Star Wars Rewatch Project: EPISODE I - THE PHANTOM MENACE

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oragator
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Somewhere around a year after it's release, it officially became illegal to praise the movie in any way. It didn't make a billion dollars twenty years ago when that was nearly impossible, simply out of nostalgia. It is still top 20 all time in total tickets sold domestically.

That said, Lucas's obsession with CGI over the grittiness of the original that started with ROTJ was terrible, and JarJar can die in a fire, but I have always believed it got way more grief than it ever deserved, for the simple reason that nothing could ever live up to the greatest moments (4 and 5 and to a lesser extent 6) from our childhoods. It was an impossible task.

The other thing that I will say for it, is that for its faults, it and the rest of the prequels at least tried to expand the universe and set the back story with new and interesting characters, places, ideas, and broad and interesting storylines on what we knew must have happened.

7 on the other hand was supposed to be the beginning of a culmination of almost 40 years of waiting to learn the end story, and instead we got a glorified reboot (see ripoff) with almost nothing new idea wise (and worse yet another Death Star destruction for a climax which was borderline insulting), and bizarrely that gets endless praise, and TPM gets scorn.

So for me it was fine for what it tried to do overall even if far from perfect. Felt that when I left the theater opening weekend and still feel it now.
hph6203
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It's the best of the prequels, because a kid acting as well as Hayden Christensen is acceptable. Hayden Christensen acting as well as a kid is not. It's like he watched the first movie and decided bad acting was part of his character's backstory.
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Al Bula
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I'm not a gamer but I had the PC Phantom Menace game and it was great for 1999.

I stood in line to buy tickets to the movie all day for the midnight showing. It's an OK movie mostly for nostalgia.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Podracer game for N64 was awesome.
AliasMan02
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The most baffling thing about TPM, even today, is the complete disregard it shows the OT lore. Everything we know about Anakin and Obi-Wan, and to a large extent the Jedi as a whole, from the OT was totally undone by TPM.
Render
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I was always baffled why Lucas made the Jedi robes the same style as Obi-Wan's hermit robes. That means Obi-Wan did a very poor job of hiding away during his exile - he's literally still wearing the official uniform of the Jedi.

Edit: Plus they never explained the Chosen One prophecy in TPM. That should have been a main plot point - what it is, who wrote it, when? etc etc...
Brian Earl Spilner
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Is it actually the "uniform", though? Anakin's robes were always different in Eps II and III. I think each Jedi chose their own robes, and Obi-Wan just chose to keep wearing what he always wore.

The head scratcher is Luke still wearing his Jedi robes in TFA even though he claimed to no longer be a Jedi.
Render
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Yeah Anakin changed his robes, but he's the only one I can think of, though. Kenobi, Mace, Jinn, and all the other Jedi have the same robes, for example.

I didn't realize that about Luke! Haha, maybe those were the only clothes he had?
Render
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In retrospect, I do appreciate how different TPM's plot and aesthetics were. Nowadays, sci-fi and action seems to just repackage the same plots and designs over and over. So I like how utterly different TPM is.
redline248
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The point about Maul being killed off is a pretty good one. How much better would it have been for Anakin to kill him in 3, instead of Dooku, in a rival sort of way to be Palps #1.

I kind of get why he had to die in 1, though
AliasMan02
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Render said:

I was always baffled why Lucas made the Jedi robes the same style as Obi-Wan's hermit robes. That means Obi-Wan did a very poor job of hiding away during his exile - he's literally still wearing the official uniform of the Jedi.

Edit: Plus they never explained the Chosen One prophecy in TPM. That should have been a main plot point - what it is, who wrote it, when? etc etc...

It's pretty clear in ANH that Kenobi was wearing the robes of a desert dweller, like Owen. The fact that they were "Jedi robes" is something that was invented in TPM. Exactly the sort of things it disregarded. It was weird.
double aught
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I agree with TC. The few non-CGI items draw you in. Real Yoda! Real desert! There's none of that in II and III.
AliasMan02
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double aught said:

I agree with TC. The few non-CGI items draw you in. Real Yoda! Real desert! There's none of that in II and III.

TPM also used more miniature/practical sets than any other Star Wars film. The city in Naboo was pretty much all built to scale and filmed.
TV Casualty
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Samuel L. Jackson as a Sith apprentice would have been awesome. Should have introduced him as a trusted Jedi only to reveal later that he was part of the Sith.

