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The Witcher (Netflix Series)

7,751 Views | 53 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by FightinTexasAg15
TCTTS
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When I said Polish, I wasn't talking about Polish Americans genius.

Yes, I know. Which why I then literally mentioned the country of Poland as well. Genius.

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So it's to expand the audience? Then explain LOTR and it's all white cast and why it did so well? These are some of the top grossing movies of all time so you can't tell me they weren't massively successful despite zero diversity in the cast.
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You really have no idea just how rabid The Witcher fanbase is do you? Had you even heard of it prior to Netflix saying they were going to do it?

First of all, I'm not saying that a fantasy film/series with an all white cast *can't* be massively successful. That wold be idiotic and obviously disproven. Again, you're missing my point. I'm saying that for a company like Netflix, they likely believe that they can simply increase their chances of viewership with a more diverse cast. Especially in 2019, considering it's a completely different playing field than the one LOTR was in 18 years ago, not only socially but also in how data and analytics now play into decisions on a much larger scale.

Either way, I don't care how rabid of a following The Witcher has, it hasn't reached anywhere near the cultural saturation LOTR had before those movies came out. And no, I'd never even heard of The Witcher before Cavill was cast, which only proves my point. I'd heard about LOTR and even A Song of Fire and Ice before those properties were adapted.

Still, I'm not saying there isn't a rabid fanbase for The Witcher, I'm simply saying that adapting LOTR in 2001 and The Witcher in 2019 are very different animals.

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Now all of these people are going to be working against you, so clearly this was a business decision.

And? This has been my exact point all along.
PatAg
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Why did you even bother to engage with a person using that name on the forums.
TCTTS
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Because he's using that name. Because of his BS. I realize it's utterly pointless, but sometimes I can't help myself from trying to use just a sliver of common sense and personal, hands on experience to try and combat the never-ending assumption on this board that Hollywood is nothing more than meeting after meeting of execs demanding "social justice" above all.
Deleted User
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PatAg said:

Why did you even bother to engage with a person using that name on the forums.


Have to 100% agree here, TCTTS. These trolls who've been spilling over from the Politics board seem hell-bent on spreading their "message" across all of TexAgs. I enjoy political debate, but some of them are just out to be antagonistic. Use that ignore feature and continue on with your day.
Deleted User
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KidDoc said:



What is frustrating is they do not need to introduce diverse human races to delve into racism and prejudice in that universe. Between the oppression of elves and dwarves and magic users in general that is so abundant in the universe that is plenty to play the race card without making main characters into different human colors.

I mean one of the main storylines in Witcher 2 is about elf oppression and rebellion!
The Triss casting is a bit off, I agree, just in looks. For all we know the actress could dye her hair red/wear a wig. My big observation is Cavil is too pretty at the moment as Geralt and needs the scars and eyes.

For those bemoaning social justice issues popping up into this show... y'all might want to step away now from the whole series. The books are the only source material (correct me if I'm wrong) for this one, and there's a lot of *literal* racism problems that occur. Non-humans (elves and dwarves) have been ostracized by those who dominate the land - humans. The Scoia'tael are a non-human guerrilla force who actively fight back against their human oppressors. This will not be some executive's choice about plot points dealing with social justice issues, but them actually being faithful to the books if they include it. Geralt generally attempted to remain neutral in a lot of situations, but the monsters in this series were not always literal monsters, but humans that he confronted for their cruelty.

As for the games, racism was was big component in the Witcher 1, was a major plot point in Witcher 2, and lightly touched upon in the Witcher 3. If your only experience with the Witcher universe is the Witcher 3, the Scoia'tael's story did not continue due to Geralt moving further north and the focus of the story became Ciri/a dimensional threat.

This series has always been complex with the author touching on multitude of real world issues. This won't be a monster hunt of the week kind of series (hopefully).
Socially liberal NPC 888
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JRC0811 said:

KidDoc said:



What is frustrating is they do not need to introduce diverse human races to delve into racism and prejudice in that universe. Between the oppression of elves and dwarves and magic users in general that is so abundant in the universe that is plenty to play the race card without making main characters into different human colors.

I mean one of the main storylines in Witcher 2 is about elf oppression and rebellion!
The Triss casting is a bit off, I agree, just in looks. For all we know the actress could dye her hair red/wear a wig. My big observation is Cavil is too pretty at the moment as Geralt and needs the scars and eyes.

