slam dunks like movie sequels, Taylor Swift albums/tours/movies, or carbon copies of sedan designs that have proven to sell.

If $10K a year was able to earn a decent living like the old days, then people and ventures would be able to afford taking more risk again.

HollywoodBQ said:

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And then, he forced us to drink some gross Cider drink before we left. But, it was a great time. Also cool getting to see the beginnings of a song that later came out on a friend's album.

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Any whisky drink? Vodka drink? Lager drink?

During the whole video it was screaming out about 94.5 the Buzz in Houston.

I graduated high school in 96 and we all knew there was a shift, we just didn't know the mechanics behind it. Dude did a good job explaining it. Thanks for posting. I wish he would have gone into the effects of Pandora and Spotify. Talk about really killing radio!

maroon barchetta said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Big Al 1992 said:

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Reminds me of the KLOL days - rock stars coming to the station, concert announcements, and the DJs were rock stars themselves. No one would have a Two-fer Tuesday anymore.

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Or playing an entire album..

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Metal Shop!!!

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Don't you mean MEH-MEH-MEH-MEH-MEH-MEH-MEH-MEH METAL SHOP

Big Al 1992 said:

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Reminds me of the KLOL days - rock stars coming to the station, concert announcements, and the DJs were rock stars themselves. No one would have a Two-fer Tuesday anymore.

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I remember Jimmy Page was coming to town on his solo tour, and that idiot Moby on 93.7 said he was going to be interviewing him the next day. He said he really didn't know much about Page and asked listeners to call in with some questions. Imbecile, go to a Country station.

Hated that dude and the whole "Hawaiian shirts" Friday bit. And the Morning Zoo was for complete morons.

That depends on what you mean by killing rock music. If you mean radio or industry then yeah it did. If you mean concerts then no absolutely not. Rock music, when combined with classic rock blows away the next category of music by concert attendance. They had to split rock and classic rock just to make it not look so dominant. They are still 2 and 3 on the list.

Micro machines >>>> Nanomachines

As someone who still goes to lots of shows, the vast majority of which are rock, I absolutely believe that. I'm always amazed at which bands can still sell out large venues with no recent tours or offerings.

Live rock music is still very much alive and well.

It's really amazing that if you listen to XM channel 37 or 40 (Octane or Turbo), hardly ANY of those artists get FM radio play in Houston besides Linkin Park, Metallica and Pantera.

Sad really.

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

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As someone who still goes to lots of shows, the vast majority of which are rock, I absolutely believe that. I'm always amazed at which bands can still sell out large venues with no recent tours or offerings.

Live rock music is still very much alive and well.

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Over the past 3 years, I've seen Kansas, Styx/REO Speedwagon, and Chicago, all in front of healthy audiences. The only one actually touring in support of a new album was Styx (Crash of the Crown, which is fantastic).

Off the top of my head in the last couple years or so:

Metallica/Pantera
deftones
Smashing Pumpkins/Jane's Addiction
Tool
Foo Fighters
Black Keys/Band of Horses
bahamas
Houndmouth
Weezer
Lord Huron
Korn
RHCP
Slipknot
Gojira
Megadeth
311/Iration
Cold War Kids

I've slowed down with work and getting married and I'm definitely forgetting a few (and only listed "rock" shows) but all those shows were completely packed.

Gonna have to check out that new Styx album.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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And then, he forced us to drink some gross Cider drink before we left. But, it was a great time. Also cool getting to see the beginnings of a song that later came out on a friend's album.

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Any whisky drink? Vodka drink? Lager drink?

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I wish. As best as I can remember it was this gross Apple Cider Vinegar drink:
https://www.bragg.com/products/organic-apple-cider-vinegar?variant=39529423011936

My friend was on some sort of cleanse. Part of the weird stuff artists do.

Quote:

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Live rock music is still very much alive and well.

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I agree, At least for another 10-15 years. Most of the rock artists on your list are 50+.

It would seem to me there would be a market for a rock & roll internet radio station that played whatever TF they wanted, new or old and could break some new bands.
Local rock radio where I am is a mix of Grunge (Pearl Jam & Nirvana mostly), classic rock staples (Aerosmith, Journey, Skynrd, Ozzie, Boston) and new rock.... which is 15 year old RHCP or maybe Weezer.

I recall listening to the Black Keys on JRE Podcast, they said they were in Europe & listed to rock radio over there. Said it was bada$$ with all sorts of bands that don't get airplay here.
Wish I could find that radio station.

It is pretty eye opening for people like me. I am loving this new age of people being more open and transparent about showbiz. I had heard for years and years that the music studio world is dark and VERY shady. Especially in country music but spread across all others as well. It's an ugly world and dog eat dog mentality. Seeing how the sausage is made definitely makes me look at things in a new light for sure.

Another great resource, especially for venues, is Tank the Tech. He's been doing some open and honest discourse videos for a little while now. Mainly rock and metal scene but he details others as well like country. These kinds of videos is the kind of stuff I love to watch. The behind the scenes goings on and number attached.

Eliminatus said:

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It is pretty eye opening for people like me. I am loving this new age of people being more open and transparent about showbiz.

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I think you'll see it more and more. The creative types that are often the first to get laid off...for the last 10+ years they've also run social media accounts for their shows or stations as part of their job and then they get let go in a cost cutting move. So a lot of those types have the ability to throw something together pretty easily and since they know on air jobs are disappearing...there's basically no more bridges to burn. It makes it super easy when your favored career options are no longer available. Why hold back?

superunknown said:

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Eliminatus said:

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It is pretty eye opening for people like me. I am loving this new age of people being more open and transparent about showbiz.

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I think you'll see it more and more. The creative types that are often the first to get laid off...for the last 10+ years they've also run social media accounts for their shows or stations as part of their job and then they get let go in a cost cutting move. So a lot of those types have the ability to throw something together pretty easily and since they know on air jobs are disappearing...there's basically no more bridges to burn. It makes it super easy when your favored career options are no longer available. Why hold back?

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I definitely like and appreciate the "tell all" angles but a lot of the mundane background stuff is also cool to see addressed and helps explain things along the way. I think a good example is another Tank video where he discusses price matching for merch. Something I have run into before and been confused as hell. Nothing industry shattering but cool to have an insider address it.



It was considered taboo for so long to even whisper things like expenses and costs and logistics and profits in the music industry for decades. But this new era of social media people are definitely shining a light on these topics and I think that is very valuable to the consumer. Seen some great exposs on the TicketMaster monopoly, how much bands are charged by their labels, and on down to how security works at venues and everything in between.