AggieEP
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I'll never be able to like the movie because if how illogical it is.

Beyond the accidental destruction of the trade federation by an 8 year old, you also have the Jedi gambling on pod racing to get spare parts and freedom for anakin rather than just breaking out a Jedi charge card and just paying off mosquito man. It's hard for me to believe the guardians of the Republic and owners of a sweet tower on coruscant+training academy aren't well bankrolled enough. Or you know, just take the part in the name of the Republic promising future compensation.

And perhaps most illogical of all, the jerk ass jedis leave anakin's mom a slave setting up his fall to the dark side. I know the jedis are monkish and emotionless in the prequels but leaving her a slave is serious dark side coldness. Again free her and let her go live with uncle Owen and boom, no darth vader.
Render
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Are you suggesting the prequels are poorly written?
PatAg
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CJS4715 said:

jokershady said:

Maybe it's just that movie trailers have gotten so much better now compared to almost 20 years ago....but jeez the first trailer you posted is abysmal. The second one is better but still not by much.

At least those trailers don't make it pointless to go and see the movie. Give me a taste, not the whole meal.
Watch a trailer for the Matrix; it's about the same era. Trailers definitely do not hold up.
Belton Ag
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Quote:

And perhaps most illogical of all, the jerk ass jedis leave anakin's mom a slave setting up his fall to the dark side. I know the jedis are monkish and emotionless in the prequels but leaving her a slave is serious dark side coldness. Again free her and let her go live with uncle Owen and boom, no darth vader.
It was her going to live with Owen Lars (it was actually Owen's father she went to live with) that got her kidnapped by Sand People. Had she stayed a slave she probably would have lived.
Belton Ag
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The dialogue throughout most of that movie was cringeworthy at best. I remember sitting there laughing out loud at Baby Greedo "You're such a joker, Ani!" Awful.
Ag Since 83
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Best part of the movie is the ET cameo
AggieEP
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Just looked it up and I must have missed that in my rage over how much I disliked the movie. Still, that leads to more questions, could lars not give a phone call to Anakin asking for assistance with the whole abduction affair? Why does Anakin have to hear about it through premonitions?

Honestly most of my problem with the movie is that it sets up ludicrous plot lines like the force conceiving babies without ever exploring them further. The movie could have started with Ewan McGregor being Anakin and Liam Neeson being Obi Wan. His birth story could be handled in a prologue flashback and then start in with the main story of how he becomes corrupted to the dark side. Instead we meander through 2 hours of silly tasks while palpatine is pulling strings to manipulate people in some sort of 15 year plan to be appointed supreme chancellor. Now how the trade federation helps him achieve his goals is still fuzzy to me to this day.

I'd have just kept it simple. Ewan McGregor falls in love with Natalie Portman, Obi Wan chides him and reassign him to the outer rim, then Portman sneaks there and they continue their romance in defiance of the Jedi order setting up the means to blackmail Anakin. We can even have Portman be treacherous in this scenario and an agent of palpatine working to manipulate his emotions.
The Collective
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I've always wondered when Owen expressed that Anakin (a person he barely knows) should not have gotten involved.
Flashdiaz
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AggieEP said:

Just looked it up and I must have missed that in my rage over how much I disliked the movie. Still, that leads to more questions, could lars not give a phone call to Anakin asking for assistance with the whole abduction affair? Why does Anakin have to hear about it through premonitions?

Honestly most of my problem with the movie is that it sets up ludicrous plot lines like the force conceiving babies without ever exploring them further. The movie could have started with Ewan McGregor being Anakin and Liam Neeson being Obi Wan. His birth story could be handled in a prologue flashback and then start in with the main story of how he becomes corrupted to the dark side. Instead we meander through 2 hours of silly tasks while palpatine is pulling strings to manipulate people in some sort of 15 year plan to be appointed supreme chancellor. Now how the trade federation helps him achieve his goals is still fuzzy to me to this day.

I'd have just kept it simple. Ewan McGregor falls in love with Natalie Portman, Obi Wan chides him and reassign him to the outer rim, then Portman sneaks there and they continue their romance in defiance of the Jedi order setting up the means to blackmail Anakin. We can even have Portman be treacherous in this scenario and an agent of palpatine working to manipulate his emotions.
There were many problems with Ep 1 but those you listed are not them.