For those bemoaning social justice issues popping up into this show... y'all might want to step away now from the whole series. The books are the only source material (correct me if I'm wrong) for this one, and there's a lot of *literal* racism problems that occur. Non-humans (elves and dwarves) have been ostracized by those who dominate the land - humans. The Scoia'tael are a non-human guerrilla force who actively fight back against their human oppressors. This will not be some executive's choice about plot points dealing with social justice issues, but them actually being faithful to the books if they include it. Geralt generally attempted to remain neutral in a lot of situations, but the monsters in this series were not always literal monsters, but humans that he confronted for their cruelty.

As for the games, racism was was big component in the Witcher 1, was a major plot point in Witcher 2, and lightly touched upon in the Witcher 3. If your only experience with the Witcher universe is the Witcher 3, the Scoia'tael's story did not continue due to Geralt moving further north and the focus of the story became Ciri/a dimensional threat.

This series has always been complex with the author touching on multitude of real world issues. This won't be a monster hunt of the week kind of series (hopefully).


Yes I know all of this. They accomplished social commentary using the actual species diversity in the material with elves abd dwarves. Now that the humans no longer represent eastern europe, it's a virtual guarantee that this level of nuance will be lost entirely and the show will make overt references to real world racism instead.

They didn't need to diversify the cast because these aspects were already built into the original material. Now it will just trivialize these things.
https://i.imgur.com/gys0RBa.png
Orko
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Quote:

Uhuh, so then explain why Black Panther had an all black cast if it's "just a business." I mean they are both fictional stories, so why not diversify the cast a bit and throw in some hispanics, asians, and whites into Black Panther?

This is a story literally written about Polish (a country that is 98% ethnic Polish with the other 2% being whites from other parts of Europe) folklore yet they can't even be bothered to stay faithful to the source material. The showrunner flat out lied about who they were going to cast and it's clear as day that they wanted to cast a minority for Ciri but didn't because they go an enormous amount of blowback from ethnic Polish and Slavs who were angry they were purposely washing away their culture. You have no idea just how much the Polish themselves like the original story as it's a source of national pride for many there along the same lines that LOTR and the Chronicles of Narnia are for the UK.

This has nothing to do with viewers because the overwhelming majority of the people who care about The Witcher are white nerds who either read the books or played the video games. They've already lost most of them and without this group the show is likely going to tank because it doesn't have the kind of name recognition of Game of Thrones or LOTR. In every single nerd or scifi forum that I read, people are railing against this garbage. Forced diversity for the sake of diversity ruins the material.
Once again, logic has shown that the "Hollywood doesn't care about social justice wokeness, only money" line is complete BS. Headshot post! Well done.

Remember, patriot, what they took from you. Your nation's identity, its religion, and its people are no more. Remember how we got here.
Evening Time Joke Man
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So we have forced diversification trumpeted as a business decision coupled with "its the current year argument". Man I can't wait to see what joys await us in 2019.

Really looking forward to seeing Charlie Hunnam play MLK JR.
Deleted User
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Socially liberal NPC 888 said:




Yes I know all of this. They accomplished social commentary using the actual species diversity in the material with elves abd dwarves. Now that the humans no longer represent eastern europe, it's a virtual guarantee that this level of nuance will be lost entirely and the show will make overt references to real world racism instead.

They didn't need to diversify the cast because these aspects were already built into the original material. Now it will just trivialize these things.
I'm going to wait for the show to actually come out to make my judgement. In the end it's a fantasy setting, so diversity of cast/skin color doesn't really matter. A diverse cast can still have nuance. I'll eat crow if all the diverse cast turns out to be the elves and dwarves. It's Grim's Fairy Tales meets GoT, so I'm just hoping for the same gritty feeling from the books and games.

I will say that if this thread turns into First Man Part Deux with all the political posturing over nothing it'll turn people away from discussing what could be a good series.
Socially liberal NPC 888
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JRC0811 said:

Socially liberal NPC 888 said:




Yes I know all of this. They accomplished social commentary using the actual species diversity in the material with elves abd dwarves. Now that the humans no longer represent eastern europe, it's a virtual guarantee that this level of nuance will be lost entirely and the show will make overt references to real world racism instead.

They didn't need to diversify the cast because these aspects were already built into the original material. Now it will just trivialize these things.
I'm going to wait for the show to actually come out to make my judgement. In the end it's a fantasy setting, so diversity of cast/skin color doesn't really matter. A diverse cast can still have nuance. I'll eat crow if all the diverse cast turns out to be the elves and dwarves. It's Grim's Fairy Tales meets GoT, so I'm just hoping for the same gritty feeling from the books and games.

