Skillet Shot said:

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bluefire579 said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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The truth is, it doesn't.

So we're left with, 1) what they did; 2) making him straight and known; or 3) never mentioning it.


Does it take away anything if they go with route 3?

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For you, no. But having numerous gay friends, for them and having heard what they've gone through their entire lives, it absolutely takes a lot away.

Maybe just understand that not every movie is for you and move on from it.

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A lot of people decided this movie wasn't for them and moved on from it. That's why it bombed at the box office.

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Ah yes, I too never shut the **** up about something I've moved on from. Perfectly natural.

schmendeler said:

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They are just so committed to there being nothing extraneous beyond the bare essentials of plot. That's all.

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Can you share with me one time since Thor Ragnarok that Disney (or Universal) made a LGBTQ+ character a villain or someone who had no redeeming moment in the end? Or for that matter, how about a woman or POC unless the protagonist was also woman or POC?

I admit I haven't kept up on all the Disney/Universal shows, but given the commitment to representation, I'm assuming I'm missing some.

So, since the last time your weird criteria were met, you want another one?

schmendeler said:

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So, since the last time your weird criteria were met, you want another one?

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You could just answer the question, since I've stated the creative issues about this before, and I've stated it in this thread earlier.

I know this gets past the simple minded that only know how to play the racism, sexism or heterosexism card whenever this is discussed, but I shouldn't be able to look at the demographics of a character the first time they are introduced and know how this character is going to be portrayed.

Interesting

Disney CEO Bob Iger tells employees he wants to 'quiet' down culture wars, 'respect' the audience | Fox Business

Quote:

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Another town hall question was about the Florida Parental Rights in Education Act, which critics have dubbed it the "don't say gay" law. Iger answered cautiously, noting, "When you tell stories, there's a delicate balance. You're talking to an audience, but it's also important to listen to an audience. It's important to have respect for the people you are serving, that you are trying to reach and not have disdain from."

Chapek's tenure saw the battle with Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis and Florida over the parental rights bill. Chapek criticized the bill, vowing the company would work hard to repeal it. Republicans in the state legislature moved to strip Disney of its self-governing status. According to Rufo, the latest comments by Iger indicate "an important shift. Iger is signaling that Disney is moderating its position in the culture war."

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bluefire579 said:

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Skillet Shot said:

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bluefire579 said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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The truth is, it doesn't.

So we're left with, 1) what they did; 2) making him straight and known; or 3) never mentioning it.


Does it take away anything if they go with route 3?

---

For you, no. But having numerous gay friends, for them and having heard what they've gone through their entire lives, it absolutely takes a lot away.

Maybe just understand that not every movie is for you and move on from it.

---

A lot of people decided this movie wasn't for them and moved on from it. That's why it bombed at the box office.

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Ah yes, I too never shut the **** up about something I've moved on from. Perfectly natural.

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Ah yes, the classic leftist trope after putting out overtly political content and getting backlash - "why do you care so much?" The question should be why does Disney care so much about identity politics and woke messaging to sabotage their profits and isolate their main consumer base - traditional American families of ALL races.

Also, It is perfectly natural to discuss why the movie bombed in a thread titled " SIAP - Disney's Strange World absolutely bombing"

bluefire579 said:

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Skillet Shot said:

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bluefire579 said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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The truth is, it doesn't.

So we're left with, 1) what they did; 2) making him straight and known; or 3) never mentioning it.


Does it take away anything if they go with route 3?

---

For you, no. But having numerous gay friends, for them and having heard what they've gone through their entire lives, it absolutely takes a lot away.

Maybe just understand that not every movie is for you and move on from it.

---

A lot of people decided this movie wasn't for them and moved on from it. That's why it bombed at the box office.

---

Ah yes, I too never shut the **** up about something I've moved on from. Perfectly natural.

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This seems personal to you for some reason.

We're all very sorry, bro.

I went to see this movie cause I was intrigued by the lack of promotion and had nothing to do that evening after work. The movie I felt was stale, like a movie they could've just released on Disney Plus. The animation was gorgeous for sure but I can't remember the name of a single character now

Word of mouth, reviews, online reception is all heavily politicized (look at this thread). The main feedback that movie productions are getting back is all about how whitewashed it was or how woke it was. This being the dominant facet of our culture right now leads to films that are heavily curated and massaged. Most films especially Disney are probably trying to tiptoe directly on the black line between the two sides and failing miserably. Also the fact that the media algorithms are not really impartial (a slice of people interacting on the internet is not the same as a slice of real life) probably also leads them to **** it up royally most of the time too.

Holy hell - the Monday box office for this was $433k.

