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Can you separate art from the artist?

4,370 Views | 50 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by PatAg
AustinAg2K
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This is probably a question for the politics board, but I am almost certain I know how they will answer. Anyways, I saw some clips of The Cosby Show earlier and I still found them to be quite funny. It really makes me sad that he turned out to be such a terrible person, but I don't really have a huge problem watching his show. I don't really have an issue separating Bill Cosby from Cliff Huxtable. I also still crank up Thriller when it comes on the radio. Maybe it's because I've never really put celebrities up on a pedestal. I figure most of them are pretty terrible people in real life (although Cosby and MJ are on a whole other level).

Anyways, I'm just curious what others takes are. Does the behavior of an actor/musician/artist/etc. in real life affect your ability to enjoy their work? Does it make a difference if they are still actively working vs being retired/dead/etc?
redd38
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I have zero problem enjoying art from a terrible person. I'm not punishing MJ at all by not listening to his music, I'm only punishing myself. So why would I do that?
Vernada
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Quote:

Does the behavior of an actor/musician/artist/etc. in real life affect your ability to enjoy their work?


Mostly no.
Head Ninja In Charge
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Michael Jackson, Kanye West, Future, and Morrissey are each in my top 10 favorite artists of all-time, so yeah, no separation problem at all.
expresswrittenconsent
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I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.
Sex Panther
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Head Ninja In Charge said:

Michael Jackson, Kanye West, Future, and Morrissey are each in my top 10 favorite artists of all-time, so yeah, no separation problem at all.

What's the issue with Future?
bobinator
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I think it's a lot easier to separate if they're dead and no longer making any money off their work. When they're alive it's a lot harder because you could still be putting money in their pocket which is something I have a hard time reconciling in my head.
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PatAg
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redd38 said:

I have zero problem enjoying art from a terrible person. I'm not punishing MJ at all by not listening to his music, I'm only punishing myself. So why would I do that?
Same. Especially when they are actors, as opposed to musicians. They are literally pretending to be other people anytime you see them in a movie or show, why does it matter what they are like
c-jags
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Vernada said:

Quote:

Does the behavior of an actor/musician/artist/etc. in real life affect your ability to enjoy their work?


Mostly no.


Mostly no as well. Their language has to be really blatant attack on me or terrible terrible behavior the name of politics. Or just terrible behavior (MJ, Cosby, etc.) I'm fine with Hollywood running around thinking they're smarter and more enlightened than me. You want to bash Trump? Fine. He's an a-hole and deserves it most of the time. I say that as a really conservative guy. When they make a blanket statement me as a white male (that I don't give two sh*ts about being) I'm done.

Jane Fonda, Sean Penn, Regina King, and Brie Larson have earned this distinction. I'm sure there are others but those are just ones I know about currently. I try not to hear what Hollywood thinks as often as possible since most of them are uneducated and live a charmed life.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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How about OJ? Cuz he's hilarious in The Naked Gun.
bearamedic99
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expresswrittenconsent said:

I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.


What did Knox do? Besides so-so art?
The Debt
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Cosby's comedy special where hes sitting in a chair is still one of the greatest standup specials ever made. The guy can pull an audience like none other.

It's why I never understood the allegations against him. Maybe ladies thought he was too folksy to fk...who knows.
Brian Earl Spilner
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MJ's music
Belton Ag
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There's a huge difference between "Is a rapist monster" and "Has a different opinion than me."

For me it's easy to separate the latter, not so much the former.
expresswrittenconsent
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bearamedic99 said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.


What did Knox do? Besides so-so art?

So-so art? His human faces are worse than most 5yr olds drawing stick figures.
GiveEmHellBill
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Tom Cruise is the most prominent member of an absolutely batsh*t crazy "religion."

He used to be very vocal about his beliefs, but he has pretty much stopped talking about completely in the past 10 years or so.

He also makes insanely entertaining blockbuster movies that I enjoy immensely and is a very friendly and charming guy apparently.
Duncan Idaho
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expresswrittenconsent said:

I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.

Gacy and hitler were terrible people in spite of their art.