I will say that if this thread turns into First Man Part Deux with all the political posturing over nothing it'll turn people away from discussing what could be a good series.


It's not that they will be elves and dwarves so much as the treatment of elves and dwarves will be warped and possibly eliminated in favor of racism based on skin color. It's clear as day the showrunners do not understand the source material at all.
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PatAg
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It's crystal clear!!
The Dog Lord
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Socially liberal NPC 888 said:

JRC0811 said:

Socially liberal NPC 888 said:




Yes I know all of this. They accomplished social commentary using the actual species diversity in the material with elves abd dwarves. Now that the humans no longer represent eastern europe, it's a virtual guarantee that this level of nuance will be lost entirely and the show will make overt references to real world racism instead.

They didn't need to diversify the cast because these aspects were already built into the original material. Now it will just trivialize these things.
I'm going to wait for the show to actually come out to make my judgement. In the end it's a fantasy setting, so diversity of cast/skin color doesn't really matter. A diverse cast can still have nuance. I'll eat crow if all the diverse cast turns out to be the elves and dwarves. It's Grim's Fairy Tales meets GoT, so I'm just hoping for the same gritty feeling from the books and games.

I will say that if this thread turns into First Man Part Deux with all the political posturing over nothing it'll turn people away from discussing what could be a good series.


It's not that they will be elves and dwarves so much as the treatment of elves and dwarves will be warped and possibly eliminated in favor of racism based on skin color. It's clear as day the showrunners do not understand the source material at all.

So glad you know exactly what will happen. I don't even have to watch the show now to see what the writers decide to do.
Socially liberal NPC 888
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The Dog Lord said:

Socially liberal NPC 888 said:

JRC0811 said:

Socially liberal NPC 888 said:




Yes I know all of this. They accomplished social commentary using the actual species diversity in the material with elves abd dwarves. Now that the humans no longer represent eastern europe, it's a virtual guarantee that this level of nuance will be lost entirely and the show will make overt references to real world racism instead.

They didn't need to diversify the cast because these aspects were already built into the original material. Now it will just trivialize these things.
I'm going to wait for the show to actually come out to make my judgement. In the end it's a fantasy setting, so diversity of cast/skin color doesn't really matter. A diverse cast can still have nuance. I'll eat crow if all the diverse cast turns out to be the elves and dwarves. It's Grim's Fairy Tales meets GoT, so I'm just hoping for the same gritty feeling from the books and games.

I will say that if this thread turns into First Man Part Deux with all the political posturing over nothing it'll turn people away from discussing what could be a good series.


It's not that they will be elves and dwarves so much as the treatment of elves and dwarves will be warped and possibly eliminated in favor of racism based on skin color. It's clear as day the showrunners do not understand the source material at all.

So glad you know exactly what will happen. I don't even have to watch the show now to see what the writers decide to do.
Or you know, I could just go to the writers and see what they think about the situation:




Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be totally respectable to Polish folklore. Apparently Black Panther was real or something.

The show is going to be social justice wasteland.
https://i.imgur.com/gys0RBa.png
hunter2012
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I have a question, you mention it being a business decision to include a diverse class. Is there statistical data that proves that a diverse supporting class improves ratings higher than a cast that is faithful to source material?

In fact I would think the opposite is even more true that if social justice is force-fed over plot then conservatives will turn it off and you'd be cutting a potential audience in half. Isn't this what killed "Sense 8"?

I would think casting and storylining as close to source material as possible has proven to get the largest audience possible. Game of Thrones has only a few "diverse cast members" and yet it might be the most popular show of all time. How many minorities watch for those few cast members? How many youtube videos were posted of fans of all colors reacting strongly to the red wedding(all white characters) vs the black bodyguard that got assassinated with Doran Martell? Why weren't they invested in the black character if that's "who they can relate with"

I largely agree with the posters above that there needs to be the nuanced racism as a theme in the series(man vs nonman rather than black vs white). Quite frankly the business notion that a diverse cast is needed for viewers to relate to that race sounds quite racist to me. Am I not allowed to relate to a black character that is true to their source material? Are we assuming then that a black viewer won't watch unless if they can relate to a black character?

I would be highly interested in seeing the data of viewers that would pick up a show according to a diverse cast "that they can relate to" vs viewers that would drop or not even start a show if they are going to be force fed the same political issues they face everyday. Seeing how Witcher is in the Fantasy genre thus highly escapist, I doubt it will play out well in the long run. Which is sad because the depth and the universe for the Witcher can make for a long running series that matches even Game of Thrones, there are less defined human characters but more fantasy races.