Lars and Shmi didn't have contact with Anakin at all... maybe Lars didn't know how to contact him or even think to contact a boy he's never met.

Palpatine is using the trade federation to create a war which is exactly what he needed to get himself elected and to get full power over the Senate. Becoming the dictator of the Galaxy and destroying all the Jedi is his ultimate goal and the trade federation played into it.
Flashdiaz
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Lars also said he was planning on going after Shmi after he healed.... healed from losing 2 legs?? Was he going to regrow them like a lizards tail?
Brian Earl Spilner
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CJS4715 said:

I've always wondered when Owen expressed that Anakin (a person he barely knows) should not have gotten involved.
Well Obi-Wan spends 20 years on Tatooine and has plenty of time to tell Owen all about Anakin.
chipotle
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Parliamentary procedure was never more action packed
mazag08
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Any serious movie attempting to have preteens as the main characters is almost always cringe worthy to me. There are so few quality child actors (not complaining.. just pointing it out), that you have to re imagine any dialogue by them in your head just to enjoy their roles. Even Harry Potter, which had ridiculously good child acting in the first movie, was extremely cringey to me. You just can't pull off serious with more than maybe one child actor in a film. Just my opinion.
The Collective
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Flashdiaz said:

Lars also said he was planning on going after Shmi after he healed.... healed from losing 2 legs?? Was he going to regrow them like a lizards tail?


He just needs someone to fashion a Bran Stark versioned saddle for his speeder. But I digress, we can have fun with this in February when we get to the abortion that is AOTC.
YellowPot_97
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Still love TPM
YellowPot_97
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AliasMan02 said:

Render said:

I was always baffled why Lucas made the Jedi robes the same style as Obi-Wan's hermit robes. That means Obi-Wan did a very poor job of hiding away during his exile - he's literally still wearing the official uniform of the Jedi.

Edit: Plus they never explained the Chosen One prophecy in TPM. That should have been a main plot point - what it is, who wrote it, when? etc etc...

It's pretty clear in ANH that Kenobi was wearing the robes of a desert dweller, like Owen. The fact that they were "Jedi robes" is something that was invented in TPM. Exactly the sort of things it disregarded. It was weird.
Wrong

Presley OBannons Sword
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

CJS4715 said:

I've always wondered when Owen expressed that Anakin (a person he barely knows) should not have gotten involved.
Well Obi-Wan spends 20 years on Tatooine and has plenty of time to tell Owen all about Anakin.

But that wizard was just a crazy old man
C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
John Matrix
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In the summer of 1999, I saw The Phantom Menace four times in theaters. Star Wars had been introduced to me by my mom when she rented all three old school VHS tapes when I was ten. From there, I taped all of them on USA when they aired, and eventually bought the badass VHS remastered box set that came out in 1995. I also saw the doctored original films upon rerelease in 1997. So, at the time of the release of The Phantom Menace, Star Wars was already an imbedded, personal, important part of my life. I bring all this up to provide a little context surrounding the fact that I was obsessed with this movie when it opened despite its very obvious flaws. Even at the time of seeing it, I loved it, but questions lingered in the back of my mind. Yeah, young death Vader is in this movie, but why is this movie not really about him? Why is there an entire sub plot about random amphibians in a pond? Who gives a **** about trade federations? It looked like Star Wars, had that iconic John Williams score, was even edited like Star Wars, but it didn't FEEl like Star Wars.Eventually the realization hit me: this is straight up not a good movie. While that seems fairly obvious now, it hit this Star Wars obsessed teenager like a bag of hammers. It was my first pop-culture disappointment. So, countless reassessments, viewings , and hatred-filled internet posts later, and The Phantom Menace's reputation as - childhood raping, cinematic cancer was created. What this rewatch revealed to me though is something far simpler. Now, after years of life experience and perspective, I see The Phantom Menace for what it is-a deeply flawed film that actually has some good ideas at it's core.