Knox is a terrible person BECAUSE of his art.
AgPediRPh
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I am a huge Aerosmith fan and I like some of Ted Nugent's music. But it's hard for me to listen to either after I learned of their "adoption" girlfriends.
Claude!
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expresswrittenconsent said:

bearamedic99 said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.


What did Knox do? Besides so-so art?

So-so art? His human faces are worse than most 5yr olds drawing stick figures.


That's a little harsh, though his Bush 41 looks a lot like Lyle Waggoner.
$3 Sack of Groceries
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Claude! said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

bearamedic99 said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.


What did Knox do? Besides so-so art?

So-so art? His human faces are worse than most 5yr olds drawing stick figures.


That's a little harsh, though his Bush 41 looks a lot like Lyle Waggoner.



The prosecution rests, your honor.

rhutton125
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It does put me in a weird spot. I don't care at all about political affiliations, or comments in the media, or social views, etc. etc. etc. But I do feel weird jamming out to a rapist's songs.

I think my approach is to cut it out of my life for a while. Maybe it just makes me more aware of how messed some people are, and that I don't want to turn a blind eye to it just because "Ignition" is a crowd-pleaser.

That's not for everyone, but it's how I reconcile the ickiness in my head. And yes, if I read more about some of my favorite classic rock bands, I'd probably be out of music to listen to.

It is weird though. I like Drake's music, but I don't like that he's a total creeper. Is it supporting him or excusing his rapey tendencies if I like a new song and recommend it to people? I don't know. I just don't know.
Duncan Idaho
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That is either the tiniest dental pick or the largest teeth ever painted.
Counterpoint
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Sex Panther said:

Head Ninja In Charge said:

Michael Jackson, Kanye West, Future, and Morrissey are each in my top 10 favorite artists of all-time, so yeah, no separation problem at all.

What's the issue with Future?
This!
Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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Yelnick McWawa said:

Claude! said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

bearamedic99 said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

I've got 1 Gacy & 1 Hitler, but people always ask me about the Benji Knox stuff.
Have you ever tried to get a Bob Ross original from the show? They're surprisingly crazy expensive.


What did Knox do? Besides so-so art?

So-so art? His human faces are worse than most 5yr olds drawing stick figures.


That's a little harsh, though his Bush 41 looks a lot like Lyle Waggoner.



The prosecution rests, your honor.






wait...is this real? like for real for real?

holy *****
Liquid Wrench
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If I couldn't separate enjoyment of art from my politics, I'd be stuck watching Major Dad and listening to Lee Greenwood.

Doesn't stop me from *****ing sometimes, though. They have their right to expression and I have mine.
aTmAg
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I can't separate it. I don't want to give any a-hole, who is fighting to take away my rights, any more money that would amplify his ability to do so.
PanzerAggie06
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No real problem separating the two. Politically speaking actors/musicians have, for the most part, been lefties since as long as I can remember. Without looking it up I'd be hard pressed to name more than three right leaning entertainers. Guys like Cosby and Jackson, not so much. Both seem to be predators and that's to much to look past.
TCTTS
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Leaving Neverland is maybe the most disturbing thing I've ever seen. Just the most captivating, horrifying, and disgusting four hours I can remember watching. Months after I saw it, every time I heard a Michael Jackson song in public, I would think to myself, "How can you guys possibly be playing this?" It's only relatively recently that I've finally been able to somewhat separate the art from the artist and at least find myself tapping my foot again to the beat or dancing to it at a party or whatever. But I don't know that I'll ever actively choose to listen to his music again, and I was a huge, huge fan. I for sure won't ever not be able think, "Sick ******* child rapist" the second one of his songs starts, but I just can't bring myself to veto his music completely. It's too damn good and too ubiquitous to fully "cancel."