Sadly this cast made me go from excited to skeptical because I see force fed themes which takes up screen time and ultimately the plot from excellent source material will suffer from it.
TCTTS
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First of all, again, I feel like I need to make clear that I'm not saying I agree with the practice of over-diversifying everything, or that it should be done on this project, especially. I know jack sh*t about this series. My ONLY point was to say that Hollywood doesn't sit around in shareholder, executive, or creative meetings trying to come up with ways to champion "social justice" and then shove it down viewer's throats. Are there writers, directors, producers, and showrunners who believe strongly in certain social justice causes? Absolutely. Are there some in power who prioritize those causes more than others? No Doubt. But by and large, that desire-to-include is like 90th on the priority list in most cases, and it's certainly not discussed behind-the-scenes in the way many of you seem to think Hollywood operates. If it is, again, it's usually in pursuit of DOLLARS, as misguided as that pursuit might be.

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Is there statistical data that proves that a diverse supporting class improves ratings higher than a cast that is faithful to source material?

I don't study this topic in any way, nor have ever sought out or seen statistical data proving one way or the other. All I know is that Hollywood, in certain instances, absolutely believes that it can attract a wider, broader audience with a wider, broader spectrum of races represented in certain projects. That said, I'll ask again, since no one answered: re: the Netflix article I linked to on the previous page. Does anyone REALLY believe that sounds like a company who gives a rat's ass about "social justice"? Whatever Netflix is doing, they almost assuredly have statistical data to back up their decisions, and I'd say this situation is no different.

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In fact I would think the opposite is even more true that if social justice is force-fed over plot then conservatives will turn it off and you'd be cutting a potential audience in half.

I would argue that, considering the worldwide reach of this show, you're probably overestimating the conservatives-who-turn-off-force-fed-social-justice audience. I'm not saying that it's not a large audience - it is - but first of all, not *all* American conservatives automatically turn something like this off, and secondly, again, since this show is meant to have worldwide appeal, I would venture to say that foreign conservatives probably aren't as intolerant of or sensitive to stuff like this as many American conservatives, though I could be wrong. Either way, "half" of Netflix's audience is a bit of a stretch.

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Quite frankly the business notion that a diverse cast is needed for viewers to relate to that race sounds quite racist to me. Am I not allowed to relate to a black character that is true to their source material? Are we assuming then that a black viewer won't watch unless if they can relate to a black character?

I feel like you're being purposely reductive here. Of course any audience of any race can relate to any character of any race. Literally no one is saying that a white audience member can't relate to a black character or that a black audience member can't relate to a white character. The argument is that, in certain instances, for instance, a black person is simply more likely to relate to a black person on screen.

For all of the "youtube videos of fans of all colors reacting strongly to the red wedding" and the like, you can find just as many videos, articles, tweets, etc. of, say, Asians expressing how moving and in some instances even life changing it is to finally see someone like themselves featured so prominently and in such a headlined fashion as in Crazy Rich Asians, or with someone like Rose in The Last Jedi (never mind how terrible many think her character was, you can find myriad reactions online of Asians moved to tears of joy by her prominent inclusion in such a massive movie). This year especially, I don't know how many times I've seen members from the black and Asian audiences moved beyond description by finally seeing their respective races featured and celebrated in such big ways, in huge hit movies. It's a very real thing that I would never dismiss, if only because I'm a white male who's been used to seeing white males prominently featured in the vast majority of most movies and TV shows in my lifetime and long before.
The Dog Lord
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I see no mention of The Witcher there. I don't know if you know this, but a lot of people can separate their personal feelings from their work. Even if they were to insert something about human racial differences, there is still nothing to indicate that it will surpass the inter-species themes. You might end up being right, but there's nothing to indicate that at this point.
hph6203
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Some people just look at the world and wanna ***** about it. The Witcher fans were gonna ***** about the series whether the actors had dark skin or not.

White people have been playing minorities in movies forever, think it's okay if the opposite happens sometimes. Who. Cares.
LihaiAg06
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Anyone watch the 1st season? Thoughts?
PatAg
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LihaiAg06 said:

Anyone watch the 1st season? Thoughts?
https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/3036484/1
FightinTexasAg15
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Eskel, Lambert and Coen have been cast for season 2

https://mashable.com/article/netflix-the-witcher-eskel-lambert-coen-casting/
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