JJxvi said:

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Word of mouth, reviews, online reception is all heavily politicized (look at this thread). The main feedback that movie productions are getting back is all about how whitewashed it was or how woke it was. This being the dominant facet of our culture right now leads to films that are heavily curated and massaged. Most films especially Disney are probably trying to tiptoe directly on the black line between the two sides and failing miserably. Also the fact that the media algorithms are not really impartial (a slice of people interacting on the internet is not the same as a slice of real life) probably also leads them to **** it up royally most of the time too.

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There is no attempt at tip-toeing the line. They are cramming one side down parent's throats, and guess what, we refuse to go see movies that do that.

The Collective said:

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Holy hell - the Monday box office for this was $433k.

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I mean, what was the box office going to be for a kids movie on the Monday after a week-long Thanksgiving break?

I saw this one with my elementary aged kids last Wednesday without knowing what it was about or any of the political/woke drama. I was looking for something to do with the kids, and my wife suggested I take them to the new kids movie.

It was a crappy movie. Not because of the mixed race family or the gay character or the environmentalist agenda. It was just a crappy movie. I've seen almost every kids movie released in theaters for the past decade, and I generally like most of them, definitely not this one though.

I asked my kids what they liked most about the movie. My oldest said the popcorn and ICEE I bought him. My middle said "sooo… the whole movie was just inside that big turtle?…that's weird". My youngest said she liked the flamethrower that the guy made. They didn't have much else to say about it.

The number of parents who have any idea about any agenda (real or not) for this film is minuscule relative to the greater moviegoing audience.

It was poorly marketed and doesn't sound like it was very good, it's not any more complicated than that.

I thought it was alright.

Churlish Sambino said:

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I saw this one with my elementary aged kids last Wednesday without knowing what it was about or any of the political/woke drama. I was looking for something to do with the kids, and my wife suggested I take them to the new kids movie.

It was a crappy movie. Not because of the mixed race family or the gay character or the environmentalist agenda. It was just a crappy movie. I've seen almost every kids movie released in theaters for the past decade, and I generally like most of them, definitely not this one though.

I asked my kids what they liked most about the movie. My oldest said the popcorn and ICEE I bought him. My middle said "sooo… the whole movie was just inside that big turtle?…that's weird". My youngest said she liked the flamethrower that the guy made. They didn't have much else to say about it.

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Whoa......don't try to discuss plot or character development here.

Clearly, you didn't like it because of your heterosexism and anti-wokism perspective.

Stop moving goalposts!!!

Global Warming said:

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I thought it was alright.

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Username checks out

These culture arguments are becoming exhausting.

Movie had strange highs and strange lows.

Faustus said:

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Movie had strange highs and strange lows.

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Sounds like climate change.

Gaius Rufus said:

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maroon barchetta said:

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Aggie_Journalist said:

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It's a weird sickness that convinces people that gay characters and mixed-race couples only exist because of "wokeness" (whatever that is) and not because gay people and mixed raced couples exist in the real world.

Y'all really need to get help. You'll enjoy life much more when you get over this strange obsession.

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I think it's because it's so forced. The demographics being featured are such a small percentage of the population. Yet commercials and tv and movies would have you believe it's every other person or couple.

Never heard of this movie.

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Why do you believe stories about mixed-race couples are being forced on you?

Why does it bother you that media focused on non-white characters is produced?

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It doesn't, I have liked many movies with non-white characters. The problem is when they do this and push an agenda that whites are bad. In the 1990s and 2000s this basically never happened, now I assume any movie with non-whites being featured is going to push a political narrative.

Where are the movies like Bad Boys or the Blade Trilogy? Why is it necessary to preach to me instead of making a solid movie? It seems that the former is now the focus instead of the latter.

fig96 said:

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The number of parents who have any idea about any agenda (real or not) for this film is minuscule relative to the greater moviegoing audience.

It was poorly marketed and doesn't sound like it was very good, it's not any more complicated than that.

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It is more complicated than that, starting with Disney having a streaming problem they need to address.

Parents with D+ know the movie will be shown there relatively quickly. Encanto was a good movie that should have done much better in box office, but it would have done much better in the days before D+ because parents now have almost 3 years of movie to streaming service conditioning, especially on Disney+. They have to figure out how to make a Disney movie that will get parents to take young kids to the theater.

tk for tu juan said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Just to play devil's advocate, what is a movie celebrating white culture?

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Days of Thunder

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Apollo 13
Braveheart
Gladiator

I could name many others, but these are 3 of the biggest ones.

Not to mention the fact that Disney took their stance over the last few years on the political side of things. I know there is a smaller % that care about that, but it does matter. Before the last few years, we absolutely saw almost anything animated (especially Disney) in theaters the first weekend as a family. Now that we have grown tired of seeing movies with cultural messages crammed down our throats (not just kids movies here), we absolutely wait to see if there are issues in there that we do not feel like exposing our children to before they are ready to have a conversation about it.