Cosby is somewhat similar, but the only reason I haven't seen a Cosby episode recently isn't because I've vetoed them or whatever, but because they don't exist on TV anymore. I think if I randomly saw one on I could watch and enjoy it, but only because of the rest of the cast. I feel like that's what separates this situation from Jackson is that so many other amazing talents were involved and it doesn't feel fair to excommunicate them as well. I remember when I was a kid I used to only know how long something was going to be, time-wise, in terms of "Cosby shows." Growing up, it took ten Cosby shows (five hours) to get to College Station from my hometown. And when I'd ask my parents how much longer we had, they'd say something like, "Four more Cosby Shows." Mind you, I wasn't actually watching episodes in the car, but I loved the show so much and watched it so often that it became a literal measurement of time for me. So I just don't see how I could ever totally eliminate that fondness for it, no matter how sick Cosby turned out to be.

In other words, I'd say it's case by case, situation by situation for me, and more often than not I can't just completely cut something out of my life that I once loved. As has already been mentioned, yeah, I abhor everything Tom Cruise is personally involved in as well, Scientology-wise, but it has never once affected my enjoyment of his films. He might even be my favorite actor. But I've never liked R. Kelly, so it's easy for me to say, "*****that guy" and never listen to his music again. I'm sure some would consider that approach hypocritical, and I would agree 100% that it is. But art is like food in that you like what you like. You can't choose to not like something, you can only choose to avoid it, and if we had to avoid everything from every artist who was really a piece of sh*t, there wouldn't be much art to enjoy. That, and I don't believe in "good" people or "bad" people. Just "people." Sometime people do terrible, horrible things, and sometimes they actively should be "cancelled," but that doesn't mean they're not capable of making worthwhile art that we can enjoy and maybe even learn from.

Though, in general, I do agree with the shouldn't-profit-when-they're-alive thing, even though that's blurry as hell too. Again, should the entire rest of the Cosby cast have to "suffer" in terms of residuals because of Cosby's actions? The guy who played Elvin was literally caught on camera bagging groceries just a few months ago, and it became this whole huge thing. I'm not saying that bagging groceries isn't a worthwhile job or should be considered "suffering," but he was living one way when the shows still aired and then had to live another way because of something that was completely out of his control. Similarly, should the casts of every Weinstein movie be "punished" should his movies eventually stop playing on cable?

It's impossible to know where to draw the line on some of this stuff, in so many ways. Hence why I usually just go with my gut, even if that means not being consistent in how I approach each respective situation.
c-jags
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Quote:

It's impossible to know where to draw the line on some of this stuff, in so many ways. Hence why I usually just go with my gut, even if that means not being consistent in how I approach each respective situation


Well put.

I'm on the different side of any issue most often (not things like MJ, Cosby, etc. ) than you but what will set out me off of enjoying somebody's work is a moving target. Some actors have said some/done things that I can blow off, and sometimes it merits an "I'm out."

i.e. other people have said less offensive things than Sean Gunn, yet turned me off more.
AustinAg2K
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TCTTS said:

I'd say it's case by case
I do think if I heard "I Believe I Can Fly" on the radio, I'd be like, "F'in rapist!" and immediately change the station... However, if "Ignition" came on, I'd be like, "Hell yeah!"
expresswrittenconsent
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AustinAg2K said:

TCTTS said:

I'd say it's case by case
I do think if I heard "I Believe I Can Fly" on the radio, I'd be like, "F'in rapist!" and immediately change the station... However, if "Ignition" came on, I'd be like, "Hell yeah!"

True. When Stranglehold comes on, I'm like 'turn it up!', but Cat Scratch Fever comes on and I'm like 'really, this pedophile again?'
Bruce Almighty
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I can't think of a single person I've boycotted because of their beliefs or things they've done. If Spielberg murdered his wife, I doubt I'd stop watching his movies.
Liquid Wrench
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I remember sitting in hour+ cab ride in Chicago about two months after Michael Jackson died, and the radio was on some station that had converted to all-Michael Jackson music. They were celebrating his life and legacy like a hometown hero or something. It was like being in a different world, where they either didn't know or didn't believe any of the allegations. Seemed a little weird to me, but the driver was dancing and singing along to every song.
Gigem314
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MuckRaker96 said:

How about OJ? Cuz he's hilarious in The Naked Gun.
It was a killer performance...
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