The Good:

Believe it or not, there's alot of good stuff going on in this film that could have the basis for something a lot better than the final product. For starters, Liam Neeson provides gravity and stability to some of the patented stilted George Lucas dialogue that really no other actor could. In later roles, Neeson would become a pro at making ridiculous scenarios and dialogue,( the Taken films,) believable. Harrison Ford was able to do that in the OT, and I really think it's one of the main elements that is severely missing from the other prequels-actors who can handle terrible dialogue. Qui Gon dying, while essential to Obi Wan's arc, probably doomed the prequels.

Now, the obvious high point of the film is the Darth Maul/Oni Won/Qui Gon light Sabre battle. in rewatching the film, it's just as thrilling, we'll-shot, emotional, and well-choreographed as I remember it being. It really suggests a more interesting and interesting conflict between the Sith and the Jedi that the film simply doesn't explore.

I know Jake Lloyd has gotten a ton of underserved **** for his performance here, and this rewatch basically confirms it wasn't warranted. For a child actor, he does fine. Unfortunately, if you know about Lloyd's history, he's basically never gotten over the dumb Ass and toxic fanboy hate that ensued. Even if he was as bad as people suggested, he didn't deserve it. Unfortunately this sector of Star Wars fandom would rerun with The Last Jedi. More on that when we re watch it. Ian Mcdramdcis also great in this, as he is in al of the prequels.

The Bad:

Kind of everything else sucks on this movie. One thing that really stuck out with this re watch was the fact the George Lucas, as he has endlessly suggested in the past, was making a film for kids, then inexplicably included complex politics about trade federations, blockades, senates, and political corruption. These two threads of the plot constantly clash and really clutter the story. So, you'll get a Jar Jar poop joke followed by A long lecture by Palpatine about corruption- it's whiplash inducing.

In speaking of story, the tight plot construction of the OT is thrown out in favor of coincidence, "jazz riffs", and other random plot elements that don't make a whole lint of sense. red Line media does a better job than i ever could jace explaining how the plot or this film makes no sense, so I won't even try. But it doesn't make sense. Rest assured.

This is already a novel of a Texags post, so I'll keep this brief- the dialogue sucks. Now, on to the ugly.

The Ugly-

I've kind of forgiven a lot of the elements I used to hate about this movie,( Anakin, the politics, etc), but there is one element that only gets worse with age. Like a baby bottle that has been lodged under a car seat in the Texas heat , it only gets more pungent and awful the more you discover and examine it. This would be Jar Jar Binks. Look, I kind of know what George Lucas was attempting here,( comic relief for kids amidst the boring politics), but damn is he awful. Hes so cringeworthy, even after seeing this film a ton of times, I still want to turn it off when he's on screen. I think it's hysterical the theory that Jar Jar was the real villain in that it hilifjted how badly the character was conceived from a story perspective that outright villainy is the only way to save Jar Jar as a character. Then orderline racism angle is another loegtimste gripe as well. I'm no SJW, but damn


Overall:

Frankly, there was more good here than I remember there being. Like others have stated, it was at least shot on film, had some cool ideas behind it, and had a vision attaches to it. Even if much of the movie doesn't work, you can tell the George Lucas wasn't half assing it. For that, I'll kind of give it the benefit of the doubt. Now, with Attack of the Clones, that's s different story. That's for next month though.

Rating:

** out of ****


AliasMan02
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YellowPot_97 said:

AliasMan02 said:

Render said:

I was always baffled why Lucas made the Jedi robes the same style as Obi-Wan's hermit robes. That means Obi-Wan did a very poor job of hiding away during his exile - he's literally still wearing the official uniform of the Jedi.

Edit: Plus they never explained the Chosen One prophecy in TPM. That should have been a main plot point - what it is, who wrote it, when? etc etc...

It's pretty clear in ANH that Kenobi was wearing the robes of a desert dweller, like Owen. The fact that they were "Jedi robes" is something that was invented in TPM. Exactly the sort of things it disregarded. It was weird.
Wrong



Fair enough. Invented for RotJ. Was definitely not the original intent
TXAG 05
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Another thing about TPM is that it was doomed before anyone ever saw it. The hype for this movie was unparalleled, the hype for TFA was nothing compared to it. In a time where your main source of movie information was Entertainment Tonight, Star Wars was every where, every news show, cover of every magazine, everywhere. It had no chance of living up to that hype, even if it had been the greatest movie every made, which it obviously wasn't.
 
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