Label me however you want to, but Disney made their bed and now they are losing customers over it. I dont care if I am a small % customer - I know a ton of families that are the exact same way....

BoydCrowder13 said:

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I think you see Disney take a step back from these types of projects in the next couple years. With Iger coming back, they are clearly alarmed at the financial missteps of the last couple years.

They have the data they need to make good financial decisions with their properties:

Pixar: make thoughtful and challenging family movies like Inside Out, Coco, Up, etc. Stay away from sequels unless you have a natural next step

Star Wars: Throw money at Filoni and the Andor team and keep focused on the expanded universe for a while. No Jedi's or Skywalkers.

Marvel: Phase 1-3. Get back to that

Core Disney: The successful and natural way of introducing more diversity is to continue introducing more worldwide setting films. Moana (Polynesian), Frozen (Scandinavian), Encanto (Central America), Raya (Asian). Also focus on unique settings (Wreck it Ralph). All of those films have been great and expanded the Disney footprint and fanbase naturally. It didn't feel forced.

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With the success of Minions and the upcoming Mario movie (there is no way Nintendo won't stop with just that when Mario makes a billion dollars), Disney is being crushed in the animated movie arena.

They have to recognize that kids don't want any of this political crap and they just want fun/entertaining movies. Parents just want a good wholesome story where they don't have to worry about what their kids see.

Disney has completely lost touch with families, for whatever reason they seem to think their audience is adult leftists instead of what it always was: kids and families. Since the latter tends to be conservative, they have basically alienated their primary viewers.

CDub06 said:

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Faustus said:

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Movie had strange highs and strange lows.

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Sounds like climate change.

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I was shooting for Depeche Mode, but that works too.

The Porkchop Express said:

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The Collective said:

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Holy hell - the Monday box office for this was $433k.

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I mean, what was the box office going to be for a kids movie on the Monday after a week-long Thanksgiving break?

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Monday after Thanksgiving:
Frozen 2 did over 3 million.
Ralph breaks the internet over 2 million.
Coco over 2 million.
Moana over 2 million.

Iowaggie said:

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fig96 said:

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The number of parents who have any idea about any agenda (real or not) for this film is minuscule relative to the greater moviegoing audience.

It was poorly marketed and doesn't sound like it was very good, it's not any more complicated than that.

---

It is more complicated than that, starting with Disney having a streaming problem they need to address.

Parents with D+ know the movie will be shown there relatively quickly. Encanto was a good movie that should have done much better in box office, but it would have done much better in the days before D+ because parents now have almost 3 years of movie to streaming service conditioning, especially on Disney+. They have to figure out how to make a Disney movie that will get parents to take young kids to the theater.

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Good point, this is also very relevant and I think a much bigger impact than any culture war argument.

If you look at animated box office there's only one film in the top 15 made after 2019, the last Minions film (which happens to be the highest grossing animated franchise of all time). After that the next highest grossing film is an Asian film I've never heard of at #53 then Sing 2 at #66.

Even if these recent Disney films were excellent there's not much chance they'd have approached pre-pandemic numbers.

bluefire579 said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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The truth is, it doesn't.

So we're left with, 1) what they did; 2) making him straight and known; or 3) never mentioning it.


Does it take away anything if they go with route 3?

---

For you, no. But having numerous gay friends, for them and having heard what they've gone through their entire lives, it absolutely takes a lot away.

Maybe just understand that not every movie is for you and move on from it.

---

The issue here is this movie is made for kids. To me, it is a mistake to bring homosexuality into a children's movie, and it appears many agree from the box office standpoint and from certain members within Disney. I have no issue with homosexual issues being represented in adult movies, but when it comes to children's movies, I feel the parent should be in charge of when to introduce that complex level of sexuality. Keep these simple, fun and well written.

Finally, to me it is demeaning to the group the way a lot of these issues and characters have been forced into these stories when they absolutely added nothing to the story. It undercuts their actual struggles and makes their plight seem pointless plus if there is a good story to write about a gay teen, why waste it in this platform? Again, stick to writing good stories, let parents decide when to teach their children about these issues/situations. My 7-year-old isn't ready for all of that. He just wants to see this movie b/c he likes the dog. Let that sink in. Your target audience doesn't GAF about a gay teen and his issues. They care about cute dogs. Focus on that. Leave the issues of gay teens to a more mature audience....

Urban Ag said:

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Interesting

Disney CEO Bob Iger tells employees he wants to 'quiet' down culture wars, 'respect' the audience | Fox Business

Quote:

---

Another town hall question was about the Florida Parental Rights in Education Act, which critics have dubbed it the "don't say gay" law. Iger answered cautiously, noting, "When you tell stories, there's a delicate balance. You're talking to an audience, but it's also important to listen to an audience. It's important to have respect for the people you are serving, that you are trying to reach and not have disdain from."

Chapek's tenure saw the battle with Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis and Florida over the parental rights bill. Chapek criticized the bill, vowing the company would work hard to repeal it. Republicans in the state legislature moved to strip Disney of its self-governing status. According to Rufo, the latest comments by Iger indicate "an important shift. Iger is signaling that Disney is moderating its position in the culture war."

---

---

Uh, why was a FILM COMPANY engaged in "culture wars"?!?!

Capitol Ag said:

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bluefire579 said:

---

OnlyForNow said:

---

The truth is, it doesn't.

So we're left with, 1) what they did; 2) making him straight and known; or 3) never mentioning it.


Does it take away anything if they go with route 3?

---

For you, no. But having numerous gay friends, for them and having heard what they've gone through their entire lives, it absolutely takes a lot away.

Maybe just understand that not every movie is for you and move on from it.

---

The issue here is this movie is made for kids. To me, it is a mistake to bring homosexuality into a children's movie, and it appears many agree from the box office standpoint and from certain members within Disney. I have no issue with homosexual issues being represented in adult movies, but when it comes to children's movies, I feel the parent should be in charge of when to introduce that complex level of sexuality. Keep these simple, fun and well written.

Finally, to me it is demeaning to the group the way a lot of these issues and characters have been forced into these stories when they absolutely added nothing to the story. It undercuts their actual struggles and makes their plight seem pointless plus if there is a good story to write about a gay teen, why waste it in this platform? Again, stick to writing good stories, let parents decide when to teach their children about these issues/situations. My 7-year-old isn't ready for all of that. He just wants to see this movie b/c he likes the dog. Let that sink in. Your target audience doesn't GAF about a gay teen and his issues. They care about cute dogs. Focus on that. Leave the issues of gay teens to a more mature audience....

---

So the fact there was a passing mention of the character being gay makes it a movie introducing complex levels of sexuality?

I do agree that it is a streaming problem. I can't recall the last time we took our kids to the movies for a "kid movie". It might be when my wife took my daughter to see Frozen 2, so pre-pandemic. Pretty crazy.

Except that it isn't just a passing mention of him being gay. It is him shown being nervous, and flirting with another boy. You don't understand why parents dont want to have to explain that to a 7 or 8 year old?

fig96 said:

---

Capitol Ag said:

---

bluefire579 said:

---

OnlyForNow said:

---

The truth is, it doesn't.

So we're left with, 1) what they did; 2) making him straight and known; or 3) never mentioning it.


Does it take away anything if they go with route 3?

---

For you, no. But having numerous gay friends, for them and having heard what they've gone through their entire lives, it absolutely takes a lot away.

Maybe just understand that not every movie is for you and move on from it.

---

The issue here is this movie is made for kids. To me, it is a mistake to bring homosexuality into a children's movie, and it appears many agree from the box office standpoint and from certain members within Disney. I have no issue with homosexual issues being represented in adult movies, but when it comes to children's movies, I feel the parent should be in charge of when to introduce that complex level of sexuality. Keep these simple, fun and well written.

Finally, to me it is demeaning to the group the way a lot of these issues and characters have been forced into these stories when they absolutely added nothing to the story. It undercuts their actual struggles and makes their plight seem pointless plus if there is a good story to write about a gay teen, why waste it in this platform? Again, stick to writing good stories, let parents decide when to teach their children about these issues/situations. My 7-year-old isn't ready for all of that. He just wants to see this movie b/c he likes the dog. Let that sink in. Your target audience doesn't GAF about a gay teen and his issues. They care about cute dogs. Focus on that. Leave the issues of gay teens to a more mature audience....

---

So the fact there was a passing mention of the character being gay makes it a movie introducing complex levels of sexuality?

---

Honestly, yes. There's absolutely no reason to bring that into a children's story, in my opinion and further, I think Hollywood is starting to realize this. And it's not just sexuality. The climate change issue as well. Sure, it's an important issue to debate, no doubt. But this is a children's movie and the debate is a complex one. I do not really want to leave this to a bunch of screen writers to try to accurately depict climate change to little kids. Again, the kids want the dog, not the lesson...

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned: you people saying you didn't see if because of your anti whatever argument weren't going to see it anyway. Animated scifi is historically a terrible idea and almost never does well at the box office.

Anyone want to name the last successful animated scifi film at the box office? That would be 2014's Big Hero 6 (that was more superhero movie than scifi). Other than that you could probably include Wall-e (2008) or maybe Lilo & Stich (2002). And that's pretty much it.

There's been many good to great animated scifi movies that have bombed at the box office (Atlantis, The Iron Giant, Treasure Planet, Titan AE) not to mention a whole lot of live action scifi bombs.

So yeah, maybe some people stayed away because of a value difference. But the chances of this or Lightyear being big successes were minimal from the jump.